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#14705305
One of the reason for the situation is German media. For years they reported the events in the ME from the Arab point of view, whitewashing all their deeds, blaming their terror on the west. No wonder Germans caught off guard and let them in. After all if the narrative is to excuse every fault on the West, why should they attack Germany who never did them anything wrong? German Arabophilia is very long lasting. For the elite it started in the late 19th century but for general public it was established during the war and Nazi "anti imperialist" (i.e. anti British) propaganda, the 68ers didn't invent anything.
#14705306
night games wrote:German Arabophilia is very long lasting.


That is complete BS. Germans have next to no connection with the Arab world. A handful of German archaeologists got exited about archaeological digs in the Arab world, but German romanticism of the 19th century focused on ancient Greece not on Arabia. Quite on the contrary, it was the French and the British who got all balmy about all the exoticism in their new colonial possessions in the Arab world.

It's amazing how hell-bent some are on producing an narrative so completely and obviously contrary to what actually happened.
#14705308
Who talk about romanticism? The German had very strong ties with the Ottomans, and they were the first to push them to declare jihad in the first world war. During WW2 it was very established anti imperialist propaganda. Many German idealists truly believed they fight for the freedom of the color people as well. The racism was narrowed only against European foes; Jews, Slavs and Roma. To win the support of Muslims, a Nazi memorandum suggested that German policy and propaganda should draw on the Islamic faith. Such a policy would be particularly promising in Arab areas, as “the Arab Muslim” was a "de facto fanatic.”
Last edited by night games on 25 Jul 2016 10:21, edited 3 times in total.
#14705311
Tichy's Einblick wrote:The utopist red-green roots of the migration madness

For Green top politicians, unlimited, uncontrolled immigration is not a challenging crisis for society, but a happy occasion to be celebrated. Why? Because they hope that the flood of migrants will spark the revolution that failed to materialize.

Kathrin Göhring-Eckard, parliamentary party leader of Bündnis90/Die Grünen, said at the conference of the federal delegates:

This country is going to change drastically, and I tell you, I'm looking forward to that, because I already witnessed a peaceful revolution. This one could be the one that makes our country better.

Some weeks later, the more sober (compared to the gushing parliamentary leader) federal chairwoman Simone Peter quoted specific numbers for the desired change of Germany: another million of migrants is to be absorbed in 2016.

(...)

If one wants to understand the attitude of the Green party in the migrant crisis, one has to look at its historical origin. Its founding goes back to an initiative of Socialists and Communists in the late seventies. The Left was frustrated because it hadn't been able to reach its objectives in the "red decade" (a term coined by the Maoist Gerd Koenen). At the start of the "red decade", the Student Union (SDS) rebelled against the establishment. After its disintegration, a broad spectrum of leftist groups sprang from its remains. Main actors were the DKP (German Communist Party) as a proxy of the SED, the Stamokap-faction (state-monopoly capitalism) of the youth organisation of the SPD, and two maoist groups: The communist alliance of West Germany, where Winfrid Kretschmann's (now head of the state of Baden-Württemberg) origins lie, and the Communist Alliance/North, the political home of Jürgen Trittin.

(...)

The Left was fragmented and quarreling with each other, but all left organisation had one thing in common: the derived their political convictions from the writings of Marx and Engels (...) Karl Marx is not only the author of the communist manifesto. He also wrote "Das Kapital". In "Kapital", he provides scientific proof for his claims; not so in the communist manifest. As author of the manisfest, Marx isn't a scientist, but a political agitator who doesn't provide the slightest trace of proof for his thesis that the "classless society" has to be a "historical inevitability". The eloquent author relies solely on the power of his suggestive language. The man who derided religion as "opium for the people" acted as religious founder himself. He found numerous evangelists who revered him like a god and went to turn that utopia into reality.

(...)

One of the few successes of the Left was the anti-nuclear movement. With a campaign against nuclear power, leftist organisers managed to mobilised people beyond their own ranks. The comrades therefore decided to market the product "environmentalism" and to take the products "socialism" and "proletarian world revolution" off the shelves. They founded the party "The Greens" and from there on, didn't speak aloud of socialist paroles, though they still carried them in their hearts.

(...)

Until mid-2015, environmentalism, energy revolution, globalisation and social justice were at the top of the red/green agenda. Then came the migrant storm. What an opportunity to present old junk in a new package!

