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By anasawad
#14714044
Actually the scientific community around the globe is split on it almost evenly.
51% of scientists either believe in a specific religion, believe in god, or at the very least believe that there must be a type of a higher power or spirit in the universe.
compared to those who explicitly don't believe in god (athiests) being 41%.

Even more, in places like hong kong for example. The percentage of those who believe in god to those who don't was higher among scientists than among the general population.


For the transistor comment.
How about the universe ?
By Besoeker
#14714048
anasawad wrote:Actually the scientific community around the globe is split on it almost evenly.
51% of scientists either believe in a specific religion, believe in god, or at the very least believe that there must be a type of a higher power or spirit in the universe.
compared to those who explicitly don't believe in god (athiests) being 41%.

Got a source?

anasawad wrote:For the transistor comment.
How about the universe ?

We know who invented the transistor. Can you say the same about the universe?
By Pants-of-dog
#14714049
Besoeker wrote:Got a source?


Other than the one I already cited?

We know who invented the transistor. Can you say the same about the universe?


Are you basing your belief that god does not exist on a lack of knowledge?
By anasawad
#14714053
BTw, there is actually something that is quite interesting here in these stats.
See, the figure of 90% is true but it doesn't talk about scientists in general. Its true concerning biologists.
And not in general, those in the US.

Here it comes to mind to question why exactly is that.
The most obvious one is the way each nation considers evolution and life, which biologists are most concerned about it.

Like for example, comparing Lebanon to the US. Lebanon has both Muslims and Christians equally.
The US is mostly Christians.
Many, not all but many, specially in the former decades in the US denied evolution and all these studies saying that its wrong because god. And that believe of instant creation.
So when some of those people grow to become biologists, they'll see all of their former religious education false and will generally start denying everything until they turn into full athiests, and their kids will be as well obviously.
Then you look at education here, and to be more accurate, 'll talk about my main education so in Baalbak.
Christians here look at evolution and say, this is god's work, and generally the universe, and science is us trying to understand how god created everything. And they generally approach religion in a philosophical way rather than coming up with anti-science things.
Muslims on the other hand look at evolution differently.
They look at the Quran and see what god said. First in the quran its said the life evolved from water.
And then god calls hem self al-bare' which means in english the evolver.So... evolution, yes.

You might say the Quran is modified, but if you checked even the oldest copies, which the oldest one found is around 1300 years old. Its the same. Its preserved in museums.


@Besoeker
Well, since you have been giving 1 line answer in the past days all together. time to do some work.
Its not much work really since generally all the results on google are actually the same.

We know who invented the transistor. Can you say the same about the universe?

yea, i can.

Lets give it a thought. The universe is currently running in a to say perfect order. Everything is highly organized and every piece of the universe works with all the other pieces in harmony.
A fully operational and productive proccess, to a point where we cant even comprehend how complicated and perfected it is.
Then we know there are things external to the universe, implied by the big bang theory (which is proven).
This gave the opening to the theory of a multiverse, basically, if something can generate a universe, then it for sure can generate many more of it.
And from former experience, it tells that there is most likely more than one universe.

So if we considered that the universe is just one random event than generated all of this as some athiests say.
You run to a wall, that is the fact the statistically, its near impossible for such complicated universe to be generated randomly. unless ofcourse there was a pre-set order for it.
And then again, there is the infinite regress thing which is impossible. And i know you will start saying how it is possible. But i assure you, athiests have been trying to come up with an argument against it that fully breaks it for centuries now. They still haven't succeed.
By Besoeker
#14714056
Pants-of-dog wrote:Other than the one I already cited?

Are you basing your belief that god does not exist on a lack of knowledge?

Lack of credible, objective evidence.
By Pants-of-dog
#14714058
Well, at least you are no longer wondering why I did not believe starman. Apparently, the evidence (in form of an empirically verifiable survey) did not support that claim and supported another.

What sort of evidence would support the claim that god exists?
By Besoeker
#14714059
anasawad wrote:

Lets give it a thought. The universe is currently running in a to say perfect order.

Again, opinion.
It's expanding so, at best, it cannot be considered perfect. There are anomalies in earth's climate, sometimes quite extreme and result in fatalaties.
There is starvation on a massive scale, natural disasters like the Indian Ocean earthquake that resulted in about quarter of a million fatalities and vast devestation.

Perfect order??? I don't think so.
By Besoeker
#14714060
Pants-of-dog wrote:Well, at least you are no longer wondering why I did not believe starman. Apparently, the evidence (in form of an empirically verifiable survey) did not support that claim and supported another.

