[War Angel]

But can you demonstrate where I have shown 'hatred of jews and Israel'?

Oh, just about every second post you make... how about your current tirade against the Jews, portraying us as weak and mindless sheep? And this is just your latest.

So you've posted a list of the exceptions.

Which proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the Jews did NOT go like lambs to the slaughter, thus negating your earlier argument completely.

A ghetto uprising in a couple of places, the odd revolt in an otherwise smoothly functioning death camp.

You clearly have no idea what any of this means. We are talking about civilians with NO military training, no weapons, no food and very little to keep them going. Most of them are very ill, practically half-dead, weighing around a third of what they should weigh, fighting one of the most terrible, well-oiled and fearsome war-machines to have ever plagued this Earth.

I'll sit back and await the inevitable justification for Israeli aggression you will link back to this.

What can I say - I aim to please.

It's nobody's fault but the nazis.

I'm glad you're starting to make sense. I don't suspect this will become a habit, though.

[Rodion]

You clearly have no idea what any of this means. We are talking about civilians with NO military training, no weapons, no food and very little to keep them going. Most of them are very ill, practically half-dead, weighing around a third of what they should weigh, fighting one of the most terrible, well-oiled and fearsome war-machines to have ever plagued this Earth.

First person to yell "ZOMG ISRAEL" gets punched in the face.

[danholo]

oh I get to hear all kinds of bad things that seem to be written down the Quran. Those kinds of comments usually are not made by Atheist.

Was that directed at me? I don't recall speaking about Quran ever on this board. If I have, I don't know what I said.

[MVictorP]

You clearly have no idea what any of this means. We are talking about civilians with NO military training, no weapons, no food and very little to keep them going. Most of them are very ill, practically half-dead, weighing around a third of what they should weigh, fighting one of the most terrible, well-oiled and fearsome war-machines to have ever plagued this Earth.

I tought I would never live to see the day War Angel actually empathized with his Palestinian cousins. Great humanism, man

[Ter]

I tought I would never live to see the day War Angel actually empathized with his Palestinian cousins. Great humanism, man Thumbs up

Viktor, Viktor, that must be the worst comparison of the century. You terrorist Palestinian brothers get military training in Iran, food from the European Union and the United Nations, electricity from Israel, weapons and rockets from Iran and other places, and until his timely demise, Sadam Hossain sent $20,000 to the family of every suicide murderer who killed Israeli women and children (for that reason alone he deserved to be hanged in my opinion).And you compare the Warshaw Ghetto to Gaza? You are blinded by hatred.

Ter

[MVictorP]

You terrorist Palestinian brothers get military training in Iran, food from the European Union and the United Nations, electricity from Israel, weapons and rockets from Iran and other places, and until his timely demise, Sadam Hossain sent $20,000 to the family of every suicide murderer who killed Israeli women and children

Gee, what a blast being a Palestinian confined in a refugee camp is! Free food, wealth, energy, top-notch Qassam ballistic missiles... these damn sand niggas have it all, the greatest party on Earth, and yet they complain? How un-grateful and selfish from their part.

And you compare the Warshaw Ghetto to Gaza? You are blinded by hatred.

Yeah, you're right. Until they convert to Judaism, these spoiled Palestinians sub-humans can never hope to even understand what suffering is about.

Only Jews bleed.

[Vanasalus]

It is worth noting that most of Israel-related threads at some point turns into either a holocaust discussion or polygon of anti-Semitism accusations. It is as if some people around cannot defend their opinions and judgments without branding every opponent as Jew-hater.

Let me remind that the current topic is the assault in Jerusalem Yeshiva, which claimed 7 young lives. And its reasons and implications must be discussed within the context of Palestinian Israeli conflict, within the context of recent cycle of violence between parties, which claimed more than 100 lives in Gaza.

I am aware that those 100 Gazans are less human than 7 Israelis in the eyes of some. So, I do not expect some respect for those 100. Yet, while the bodies of 7 dead Yeshiva students are still warm, I find the debating techniques of PoFo's pro-Israel pundits utterly wrong and disrespectful.

Lets stick to the topic.

[Nets]

It is as if some people around cannot defend their opinions and judgments without branding every opponent as Jew-hater.

Van, this goes both ways. Quite often people who support Israel are branded on this board alternately as fascists or racists.

You may have also noticed a popular rhetorical tool where people will say the most vile things about Israel and Jews and then qualify it with "oh and now I'll be called an anti-semite". Anti-Zionists claim they are called anti-semites far more than they actually are. Its a defense mechanism that allows one to say horrible things while silencing the opposition to you.

