[Albert]

The Guardian
21 August 2016

The western financial crisis of 2007-8 was the worst since 1931, yet its immediate repercussions were surprisingly modest. The crisis challenged the foundation stones of the long-dominant neoliberal ideology but it seemed to emerge largely unscathed. The banks were bailed out; hardly any bankers on either side of the Atlantic were prosecuted for their crimes; and the price of their behaviour was duly paid by the taxpayer. Subsequent economic policy, especially in the Anglo-Saxon world, has relied overwhelmingly on monetary policy, especially quantitative easing. It has failed. The western economy has stagnated and is now approaching its lost decade, with no end in sight.

After almost nine years, we are finally beginning to reap the political whirlwind of the financial crisis. But how did neoliberalism manage to survive virtually unscathed for so long? Although it failed the test of the real world, bequeathing the worst economic disaster for seven decades, politically and intellectually it remained the only show in town. Parties of the right, centre and left had all bought into its philosophy, New Labour a classic in point. They knew no other way of thinking or doing: it had become the common sense. It was, as Antonio Gramsci put it, hegemonic. But that hegemony cannot and will not survive the test of the real world.

The first inkling of the wider political consequences was evident in the turn in public opinion against the banks, bankers and business leaders. For decades, they could do no wrong: they were feted as the role models of our age, the default troubleshooters of choice in education, health and seemingly everything else. Now, though, their star was in steep descent, along with that of the political class. The effect of the financial crisis was to undermine faith and trust in the competence of the governing elites. It marked the beginnings of a wider political crisis.

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Interesting article, I did not know where to post it exactly, but I believe this place will do.

[The Immortal Goon]

I thought it was interesting too.

I wonder how many people here, on this board or extremists, had chosen our path before the crises. I would suspect that few of us have--I'm among the older side of the average age, I'd imagine (just missing being a millennial), and I was politically aware (and more or less a Marxist) before the Great Recession.

[Albert]

My political awerness formed after 2008, and that was mostly from growing up. Before that I was product of the system, my outlook was modern liberal I believed in multiculturalism, feminism and all that jazz. I think my political view would had been formed regardless of the recession.

Although I can see how economic problems can created deviating and "radical" outlooks. As at time one needs a good kick in the ass to begin to wake up to reality of things.

Not to mention the fact that there is a recession, shows the system has failed badly. As again, this recession is man made, there is no natural phenomena like weather or some plauge that is preventing our prosperity. But simply our own mismanagement. This alone is enough to make one think radically outside then what is considered "normal" today. As it obviously not working.

[Potemkin]

I wonder how many people here, on this board or extremists, had chosen our path before the crises. I would suspect that few of us have--I'm among the older side of the average age, I'd imagine (just missing being a millennial), and I was politically aware (and more or less a Marxist) before the Great Recession.

I became a Marxist shortly after the collapse of the Soviet Union, in the early 1990s. What can I say, I've always been a contrarian. Everything I have witnessed or experienced since then has only deepened my conviction that Marxism is the correct theory of modern capitalist society. The financial crisis of 2008 simply made me slightly more smug than before, that's all.

[SueDeNîmes]

Good article IMO.

I'd say the repercussions of the crash were "surprisingly modest" because neoliberalism and globalisation are surprisingly hard to undo. No nation wants to unilaterally isolate itself from trade. Outsourcing, subcontracting, casualisation etc have made it nigh impossible for labour to organise. Any gains would soon be lost to automation anyway. There's no going back to post-war conditions and its unclear what undoing neoloberalism could mean, except a lot of pain along the way. Thus mainstream party political policy is to scrape along in tolerable stagnation and just hope inequality doesn't upset the apple cart. Even if neoliberalism is in its ideological death throes.

[Potemkin]

I'd say the repercussions of the crash were "surprisingly modest" because neoliberalism and globalisation are surprisingly hard to undo. No nation wants to unilaterally isolate itself from trade. Outsourcing, subcontracting, casualisation etc have made it nigh impossible for labour to organise. Any gains would soon be lost to automation anyway. There's no going back to post-war conditions and its unclear what undoing neoloberalism could mean, except a lot of pain along the way. Thus mainstream party political policy is to scrape along in tolerable stagnation and just hope inequality doesn't upset the apple cart. Even if neoliberalism is in its ideological death throes.

