[sans-culotte]

He's too loony left, which is a great shame.

He's really not far left by any standard. It's the UK system that is loony and far off from the world's political compass and makes a run-of-the-mill social democract appear "far left".

[ingliz]

Wow, he has even lost a huge amount of support from members.

If that is true, why aren't the 'Red Tories' following the rules, putting up a challenger/s, and balloting the membership?

[Seeker8]

I'd rather a serious Corbyn than someone like Boris Johnson who gets votes by acting like a posh buffoon. Waiting lists for kidney operations and military aggression are serious issues and I think the people are sick of smirking politicians laughing at their own jokes.

There seems to be a love for eccentric posh people in England. I don't get it, he is such a phony.

[Potemkin]

There seems to be a love for eccentric posh people in England. I don't get it, he is such a phony.

Most posh British people tend to be stupid, pompous and arrogant. It therefore makes a pleasant change when they are eccentric, witty and affable. Unfortunately, Boris Johnson is not only eccentric, witty and affable, but also happens to be a raging egomaniac who cares nothing for the lives of ordinary people. In other words, he turned out to be just another posh git.

[Atlantis]

Or he may have decided that the only way to save the Labour Party is to allow it to split, ...

That could open the way for a far-left/far-right alliance as we have seen in Greece and other countries. That does make a lot of sense since both have to serve the xenophobic section of the electorate.

Corbyn could stop pretending that he likes the EU. That in itself would be a tremendous relief.

All this Labour infighting was unnecessary. It only started because everybody thought there would be a snap election before Art. 50 was triggered. But now it seems the Tory MPs are glued to their seats and don't want to risk it in a snap election. There'll be plenty of time to select a new leader before the next GE, as probably was the plan all along.

[KlassWar]

Corbyn dug his own grave when he refused to endorse Mandatory Reselection to root out and purge all right-wing Labor MPs. He refused to do that, so the Blairites have had the time to try and regain control of the party. A split on the party could never be avoided, and given the infestation of right wing vermin preventing the split was not even desirable.

Two things can be done: Either kick the Blairites out or gather the left wing people and split from the Blairite insects. Having the right wing of the party beaten to a pulp by the membership would be ideal, but it can't be done safely unless you're in government and have a modicum of autocratic power.

[Beren]

I don't see the problem with Corbyn, as far as I can judge he's decent. Definitely decent compared to Cameron, Johnson, Farage, etc. He could have done more for the Remain campaign perhaps. He's a leftist, but isn't it Labour is supposed to be? The Blairites should fill up the Liberal Democratic Party, if it still exists, or establish a new one. Blair could be their leader himself, as he seems to reactivate recently.

[Decky]

You really know nothing about UK politics if you think anyone would want to join a political party lead by Blair. It would be the kiss of death, it wouldn't get one single MP.

[Beren]

:lol:

You really know nothing about UK politics if you think anyone would want to join a political party lead by Blair. It would be the kiss of death, it wouldn't get one single MP.

Well, I meant to be sarcastic rather than for real. However, if everyone calls them Blairites, why act as if they weren't?

[Cromwell]

Two things can be done: Either kick the Blairites out or gather the left wing people and split from the Blairite insects. Having the right wing of the party beaten to a pulp by the membership would be ideal, but it can't be done safely unless you're in government and have a modicum of autocratic power.

I disagree. The most politically expedient thing for the left-wing of the Labour party to do would be to goad the plotters into splitting, on their own initiative.

Purging the party could lead to a public backlash and forming their own splinter group could deprive them of much needed union monies (the trade unions are certain to stay on with the continuity Labour party, regardless of who takes control, at least until the next general election).

Corbyn is in a precarious position and one misstep could spell doom for the hard-left. The plotters, on the other hand, have some room to manoeuvre, since they're in control of the narrative.

[ingliz]

The plotters, on the other hand, have some room to manoeuvre, since they're in control of the narrative.

Oldham West: Labour vote up 7.3%.

Ogmore: Labour down 0.3%

Sheffield Hillsborough and Brightside: Labour vote up 5.9%

Tooting: Labour vote up 8.7%

[Decky]

Because acting like they are not really Blairites is what Blairites have done for their whole history. They only got into power by tricking real Labour voters into thinking that were left wing. Blairites could not win on their own, people who love Tory policies will vote for the real thing rather than imitation. Who is the natural Blaite voter base?:lol:

[Beren]

:eh: Because acting like they are not really Blairites is what Blairites have done for their whole history. They only got into power by tricking real Labour voters into thinking that were left wing. Blairites could not win on their own, people who love Tory policies will vote for the real thing rather than imitation. Who is the natural Blaite voter base?:lol:

I understand how it worked as long as Blair was standing, but how could it still work now? Just because Blair is not their explicit leader, everyone should know by now that he's still the one behind the whole thing actually.

[Decky]

You are really overestimating the intelligence of the British electorate by an order of magnitude Beran.

[Beren]

You are really overestimating the intelligence of the British electorate by an order of magnitude Beran.

So you mean to say the British public don't even realise they're Blairists?

[Decky]

The Blairte thing only worked because of the infiltration of the Labour party. That allowed them to steal the traditional socialist Labour voters who always vote Labour because of what the party used to be not what it is now.

Millions of the people who voted new Labour were voting Labour because of its socialist achievements from the distant past back when it was working class party. Trust me on this, an independent Blairite party standing on its own two feet without the working class votes that Labour automatically gets would be even less successful than the Lib Dems.

[Potemkin]

Millions of the people who voted new Labour were voting Labour because of its socialist achievements from the distant past back when it was working class party. Trust me on this, an independent Blairite party standing on its own two feet without the working class votes that Labour automatically gets would be even less successful than the Lib Dems.

Precisely. David Owen was the early 1980s equivalent of Tony Blair. He couldn't take over the Labour Party, so he left and founded his own party, the SDP, which provided some amusement on the sidelines of British politics in the 1980s but ultimately got nowhere. Blair didn't leave the Labour Party, he took it over, and rode on its back to electoral success. Outside the Labour Party, Blair would have been about as successful as David Owen, which is to say he would have been an abject failure. Decky is right about this.

[Decky]

And about everything.

[Potemkin]

Indeed, Decky. With the exception of the issue of dressing cats up as clowns, but let's leave that aside for now.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

The problem with Corbyn is that he clearly lacks basic political instincts. This is not restricted to today's politics, but it has always been a fundamental requirement for political leaders in democracies, monarchies and dictatorships alike. For the latter two political systems, if the leader lacks this, then his advisers/staff may be able to make up for it and even rule/lead in his stead to some extent, but in today's democracies a leader cannot be shielded from the public in the same way.

Corbyn is blind to how day to day politics works and I don't think he's particularly interested in learning it. He needlessly opens up flanks for his opponents to attack him. It beggars belief that he seems to think that the statement he made at the antisemitism event was appropriate. The Labour MPs who want him to leave are right that he is a liability, although the time they chose to challenge him still shows that they are also idiots, just in a different way.