What sort of evidence would support the claim that god exists?

Objective evidence of what he did yesterday.
By Pants-of-dog
#14714066
I am getting tired of pointing out that you do not write in complete sentences.

Am I supposed to assume that objective evidence of what he (god, I guess?) did yesterday is evidence enough for god's existence?

Are you then saying that you would be satisfied with objective evidence?

If that is the case (and this is based on several assumptions I had to make), then what would constitute objective evidence?
By anasawad
#14714067
@Besoeker
Starvation is generally humans doing it, since the earth can easily feed all humans alive today. Thats a fact BTW. And starvation is what you get with capitalism.

Doesn't those same "anomalies" the ones that made earth good for living.
Wait, you think for something to be perfect you have to actually like it or make you feel something like eternal spring or what ever ?

If a little thing in how the universe works changed, you can kiss the universe good bye. literally.
Really, pick anything about how the universe works that we know so far. if it changed, everything in the universe is gone.
Those little meassures we find, works perfect with each other, one breaks down, everything breaks down.

Lets pick something simple that will only effect us. Earth.
If earth was a little further from the sun, or a little closer. Bye bye life.
By anasawad
#14714068
and wait. You think that the universe is expanding means its not in perfect order within it self ?
How did you come up with a conclusion in the exact opposite of what everyone else in the world came with ?

If the universe was in disorder and chaos, there would be no universe. There would be no order in the universe at all. There wont be anything in the universe.
Look anywhere. Everything in the universe runs by order, and it wont be expanding at all if it wasn't in perfect order within itself.
Heck, even atoms runs in perfect order. Change one thing and everything falls apart instantly.
Why you think many of the experiments done to create new elements fail and nothing can ever be kept.
There is an order for the universe to work that nothing can work outside of it.
User avatar
By Drlee
#14714084
Besoeker is at war with himself. Not the religious. He is just not mature enough yet to understand that. He is attempting to win an argument with people who do not care what his opinions are. Starman has been trolling religious people for a long time. I am weary of his shallow arguments and just ignore him for the most part.

Look at this:

Starvation is generally humans doing it, since the earth can easily feed all humans alive today. Thats a fact BTW. And starvation is what you get with capitalism.


Completely unsupportable with the same level of evidence he would ask of religious people. Very tedious.
By Besoeker
#14714103
Drlee wrote:Besoeker is at war with himself. Not the religious. He is just not mature enough yet to understand that.

You have yet to understand that this topic is not about me.
By Besoeker
#14714104
anasawad wrote:and wait. You think that the universe is expanding means its not in perfect order within it self ?
How did you come up with a conclusion in the exact opposite of what everyone else in the world came with ?

If the universe was in disorder and chaos, there would be no universe. There would be no order in the universe at all. There wont be anything in the universe.
Look anywhere. Everything in the universe runs by order, and it wont be expanding at all if it wasn't in perfect order within itself.
Heck, even atoms runs in perfect order. Change one thing and everything falls apart instantly.
Why you think many of the experiments done to create new elements fail and nothing can ever be kept.
There is an order for the universe to work that nothing can work outside of it.

I note your opinion.
By Besoeker
#14714105
anasawad wrote:@Besoeker
Starvation is generally humans doing it, since the earth can easily feed all humans alive today. Thats a fact BTW. And starvation is what you get with capitalism.

God, if such existed and is omnipotent, could prevent starvation. But clearly does not.
I can think of a simple explanation.
Last edited by Besoeker on 31 Aug 2016 04:53, edited 1 time in total.
By Besoeker
#14714106
Pants-of-dog wrote:I am getting tired of pointing out that you do not write in complete sentences.

Am I supposed to assume that objective evidence of what he (god, I guess?)

Why guess? Read the title of the topic.

Pants-of-dog wrote:did yesterday is evidence enough for god's existence?

Are you then saying that you would be satisfied with objective evidence?

If that is the case (and this is based on several assumptions I had to make), then what would constitute objective evidence?

Something that could be measured, tested, verified, and repeatable. Or any combination of those. But you have already stated that is not possible so I don't know why you even asked the question.
User avatar
By Drlee
#14714107
Something that could be measured, tested, verified, and repeatable. Or any combination of those. But you have already stated that is not possible so I don't know why you even asked.


Why do you care? You stand to gain nothing with your arguments.
By Besoeker
#14714108
Drlee wrote:Why do you care?

Because I think it is an interesting topic for discussion. Don't you?

Drlee wrote:You stand to gain nothing with your arguments.

As I stated before, it isn't about winning or losing. Did you miss that?
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