Sounds rather like the Soviet Union under Brezhnev - a stagnating system trapped in a sub-optimal equilibrium with a defunct ideology. All we need now is a Gorbachev-type figure who will try to 'save' capitalism with ham-fisted reforms and collapse the entire system.

[Frollein]

Like Draghi?

[Potemkin]

Pretty much, yeah. But you'll know the end is nigh when the Americans elect their own version of Draghi as President....

[Frollein]

I actually do hope they'll elect Trump, if only because he hates Merkel almost as much as I do, but, eternal pessimist that I am, I fear they'll choose Hillary. Did you know that our government just dusted off their old civil defense plans, advised the population to stock up reserves for ten days and thinks loudly about reintroducing the draft? Made all the headlines in the last three days here. Apparently they think that Hillary will make it, too.

[Potemkin]

I actually do hope they'll elect Trump, if only because he hates Merkel almost as much as I do, but, eternal pessimist that I am, I fear they'll choose Hillary. Did you know that our government just dusted off their old civil defense plans, advised the population to stock up reserves for ten days and thinks loudly about reintroducing the draft? Made all the headlines in the last three days here. Apparently they think that Hillary will make it, too.

It looks like our lords and masters are beginning to prepare for the End Times, eh Frollein? They've finally realised that they've paddled themselves up Shit Creek and then accidentally dropped the paddle....

[Frollein]

*shrug* Opinion is split on whether they prepare for Hillary's war against Russia or civil war as a result of Merkel's "welcome!" policy. Personally, I think it's the CDU's attempt to lure voters back from the AfD by pretending to care for internal security.

[Potemkin]

*shrug* Opinion is split on whether they prepare for Hillary's war against Russia or civil war as a result of Merkel's "welcome!" policy. Personally, I think it's the CDU's attempt to lure voters back from the AfD by pretending to care for internal security.

I suspect the latter is the most likely reason - basically, it's a publicity stunt to stir up public fear using public money for party political advantage. Do you think the German voters will buy it, Frollein?

[Frollein]

Well, a survey in Die Welt today showed that 53% thought it's nothing but fearmongering; and of the 44% that suspect that something's brewing, those who think the government is preparing for a civil war are thrice as high as those who think we're going to war against Russia.

So if people think that we're bound to clash with the "refugees" that Merkel invited, I'd say this stunt is going to bite them in the ass: it'll be viewed as the government trying to mop up the mess it created in the first place. What I've read in the comments so far is that Merkel has made Germany an unsafe place that made it necessary to get out those old plans.

Well, next Sunday we have state elections in Mecklenburg, then community elections in Lower Saxony, and after that, state elections in Berlin. I guess the likes of Atlantis will have heart palpitations at the results of the AfD.

[Potemkin]

So if people think that we're bound to clash with the "refugees" that Merkel invited, I'd say this stunt is going to bite them in the ass: it'll be viewed as the government trying to mop up the mess it created in the first place. What I've read in the comments so far is that Merkel has made Germany an unsafe place that made it necessary to get out those old plans.

Indeed. As a Brit, I have to say that I find this sort of hysterical overreaction on the part of a national government to be baffling. What are they hoping to achieve? In Britain, we expect our government to be calm and rational at all times, even if huge quantities of manure are hitting the fan. The current behaviour of the German government seems alarmist and irrational. Even if they're just pretending for political advantage, it makes them look like Chicken Little fearing that the sky is about to fall on their heads. You know, stiff upper lip and all that, old chap.

[Hong Wu]

Holy shit. Hillary Clinton came into my room to bring me a plate of chicken nuggets and I literally screamed at her and hit the plate of chicken nuggets out of her hand. She started to have a seizure and threw a barbell at me and I slammed the door on her. I'm so distressed right now I don't know what to do. I didn't mean to do that to Hillary but I'm literally in shock from the results tonight. I feel like I'm going to explode. Why the fucking fuck is she losing? This can't be happening. I'm having a fucking breakdown. I don't want to believe Trump has the dankest memes. I want to be stronger together. I want Hillary to be president and let in more refugees. I cannot fucking deal with this right now. It wasn't supposed to be like this, I thought she was polling well in Virginia?? This is so fucked.

