[QatzelOk]

Poor Muhammed, he was such a misunderstood character. If we could only find the deeper meaning behind his murdering, plundering, thieving and enslaving.

Why is it important to understand Mohammed's character?

What is important is what he wrote. And that's all.

His life was a product of his time, just like mine or yours is. But his book was a product of the lucidity and perspective that his life afforded him in his time.

The obsession with the types of toothpaste that celebrities use... is trash culture, and not worthy of respect or my time.

[The Sabbaticus]

Except that he didn't write anything down. The Quran was compiled and written by others after he died, and the 'compilation' hasn't remained the same either.

No. I am not using it as a psychological or psychiatric term. It is a sociological term.



As long as we agree that no one is censoring you or trying to silence you, you can come up with as many irrelevant straw men and insults as you want.



The fact that you have yet to show how Islamophobia is not a real thing is all I need. The delicious irony of you trying to silence others by complaining about being silenced, that is simply a side benefit.

So recap: you consistently accuse others of Islamophobia, have yet to provide a single cohesive argument, ignore everything supplied (as per usual) and have hoisted yourself on a cross, conjuring forth the image that you're a victim of your beliefs.

[QatzelOk]

Except that he didn't write anything down. The Quran was compiled and written by others after he died, and the 'compilation' hasn't remained the same either.

It was written down by people who had memorized what he had said to them all his life (oral tradition). "Writing a book" refers to the authorship, and not the penmanship. Many great novels have been dictated and then penned and edited by others.

I realize that the Romans forced your people to become Christian and that this brainwashing has made you unable to do anything but troll other religions (except Judaism, which you worship like your master).

[Pants-of-dog]

So recap: you consistently accuse others of Islamophobia, have yet to provide a single cohesive argument, ignore everything supplied (as per usual) and have hoisted yourself on a cross, conjuring forth the image that you're a victim of your beliefs.

If that is what you want to believe, go ahead. I have no idea why you spend so much time making stuff up about me, when you could be putting together an argument.

None of this supports your claim that Islamophobia does not exist.

[Donna]

I think anyone who is a bit familiar with the backwardness of pre-Islamic MENA society can appreciate the civilizing effect of Islam on the races who rebelled against trinitarian monotheism and the Neoplatonic academies. In this sense Muhammad's law was a mercy for illiterates, nomads, slaves, and fellahin (peasants), bringing a Mosaic religious structure to places and situations where Christianity had failed to take hold. The fact that the Muslim faith was spread by the sword is laudable in the context of the socio-political struggle against the degeneracy of jahiliyyah.

Of course, this does not mean that Islam belongs in Europe (racial as well as religious differences can be attributed to its failure to integrate), but a dispassionate assessment of Islamic civilization, theology, and history should always be encouraged.

[Verv]

That is excellent analysis there, Donald.

I have, for a long time, been saying that I have a bigger problem with liberals than I do with Muslims -- the Muslims are doing abotu what we would expect them to be doing in Europe. They're behaving in the exact way I thought they would, and they are bringing the society down the exactly wrong path. For that matter, the liberals are doing exactly what we would all expect them to by continuing their wholesale importation and denial of the real problems.

The only significance of Muslims in the equation is that they are saying 'yes' to leaving poor countries. It is the liberals who are the architects of Europe's downfall.

[QatzelOk]

Rejecting the Hadiths for coming after his death doesn't make much sense seeing as there is no major sect of Islam that does so.

Well, if you want to follow "major sects," then you're a trend-follower who doesn't feel comfortable thinking for himself.

The Quran encourages people to think for themselves, so I'm not sure if you've got what it takes to be a thinker.

But if you're here on the forum to tell us what the trends are... thanks, but who cares. Obesity is one of them, right?

... the Muslims are doing abotu what we would expect them to be doing in Europe. They're behaving in the exact way I thought they would, and they are bringing the society down the exactly wrong path.

If you're talking about all the mass shootings in Europe, I think blaming this on "Muslims bringing society down the wrong path" is both silly and superficial. The wrong path would be where neo-liberalism is bringing us because A. they are the ones who bring societies down paths B. The path they're on is the world-ending consumption levels and manufactured racism and wars path that they've had us on for a few centuries.

A lot of the "incidents" of the last few years in Europe and other parts of the West are our own military's psyc ops along with stories that are twisted into meaning whatever neo-liberalism wants them to mean.

[Verv]

I like Muslims and Islamic society but it is not a good time for us to mix if they do not have an interest in assimilation into our societies.

For the exact same reasons, I should not settle down permanently in Egypt unless I plan on conforming entirely to the Egyptian norms and the society. Of course, this does not mean utterly sacrificing everything that you are... but, it does require adherence to new norms and traditions.

[Pants-of-dog]

Being killed for being Muslim seems pretty American, so I guess the guys in the OP integrated well.

[The Sabbaticus]

^ The level of sophistication that Pants-of-dog brings to the discussion. Characterizing all Americans as possessing a natural inclination for killing Muslims. The American flag is apparently the equivalent of the Nazi flag and a Muslim holocaust will soon follow in 'The United Reich'.

[Pants-of-dog]

If you think I did that, then you have reading comprehension issues.

If you also think that Americans do not have a habit of killing Muslims, please see almost all of the US military ventures of the last twenty years. Thanks.

[Heisenberg]

I know you were being facetious, P-o-d (and as far as I'm concerned, annoying Sabb is worthwhile in and of itself), but there is a distinction between US soldiers killing people who happen to be Muslim, and US soldiers killing Muslims because they are Muslim. I don't think it's fair to characterise any of the US's military ventures as doing the latter.

[Pants-of-dog]

You are correct on all counts, Heisenberg.

[QatzelOk]

^ The level of sophistication that Pants-of-dog brings to the discussion. Characterizing all Americans as possessing a natural inclination for killing Muslims. The American flag is apparently the equivalent of the Nazi flag and a Muslim holocaust will soon follow in 'The United Reich'.

Let's bring sophistication back to the debate with Sam Husseini then.

...the national anthem is racist. Specifically, the third stanza:

No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

And pale beamed the Crescent, its splendor obscur’d
By the light of the star-bangled flag of our nation.
Where each flaming star gleamed a meteor of war,
And the turban’d head bowed to the terrible glare.

In 1814 Key rehabbed this doggerel into the Star Spangled Banner. So America’s national anthem began as a gleeful tirade against the Mahommedans. And of course every member of the U.S. Marine Corps regularly bellows out the USMC anthem, beginning “From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli.”

As for the flag of the USA being the equivalent of a swastika, the 50 stars which represent arbitrarily defined "states" could be replaced with 150 stars representing te real, actual cultures that were destroyed in order to bring in European mercenaries to suck the resources out of the ground.