[KlassWar]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/24/frenchman-in-australia-kills-british-backpacker-and-injures-man/

The religion of Peace(TM) strikes again. But of course we have nothing to fear from all the Real!Muslims. Obviously this one was a Fake!Muslim.

Wahhabi zealots are going berserk: Obviously the solution is to brutalize and suppress the muslim community at large while allowing wahhabi petro-satrapies to buy and run all the mosques and Islamic centers.

What could possibly go wrong?

I'm being serious: The Muslims who go jihadi belong to specific sects, and those sects are sponsored by Gulf satraps. If control of Western islamic organizations was taken away from those crazies they couldn't use them to Wahhabize the local muslims. You can't tackle the problem of Islamic zealotry without smashing petro-wahhabism.

[anasawad]

@layman
Depends on how you look at it.
After the war in Iraq, mainly the US has switched to using proxies in most of the times.
That doesn't mean its not there.


Now don't get me wrong. We hold our fair share of crimes as well. And in the last decades specially my people (literally my community).
But atleast we don't go on and start blurbing about how we're innocent and don't do anything, we know what we are and we don't mind it if it will lead to achieving our goals. atleast the goals of the elders being our leaders that is.
But as said in my first post here. If every little event happened, even if one person got killed like here, a thread is opened and everyone start yapping about the "evil muslims" and terrorism.
I assure you there is much more than can be used to point at the core governments of the west, and even most terrorist groups in it self are proxies for those governments as well, and thats is admitted by your governments. So people should stop the hypocracy.

Heck if we were to talk about the terrorist groups in Syria and Iraq currently alone that are supported and armed by western governments and how much civillians they've killed. That alone will make all casualties in Europe sound petty.

@KlassWar
How could you even mention the Wahabis ?
Those are Anglo's puppies. You cant possibly be asking for them to be stripped of their positions or even remotely fought.

[ThirdTerm]

Smail Ayad, a French national, may have fallen in love with the victim. Mia Ayliffe-Chung was working as a waitress in Australia on the final leg of her world tour but she's a model at home. The victim is half Asian and half British. Ayad did not have any known links to the Islamic State terror group and investigators would look at mental health or drug misuse factors.



POLICE are investigating whether a French backpacker had developed a romantic obsession with English tourist Mia Ayliffe-Chung, who he allegedly stabbed to death while shouting “Allahu akbar”. The Australian Federal Police yesterday joined the investigation but it is understood detectives are now looking at whether Ayad had developed an obsession with the 21-year-old waitress and model.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/cops-p ... 50be72ea77

[Thompson_NCL]

Really ?
Across the past centuries and until now. Specifically Britain, France, Spain and the US have been a major player in majority of wars.

I speak of the present, not the past. But if you want to look at the past, why stop at the past few centuries? Islam has been waging war on civilisation since it was first conceived by an illiterate paedophile bandit. If you want to get more specific than that, provide actual evidence.

The US is a leading part of 9 out of 10 wars and conflicts in the past century. And mostly was funding and supporting in the 1 left.

Please cite all conflicts in the last century and annotate which ones involved the US as a primary party.

Most terrorist groups are not only supported but founded by western nations. Mainly the US and Britain.

Conspiracy theory nonsense.

And to add, the majority of nations, groups, places around the world were at one point or anther in the past 2 centuries attacked by either the US or UK.

Le pretend that is true. What has that got to do with the present?

[anasawad]

I speak of the present, not the past. But if you want to look at the past, why stop at the past few centuries? Islam has been waging war on civilisation since it was first conceived by an illiterate paedophile bandit. If you want to get more specific than that, provide actual evidence.

Well, for a start, Muslims have only been at wars in mideast, north Africa and some of central Asia.
Not even close to be compared to Europeans.
And war on civilization ? Kid Muslim world was the center of civilization for most of the past millenia.

And ofcourse, if we were to compare the number of wars. You also top that score against every other civilization in history.