I'll admit, some of the pro-Israel posters have been less than judicious (or well warranted) in their use of the anti-semite card, but at the same time....I have no qualms at all about designating certain posters here as anti-semites. Not most, not many, but a few.

For example, I have zero problem with anti-Zionist posters who frame their posts in well reasoned respectful language, (Tailz, Gletkin, Ideational Ontarian come to mind), but with posters who are singularly obsessed with Israel and see the world in black and white, frothing at the mouth as they type, often using the language straight out of Der Stuermer...with these types I have no common ground for discussion.

I am aware that those 100 Gazans are less human than 7 Israelis in the eyes of some.

And vice versa.

I find the debating techniques of PoFo's pro-Israel pundits utterly wrong and disrespectful.

A lot of times I would agree with this....some people on the board do a lot more harm than good for Israel's image. But at the same time the pedestal upon which the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been placed by several posters to the ignorance of all other conflicts or disputes is questionable.

It is worth noting that most of Israel-related threads at some point turns into either a holocaust discussion or polygon of anti-Semitism accusations.

It is also worth noting that many unrelated threads devolve into Israel-Palestine discussion...and it isn't the pro-Israel posters who cause this.[/quote]

[Ter]

Vanasalus:

I am aware that those 100 Gazans are less human than 7 Israelis in the eyes of some. So, I do not expect some respect for those 100. Yet, while the bodies of 7 dead Yeshiva students are still warm, I find the debating techniques of PoFo's pro-Israel pundits utterly wrong and disrespectful.

Your comments show that you yourself are not objective, so don't try to walz in here like a neutral arbiter.

If you read the threads, you will find that the anti Israel posters very often start by comparing Israel to the Nazis, and the threads are derailed from there on.

Ter

[MVictorP]

If you read the threads, you will find that the anti Israel posters very often start by comparing Israel to the Nazis, and the threads are derailed from there on.

Mmmh. I can understand how much a Nazi can be outraged about these Israeli comparisons. Please pardon me for that, Ter.

[Tonic]

Ter

Vanasalus:

I am aware that those 100 Gazans are less human than 7 Israelis in the eyes of some. So, I do not expect some respect for those 100. Yet, while the bodies of 7 dead Yeshiva students are still warm, I find the debating techniques of PoFo's pro-Israel pundits utterly wrong and disrespectful.

Your comments show that you yourself are not objective, so don't try to walz in here like a neutral arbiter.

If you read the threads, you will find that the anti Israel posters very often start by comparing Israel to the Nazis, and the threads are derailed from there on.

It's not just in threads, it's common tactic even among directors of the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA)



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/ma ... lestinians

Letters

The blockade on peace in the Middle East

The Guardian, Friday March 7 2008

When I was the director of the UN Relief and Works Agency in the Gaza Strip during the first intifada I repeatedly reminded senior Israeli military officers there to look to their own history. First to remind them of the suffering of the Jewish people in occupied Europe at the hands of the Germans during the second world war and not to repeat, as occupiers, such abuses on the Palestinians. Second to remember the overcrowded Warsaw ghetto into which Jews were confined with limited food, water, electricity and medical supplies. The situation was so bad that brave young Jews with very limited weapons rose up and fought against the Germans. They knew they could not hope to win, but they could die with honour. Look now at the situation in Gaza, hermetically sealed by land, sea and air, with the same limitations as in Warsaw so long ago. Is it any wonder that the young Palestinians seeing their elected leaders being killed and feeling they have no hope should not take on the might of the Israeli army from their Gaza ghetto and with their puny weapons try to inflict some small return in Israel for their suffering?
Bernard Mills
Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk

Letters

Offensive language on the Middle East

The Guardian, Saturday March 8 2008

I am doubly concerned about Bernard Mills' letter (March 7). Not only because of its distorted and disgraceful content, but that the Guardian should see fit to publish such offensive material. The comparison with the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto of the plight of the Palestinians in Gaza is obscene. The disparities between the two situations are too great to list, but what was a holding station for Jews prior to transporting them to extermination camps is not reflected in Gaza. The Palestinians have the opportunity to negotiate a peaceful solution towards gaining their justifiable independence - not a luxury afforded to the Jews of Warsaw. The behaviour of Hamas and its allied militia are not those of desperate freedom fighters. The slogan "no recognition, no negotiation, no peace" is one that we have heard before, but not now from Palestinian secularists open to realpolitik, but by Islamists whose cynical use of violence promotes their ideological stance in attempting to destroy the state of Israel.
Dr Freddy Shaw
London

[Maas]

You clearly have no idea what any of this means. We are talking about civilians with NO military training, no weapons, no food and very little to keep them going. Most of them are very ill, practically half-dead, weighing around a third of what they should weigh, fighting one of the most terrible, well-oiled and fearsome war-machines to have ever plagued this Earth.

sounds like the people you called as the biggest collaboraters who you expected to protected others while they sipped on a martini.