The redgreen romantic is yet again chasing a phantom. He goes into rapture over the utopia of a "multicultural society". He dreams of a country without borders, a world without cultural conflicts, a community that erases not only cultural, but also gender differences; a land that becomes more diverse by taking in millions of men with beards and women in black garments. All are received with open arms. The state feeds them with generous social security benefits. Those who have "lived here longer" (a redgreen euphemism for native Germans) are exstatic because they have been "gifted with new people" (quote of a Green politician) and happily share their hard-earned money with the migrants. This is it, the blueprint for the utopia of the 21st century, for Göhring-Eckart's "better Germany".

Multiculturalism sounds modern, is somehow "hip" and likes to dress up in "tolerance" and "openness". In reality, it's the repeated attempt to force dusty 19th century ideas on the citizens, ideas that have already failed a hundred times in the face of reality


Complete article here.
#14705313
night games wrote:Who talk about romanticism?


That the Arabs and/or Ottomans facing the aggression of the colonial powers had contacts with the Kaiserreich is only natural, as two parties, even if they have nothing else in common, will always try to ally against a common enemy. Just like the Irish approached the Nazis during the war. And why would the British have the right to prevent Germany from having diplomatic ties with third countries? The only answer can be that the spirit of the empire is alive and kicking in your thinking.

The fact remains that these attempts never went anywhere, which is the opposite of the very substantial involvement of the French and British colonial powers in the Arab world that is causing havoc until the present day. To pinpoint the failed attempts of the Kaiserreich in the Arab world in order to cover up British and French colonialism is intellectually dishonest.
#14705332
The Syrian attacker of Ansbach was scheduled for deportation to Bulgaria after his claim to asylum had failed because that's how he entered the Schengen area.

All illegal immigrants entered Germany via other Schengen countries and Germany does have the right to deport them back to these countries, if it decided to.

The left and greens still oppose the detention of illegal immigrants, which makes it virtually impossible to deport them, since they'll just disappear from sight before the police comes around. I think the latest incident will get the political process moving to get tougher on illegal immigrants. That is needed to give refugees the protection they need.

Edit: just to confirm what I said. Here is a statement by the police union:

"Wir haben es offenbar mit einem Mann zu tun, der schon in der Vergangenheit massiv aufgefallen ist. Eigentlich konnte man doch die Uhr danach stellen, dass da noch mehr passiert. Es erschließt sich mir daher nicht, warum so jemand, der in Deutschland nur geduldet wurde, weiterhin frei herumlief. Ich meine: Wir müssen dringend Abschiebehaftanstalten wieder in Betrieb nehmen. Wer bei uns schwere Straftaten begeht, darf den Ausgang seines Asylverfahrens nicht in Freiheit abwarten. Der Rechtsstaat muss mehr tun, als nur die Personalien eines Täters aufzunehmen."


Roughly: "The man had a massive record of incidents. It was almost certain that he would cause further problems. It is incomprehensible that somebody like this was allowed to be in freedom after his asylum request had been rejected. We urgently need deportation centers. Somebody who committed serious crimes should not be allowed to await his deportation in freedom."

The left and the greens believe that everybody claiming asylum is an angel. They effectively prevent a sensible refugee and immigration policy. No doubt, the left and the greens will be punished in the elections.

Edit 2: In fact, the man could have been deported to either Austria or Bulgaria. Both waved him through.
Last edited by Atlantis on 25 Jul 2016 12:08, edited 2 times in total.
#14705334
True refugees dont make it to germany. They are displaced within the country or to a neighbour.

Those that make it to europe do often come from countrys at war but are usually from the safer citys and have quite a lot of money. Many are not even from a country at war but from algeria or pakistan and just lie about their nationality.

Germany knows this but cant admit it. The solution is to simply get the balkland route countrys to 'do a hungary'. That same thing that germans and liberal europe where so shocked and appalled by last year. Very dishonest really and all about image.
#14705339
The Germans weren't shocked by the closure of the Balkan route. The German government correctly opposed letting Greece in the lurch. As to closing the Balkan route, I have proposed this to Greek members of this forum who threatened to flood Germany with refugees and jihadists more than a year ago.

Already forgotten?
#14705343
Atlantis wrote:That is needed to give refugees the protection they need.
Not to mention (of course not!) the people who have been living here longer (aka Germans)! But hey, of course the protection of the helots isn't our first priority...
#14705344
The Germans weren't shocked by the closure of the Balkan route. The German government correctly opposed letting Greece in the lurch. As to closing the Balkan route, I have proposed this to Greek members of this forum who threatened to flood Germany with refugees and jihadists more than a year ago.

Already forgotten?