Please cite all conflicts in the last century and annotate which ones involved the US as a primary party.

Well, in the major conflicts of the post WW2 period. Which were the Korean war, vietnam, Cuban war, Dominican republic, Greneda, Lebanon, Panama, Gulf war, somalia, haiti, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, and Iraq.
Guess what. The US was a major part in all of them except Lebanon.

In overall, here is a list of US military operations outside its borders.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_ ... .80.931949

Heck, it almost beats Britain to the number of military ventures. underline almost.

Conspiracy theory nonsense.

Ofcourse it is.
For Al-qaeda, everyone at first thought the US is founding and funding and supporting it, even the news papers were publishing pics of Al-qaeda founding members as heros and freedom fighters.
But things got too high, so the US government confirmed it, because you know, everyone knows the government is always lying. So by confirming it the people will know it didn't do it.
And ISIS. ISIS is a mix of two groups that the US openly founded and funded. a branch of Al-qaeda, US founded. And a branch of Jabhat al Nusra, also openly funded and armed by the US, only stopped a while back when there became too much attention that the US is sending arms to islamists.
BTW, also Jabhat al Nusra is the same one everyone saw its members being treated in Israeli hospitals on the news.

OMG what nonsense this conspiracy theories. Even the god damn news channels and governments are now spreading this shit.

Le pretend that is true. What has that got to do with the present?

It is true, just read a history book, any history book, really its in all of them.

Its related because it still happening. And because you westerners are still acting like your angels when you're no where near being so.

[skinster]

I think drone strikes are generally aimed at combatants - not civilians.

You are more than delusional if you think most civilian casualtys are from western air strikes. .....

Is there any point of asking for evidence of such a claim ?

Drone Strikes:

Pakistan 2004 onwards
Total strikes: 424
Obama strikes: 373
Total killed: 2,499-4,001
Civilians killed: 424-966
Children killed: 172-207
Injured: 1,161-1,744

Yemen 2002 onwards
Confirmed drone strikes: 129-149
Total killed: 555-811
Civilians killed: 65-101
Children killed: 8-9
Injured: 98-232

Possible extra drone strikes: 89-106
Total killed: 351-503
Civilians killed: 26-61
Children killed: 6-9
Injured: 82-109

Somalia 2007 onwards
Drone strikes: 21-31
Total killed: 222-386
Civilians killed: 3-10
Children killed: 0-2
Injured: 2-8

Other covert operations: 9-13
Total killed: 59-141
Civilians killed: 7-47
Children killed: 0-2
Injured: 11-21

Afghanistan 2015 onwards
otal strikes: 404-409
Total killed: 1,973-2,505
Civilians killed: 75-126
Children killed: 4-22
Injured: 214-222

Source.

As U.S. Faces New Scrutiny on Drones, U.N. Report Finds Hundreds of Civilian Deaths in Pakistan

Organizations such as the Long War Journal, the New America Foundation, and the Bureau of Investigative Journalism estimate that at least 200 and as many as 1,000 civilians have been killed by American drone strikes in nations where the U.S. is not at war since Obama took office

If you would like to read more about this, you can get the book The Assassination Complex by Jeremy Scahill and The Intercept Team, or read about most of that book's findings here.

Back on topic: pretty awful for this young girl.

The BBC reports: "Police are treating the incident as a murder case, not a terror attack."

[Albert]

^
Skinster will make a good example of an excellent point I will now make.

The question here, are Muslims and people of mid east origin who are conducting territories acts as retaliation against "western oppression" loyal to their countries of origin? Can they truly be considered as nationals of a said nation?

Look at skinster here as a good example. Does she display loyalty to USA or Britain?

The answer is no of coarse not. Her loyalty lies more with her med east people then people of Europe. Notice how people even 2 or 3ed generation of immigrants never truly come to assimilate.

PS. Thank you hippie old farts for fucking up the society.

[Rich]

Drone Strikes:

.........