You may have also noticed a popular rhetorical tool where people will say the most vile things about Israel and Jews

I've noticed that certain pro-Israel people are actually quiet happy about the amount of people the IDF kill and don't care crap about the "collateral dammage" or war crimes like collective punishments etc. What they see as the "anti-semite" corner aint coming nowhere near that. I doubt anybody here even supports Hamas, like they would want to believe. As far as I can see the "anti-semite" corner only goes so far as having an oppinion about Jews and pro Jews combined with the topic of Israel and not global at all.... which a true anti-semite would do. And that's very much unlike other peoples fear of muslims in general.... and that does happen here.

[Nets]

I've noticed that certain pro-Israel people are actually quiet happy about the amount of people the IDF kill

That's true. Relative to other counter-guerrilla/terror organizations, the IDF kills very few people. I applaud IDF restraint.

While I don't agree with every decision the IDF makes, for example bombing apartment buildings to take out a Hamas cell; I don't know of any other way to carry out the ground ops they do. They are drawn into the cities, that is not their fault.

and don't care crap about the "collateral dammage"

That isn't true. Show me one pro-Israel poster who has celebrated Palestinian deaths, or been happy about them. No one here wants Palestinians to die, but they also don't want Israeli civilians to die either.

or war crimes like collective punishments etc.

I would agree with this before the Gazans elected Hamas. You can't vote for Hamas overwhelmingly and then bitch about the consequences. The closures employed by Israel are far more humane than a miliatary operation.....which Israel finally did now after putting it off for months under the cover of peace talks with Abbas.

You don't elected a government that lobs thousands of rockets over the border and then bitch when the shit hits the fan.

The Palestinians were given a tremendous opportunity in 2005 to show the world how they would run their future state; and like usual, they blew it.

[sploop!]

The disparities between the two situations are too great to list,

It would have been nice if he'd tried though, instead of mentioning two points that have very little to do with the subject - which, to recap, is the observation that the situation created by the Nazis for the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto, and the situation created by the Israelis for the Palestinians in Gaza have some striking similarities.


2003...

MPs compare Gaza to Warsaw ghetto

* Press Association
* guardian.co.uk,
* Thursday June 19 2003


Israel's treatment of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip was today compared to the Nazis' creation of the Warsaw ghetto by MPs who recently returned from the region.

The controversial comparison, drawn by Oona King and Jenny Tonge, will anger the pro-Israel lobby and the visiting Israeli finance minister, Benyamin Netanyahu, who met Tony Blair at Downing Street this morning.

Labour MP Ms King, who is Jewish, said Gaza was "the same in nature" as the infamous Polish ghetto.

"No government should be behaving like that - least of all a Jewish government," the Bethnal Green and Bow MP said.

.....

Referring to Warsaw, scene of the historic uprising by its Jewish inhabitants, Ms King said: "It is the same in nature but not extent."

She stressed the "very, very big difference" between Gaza and the infamous ghetto established by the Nazis in Poland's capital.

"Palestinians are not being rounded up and put in gas chambers," she said.

But the MP said: "What makes it similar is what happened to the Jewish people in that time which was the seizing of land, being forced from property, torture and bureaucracy - control used in a demeaning way over the smallest task.

"On top of that building a wall around them - and that is precisely what the Israeli government is doing. In doing so it is building a political ghetto. I don't think it can escape that conclusion."

Ms King also said: "As a Jewish person, I hoped I would never live to see the day I was ashamed of the actions of the Jewish state."

The situation had worsened considerably since she last visited with pressure group Labour Friends of Israel in 1998, she added.

Ms Tonge agreed: "You are almost getting a situation like the Warsaw ghetto - people can't get in or out. They can't work, they can't sell anything. There is this gradual squeeze."

source


2008...

Sunday 2 March 2008

Warsaw Ghetto and Gaza: Disturbing Parallels
Steve Hutcheson, Arab News

.....

The Warsaw Ghetto during the Jewish Holocaust holds special significance to the European Jews. It was a place of oppression and the pathway to the ultimate death of thousands of their population that has become symbolic with their struggle for recognition. Yet what they are failing to acknowledge as their descendants press forward with their own brand of Jewish and Zionist idealism is the parallel set of conditions that they are now imposing on the Arab people of Palestine.

The Nazis rounded up the Jews of Poland and quartered them in a small area of Warsaw, building a barricade around the perimeter to prevent them leaving. So too have the Israelis through conflict and force pushed many of the Arab inhabitants out of Israel into an enclave that now has a population density of 4,200 people per sq. km which is 14 times that of the surrounding area of Israel which has 360 people per sq. km.