[Frollein]

Indeed. As a Brit, I have to say that I find this sort of hysterical overreaction on the part of a national government to be baffling. What are they hoping to achieve? In Britain, we expect our government to be calm and rational at all times, even if huge quantities of manure are hitting the fan. The current behaviour of the German government seems alarmist and irrational. Even if they're just pretending for political advantage, it makes them look like Chicken Little fearing that the sky is about to fall on their heads. You know, stiff upper lip and all that, old chap.

Well, they claim that an overhaul of the civil defense program had been in the works since 2012 and that the date of its publication was purely coincidental and had nothing to do with our "bloody July" - if that was true, it would demonstrate a remarkable lack of political instinct, which I refuse to believe. I think it's owed to the upcoming election, both state and federal.

[Potemkin]

Well, they claim that an overhaul of the civil defense program had been in the works since 2012 and that the date of its publication was purely coincidental and had nothing to do with our "bloody July" - if that was true, it would demonstrate a remarkable lack of political instinct, which I refuse to believe. I think it's owed to the upcoming election, both state and federal.

I think you're probably right, but I still can't see what they hope to achieve with this. They are trying to reassure the German public by... telling them to stockpile food and water for ten days and talking about bringing back conscription? And if they are trying to alarm the German public for no good reason, then this will undoubtedly have negative political consequences for them. I'm just not seeing any rationality behind this, not even a cynical rationality.

[Frollein]

I don't understand Merkel's policy at all. I don't understand her insistence to flood Germany and Europe with millions on MENA immigrants, either. It did fuel the growth of the AfD and I can only guess that they're trying to jump on the bandwagon of internal security, which was in pre-Merkel times a central tenet of the CDU program and their self-image.

In reality, we're living in a GDR2.0, where our minister of justice can publicly praise a left-extremist band who writes songs like "Germany is shit, Germany must die" and which was under surveillance of the Verfassungsschutz. A "minister of justice" who employs a former Stasi-officer to censor facebook and block journalists who dare to criticize the burka... and who publicly declared that the AfD was playing the victim card and deserved what's coming to them when party members were attacked by the Antifa and their offices vandalised.

I have no idea if this has anything to do with neoliberalism, but I think that Germany is in a severe political crisis, and the only reason it's not widely visible is because the media do a terrific job of applying paint to the crumbling structure.

[Potemkin]

I have no idea if this has anything to do with neoliberalism, but I think that Germany is in a severe political crisis, and the only reason it's not widely visible is because the media do a terrific job of applying paint to the crumbling structure.

I think Germany is finally paying the price of reunification, Frollein. The dissolution of the GDR and the resulting social, cultural and economic dislocations for many of the inhabitants of the former GDR was bound to have certain... consequences for the whole German nation, East and West. In one sense, West Germany absorbed the GDR, but in another sense the GDR absorbed West Germany. For example, did you really think the West German security forces were going to allow the expertise of the former Stasi officers to go to waste? Hmm...?

[Truth To Power]

I became a Marxist shortly after the collapse of the Soviet Union, in the early 1990s. What can I say, I've always been a contrarian. Everything I have witnessed or experienced since then has only deepened my conviction that Marxism is the correct theory of modern capitalist society. The financial crisis of 2008 simply made me slightly more smug than before, that's all.

It's discouraging that seemingly intelligent -- though perhaps merely learned -- people can imagine an absurd, anti-scientific, illogical, and invariably failed ideology like Marxism could be the answer to neoliberalism's -- actually capitalism's -- increasingly obtrusive failures. Don't you get it? Dialectics is just formal adoption of the false dichotomy fallacy as your basic epistemological principle. You will achieve nothing, understand nothing, until you actually get scientific, and find a willingness to know the self-evident and indisputable facts of objective physical reality.

Capitalism is failing because it runs on neoliberalism, which is just the practical implementation of the policies espoused by mainstream neoclassical economics: a discipline (one cannot call it a science) wholly devoted not to the understanding of economic phenomena, but to rationalizing, justifying and perpetuating privilege. To do this, neoclassical economics has adopted Marx's fundamental error as its lodestone, though for opposite reasons. The result is the most atrocious scientific fraud of all time. But Marxism is even worse than neoclassical economics -- as its real-world results show so incontrovertibly -- because it goes far deeper, all the way down to metaphysics and epistemology.