Just about every intervention by the West in Muslim majority countries, including drone strikes is done with the support of large numbers of Muslims, and very often they are done at the behest of large numbers of Muslims.

Most Muslims love western intervention in Muslim majority countries, they absolutely love it! They love western sanctions. They love western arms. They love Western drone strikes. They love western carpet bombing and they love western invasions.

Of course with one proviso, that the intervention is aimed at their enemies. They will whine like bitches if they're on the receiving end, in fact they will whine like bitches if the intervention doesn't produce a perfect outcome, even if they supported the intervention at the time. We see this endless hypocrisy from Muslim governments to Muslim jihadist groups right down to the un organised Muslim on the street.

There was one notable exception to this. One group of principle, that was Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda. When Saddam invaded Kuwait, the Muslims of MENA couldn't wait to line up with the West's military, from the house of Saud to Hafez Assad. Note the Assad regime is whining like bitches at western interference in Syria, you weren't complaining in 1991 were you. Even Iran tacitly supported the war against Saddam. Bin Laden took a principled stand and refused to support the deployment of western troops in so called Muslim lands. But then how many times have the Muslim lovers told us that Al Qaeda is a tiny unrepresentative minority of Muslims, if they can in fact be considered Muslims at all?

But now even A Qaeda have told their affiliate Al Nusra to pretend to disavow Al Qaeda in order to be able to receive western air support.

[snapdragon]

Oh, for crying out loud. You lot are obsessed. This was one lone nutter who developed an unhealthy interest in this lovely girl.

Her poor parents. I don't know how I'd begin to get over it.

[Thompson_NCL]

Drone Strikes:

Pakistan 2004 onwards
Total strikes: 424
Obama strikes: 373
Total killed: 2,499-4,001
Civilians killed: 424-966
Children killed: 172-207
Injured: 1,161-1,744

Yemen 2002 onwards
Confirmed drone strikes: 129-149
Total killed: 555-811
Civilians killed: 65-101
Children killed: 8-9
Injured: 98-232

Possible extra drone strikes: 89-106
Total killed: 351-503
Civilians killed: 26-61
Children killed: 6-9
Injured: 82-109

Somalia 2007 onwards
Drone strikes: 21-31
Total killed: 222-386
Civilians killed: 3-10
Children killed: 0-2
Injured: 2-8

Other covert operations: 9-13
Total killed: 59-141
Civilians killed: 7-47
Children killed: 0-2
Injured: 11-21

Afghanistan 2015 onwards
otal strikes: 404-409
Total killed: 1,973-2,505
Civilians killed: 75-126
Children killed: 4-22
Injured: 214-222

Your own statistics confirm what Layman said

[Frollein]

Oh, for crying out loud. You lot are obsessed. This was one lone nutter who developed an unhealthy interest in this lovely girl.

Her poor parents. I don't know how I'd begin to get over it.

Except that the lone nutters who cry "Allahu akbar!" are beginning to add up.

[layman]

After the war in Iraq, mainly the US has switched to using proxies in most of the times.
That doesn't mean its not there.

The problem is who is a proxy depends on who you speak to. You will tell me Saudi is a proxy and therefore Saudi strikes in yemen are all US (western) crimes.

Abu will tell me Iran is a US proxy and all Assad kills are US (western) crimes.

I think this is very old fashioned (cold war era) thinking. The US doesnt actually have any vassals or proxys. These places have their own agency.

Now don't get me wrong. We hold our fair share of crimes as well. And in the last decades specially my people (literally my community).
But atleast we don't go on and start blurbing about how we're innocent and don't do anything,

Personally I dont like the terms "crimes". It implies there is a universal law on such matters which is misleading and confuses the debate. Safe to say that the vast majority of military actions by all states in the past 50 years have been counter productive to the overall aim. They are mostly dont out of macho pride.

Also, Skinister thanks for illustrating my point on casualtys.

[skinster]

Your own statistics confirm what Layman said

Layman said drone strikes are aimed at "combatants" and I shared statistics of civilians killed by these weapons.