EU: Greece fined for subsidising ThyssenKrupp - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14705575
noemon wrote:I am saying that Samaras was wrangled by the Germans to drop the charges against German companies and Samaras is being paraded by the Germans as the success that was Greece before Tsipras came along and ruined the party. During Samaras tenure Greece attracted foreign investors and bids to buy Greek bonds were oversubscribed.


Samaras and Tsipras represented democratic Greece in its entirety. Their actions are accepted by the Greek executive and Greek judiciary. The manner in which any leader is removed is a reflection of the robustness, transparency and lawfulness of the country as a whole. For example, the USA retained its credibility by impeaching Nixon.

noemon wrote:This shows what kind of back-room deals are being conducted during the crisis negotiations as well as how easy it actually is for normality to return if there is token goodwill.


We know the EU operates on backroom deals, and backroom deals are a source of distrust. I'm not suggesting that backroom deals cannot have a good intention, but I am suggesting that encouraging secrecy protects corruption.

noemon wrote:To say that the scandal never happened and it is merely a figment of our imagination?


Of course not, the scandal happened, and the state was obliged to enforce its rule of law without being prompted by an international organisation such as the EU.

noemon wrote:Are you a bit confused there?


Your OP focusses on the size of one scandal, and my immediate response was to highlight that it is one example in a catalogue of recent Greek scandals.

noemon wrote:3 very major projects/investments have been announced in Greece this year, the Ellinikon Project in Athens, the further privatisation of the Piraeus port to COSCO which will eventually turn Piraeus into one of the busiest ports in Europe and SAP has recently announced that its first Data Science Delivery Hub will be created in Greece.


The fact remains that Greece entertains dirty deals, and nobody knows what backroom deals were struck in negotiating these new projects. They might be clean deals, but any of them could be harbouring another scandal.
#14705630
Glen wrote:Samaras and Tsipras represented democratic Greece in its entirety. Their actions are accepted by the Greek executive and Greek judiciary. The manner in which any leader is removed is a reflection of the robustness, transparency and lawfulness of the country as a whole. For example, the USA retained its credibility by impeaching Nixon.


Samaras resigned 2 years in and was then impeached by his own delegates. You see in Greece when the PM resigns, we usually go to snap elections, unlike in some other more "transparent" countries. ;)

We know the EU operates on backroom deals, and backroom deals are a source of distrust. I'm not suggesting that backroom deals cannot have a good intention, but I am suggesting that encouraging secrecy protects corruption.
Of course not, the scandal happened, and the state was obliged to enforce its rule of law without being prompted by an international organisation such as the EU.


Which is what I said.

Your OP focusses on the size of one scandal, and my immediate response was to highlight that it is one example in a catalogue of recent Greek scandals.


No as I said you are probably confused, you claimed that I have not presented Greece as credible, I have presented the news as they are, and I am the one who informed you how the OP story is connected to these scandals, not you. The Greeks involved in the scandals are already in prison.

How did you want me to present the news? Was I supposed to present them in a way that saves the reputation of the Greek politicians involved in them? :?:

The fact remains that Greece entertains dirty deals, and nobody knows what backroom deals were struck in negotiating these new projects. They might be clean deals, but any of them could be harbouring another scandal.


TAIPED or HRDAF is a transparent organisation that has been formed to manage Greek property and privatisation in a transparent manner.

The fact is that all things considered, Greece is doing quite well.
#14705643
We will agree on exposed facts from history, its the present undisclosed condition that we don't perceive in the same way.

Full credit to new agencies being created. My concern is that the system that permitted individuals to become corrupt, is the same system that did not recover illegal funds from benefiting parties. It follows that the system continues to be a threat.
#14705645
Glen wrote:The system that permitted individuals to become corrupt, is the same system that did not recover illegal funds from benefiting parties.


Question, what kind of system allowed for these individuals to become corrupt:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 64105.html

And what kind of system knighted Sir Philipp Green:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 53721.html
#14705695
In ethical business, the question is not whether or not its wrong to take candy from a baby. The critical question is, what do you do when you discover that you have taken candy from a baby?

There is a significant difference between your cited British transgressions, and the Greek examples posted earlier. Those examples from the UK show it taking responsibility without external guidance. In contrast, Greece needed to be corrected by an international organisation.

I am certain you can find better UK examples.
#14705709
Why did the British state recover money from anybody? All it did was to take the culprits to court which is also what the Greek state did.

I am certain you can find better UK examples. There is a significant difference between your cited British transgressions, and the Greek examples posted earlier.


There is a significant difference indeed, I am Greek and posted Greek dirty laundry while you are British trying to undermine British dirty laundry posturing as more "transparent" and conducive to "ethical business".

I would be expecting from you to post the better examples. ;)

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