I havnt forgot anything. Many of us knew this was a bad idea while others thought it was great and were keen to signal this to everyone. Some of us even started threads to show how much of a success the move was......

It was an emotional response that started dead on with the picture of the dead syrian child.

It ended with the equally emotional image of the cologne sexual assaults.
#14705351
layman wrote:It was an emotional response that started dead on with the picture of the dead syrian child.


On the contrary, you are trying to emotionalize the issue by propagating a false narrative.

The basic problem is that it is impossible to control a maritime border without the agreement of both sides. A land-border can easily be closed by a unilateral decision as in Macedonia. However, to close the Mediterranean we would have to get the friendly cooperation from governments in countries like Libya, which your RAF was kind enough to bomb out of existence.

We either cooperate with Mediterranean countries to control the maritime borders or we close the Balkans and the Alps, which would effectively cut the EU in two. I can understand that the latter solution is the option favored by the Brits, but continental Europeans aren't ready to through the South of Europe to the dogs.

What is truly galling is that while the Brits are most cynical about the South of Europe they pretend to defend the South against the EU. But you'll be disillusioned on this count soon enough, because continental Europeans aren't as dumb as the Brits imagine them to be. Your deceit will backfire as always. Bring on the Brexit!

I have posted a thread of how the refugee policy in Germany is working well: by declaring the Western Balkans as safe, refugees from the Balkans have been reduced from about 30% to near zero. Next will be the Maghreb states, but, unlike the UK where things are decided in backroom deals, we are in a democracy which requires a political process involving the left and the greens, as stated above.
#14705352
The US provides a solid long-term case study of combined maritime and land border control. If the European Identity Travel Card delivers passage without let or hindrance then checking for the ID is not an infringement on any individuals EU freedom of movement. The purpose of an ID is for it to be checked. The real issue is an EU budget for delivering domestic security.

Emotional anti-British rhetoric is off-topic.

night games wrote:BBC cover up


The blast in Germany is reported as a German blast, just as a past bombing in London was reported as a London bombing. Neither is a misrepresentation of fact.

I checked your link, which contains emotion-driven comments claiming the BBC portrays the bomber as a victim. I have read the BBC report and I do not think it validates those emotional claims. What I see is a reporting of facts without apportioning blame.

BBC wrote:The 27-year-old man, who faced deportation to Bulgaria, detonated the device after being refused entry to the music festival, Bavarian officials say.
...
The Syrian man entered Germany two years ago and had his asylum claim rejected a year ago, Bavarian Interior Minister Joachim Herrmann said. He had been given leave to stay temporarily given the situation in his home country and provided with accommodation in Ansbach, Mr Herrmann added. A federal interior ministry spokesman, Tobias Plate, confirmed the man had faced deportation to Bulgaria. "Syrians cannot at the moment be deported to Syria, but that doesn't mean that Syrians overall cannot be deported," he told reporters in Berlin. Mr Herrmann said he was "incensed" by the attack which, he continued, demonstrated the need to "strengthen controls on those we have living in our country".
Last edited by Glen on 25 Jul 2016 13:59, edited 1 time in total.
#14705355
Glen wrote:The blast in Germany is reported as a German blast, just as a past bombing in London was reported as a London bombing. Neither is a misrepresentation of fact. It would be more appropriate to post your objection on a learn English forum.


I think he was alluding more to fact the headline suggests the Syrian was a victim, rather than the perpetrator.
#14705360
Thompson_NCL wrote:I think he was alluding more to fact the headline suggests the Syrian was a victim, rather than the perpetrator.


BBC articles are repeatedly revised during live events to reflect the facts as they are understood at each moment in time, and initial versions tend to be light on detail. The BBC has since changed the headline to "Syrian blows himself up in Germany", and at no point did I see the BBC refer to the bomber as the victim. "Syrian migrant dies in blast" remains a statement of fact, and the earlier tone reflects what was known when the news was breaking.

BBC news deliver breaking news rather than peer-reviewed academic articles, and it needs to be read in its correct context.
Last edited by Glen on 25 Jul 2016 14:10, edited 1 time in total.
#14705362
Glen wrote:BBC articles are repeatedly revised during live events to reflect the facts as they are understood at each moment in time, and initial versions tend to be light on detail. The BBC has since changed the headline to "Syrian blows himself up in Germany", and at no point did I see the BBC refer to the bomber as the victim.


I don't agree with his claim there was a cover up, but the headline he quoted was poorly worded.

I'm aware that headlines are revised. Are you aware that water is wet? It's good we can exchange our knowledge of the world.
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