The Nazis deprived the ghetto inhabitants of food and essential supplies. So too has the Israeli government stopped the flow of goods to the 1.4 million inhabitants of Gaza by limiting the convoys of supplies to a mere trickle.

The Nazis reduced the average calorie intake of the Jewish inhabitants of the ghetto to 241 calories per day. So too have the Israelis reduced the calorie intake of the Palestinians in Gaza. According to a UN report, it is presently at 61 percent of the average daily requirements.

The Nazis restricted public utilities such as water and electricity. So too has the Israeli government.

The Nazis restricted the inhabitants from adequate health care. Israelis restrict the health care in Gaza by limiting the medical supplies in or the treatment of cases that need to be done outside.

The Jewish inhabitants through the ZZB and the ZOB resisted the oppression by the Nazis albeit too late and their rebellion was brutally crushed without concern for who was in the way. So too have the Palestinians of Gaza through their own resistance organizations, in particular Hamas, rebelled against their oppressors and so too do the Israelis use all means available to crush the rebellion without concern for who is in the way or who they maim or kill in doing so.

The Nazis destroyed the structure of the ghetto leveling it to the ground in a broad quest to rout the resistance to their oppression. Israelis indiscriminately level buildings and the infrastructure in Gaza in a quest to rout out the resistance to their oppression. The Nazis assigned the Jewish people to a lesser status of all their inhabitants depriving them of their rights as citizens and even as humans. Israel assigns the refugees held in Gaza less status than is given to the Jews worldwide and deprives the Palestinians of their rights to return to their former lands.

The Nazis applied whatever was at their means to break the will of the Jewish inhabitants of the ghetto. Israelis do the same thing; they use whatever is at their means to break the will of the Palestinians.

The Nazis killed the Jewish inhabitants of the ghetto indiscriminately. Don’t the Israelis kill indiscriminately the inhabitants in forcing their control over Gaza?

The Jews of Israel and elsewhere are quite right to protest at the inhumanity of the Nazis in their treatment of them and oblige the world not to allow the same situation to happen again. The Palestinians protest at the inhumanity of the Israeli treatment, yet in a bizarre twist of events, the world still allows the oppression to happen and continue.

It was after the Jews in the ghetto had been largely killed or transported that the world stood up and felt guilty in not acting sooner.

source


Meanwhile...

From The Times
January 9, 2008
Hopeless in Gaza
As President Bush visits the Middle East, our correspondent reports on the plight of Palestinians trapped behind a wall built on 2,500 years of implacable enmity and hatred

Stefanie Marsh

We were in east Jerusalem, the day before we were due in the Jordan Valley to document the plight of Palestinian farmers, when the man from Oxfam burst in to the room. This was last week, when I spent five days in the occupied territories – Gaza, Hebron, the Jordan Valley and Bethlehem – inspecting living conditions in anticipation of President George Bush’s visit to Israel today. I’ll get back to the utter hopelessness of the situation in a moment, the misery, the intractable mess – all man-made – the power cuts, the wall, and the things that are festering behind it.

But first, the inconsistencies: the obsession with “narrative”: the utter impossibility of saying anything without being crushed, ridiculed, accused of racism, antiSemitism, Islamophobia, ignorance, brainwashing or lying. This from the Left, the Right, the Jewish lobby, the Muslim lobby, NGOs, evangelical Jew-loving Christians from America, radical Jew-hat-ing Muslims from the Middle East, the Israeli lobby.

If there are any generally accepted facts about the region they are these: the fate of the Palestinians and the disputed territories are an infinite generator of fear and hatred: politically speaking it is the crucial conflict in the world that won’t be solved any time soon. Being there, on the ground, is soul crushingly demoralising. Walk through enough rubble and military checkpoints and in a matter of days you become aware of the possibility of feeling nothing at all.

Anyway, the man from Oxfam wanted to know about the Times photographer: “Where’s he from?” in particular. “He’s from Israel,” I said. “He’s Israeli.” “Do you know what . . . part of Israel?” the man from Oxfam asked nervously, pointing at a map on the wall to show me where the Timesphotographer was allowed to be from and where he wasn’t. “It’s just that a member of staff seemed to think he might be from one of the settlements.”

It became clear that I was expected to call the Israeli photographer and interrogate him about his roots: because if he turned out to have been an Israeli settler and, further, the angry and destitute Palestinian farmers got wind of this fact, or, indeed, if he looked or sounded as if he might have been a settler, Oxfam’s hard work bringing fresh water to a village beset by artificial drought would go out of the window. I dialled, the photographer picked up, awkwardly I explained the situation and immediately he began to shout: “You can tell them to f*** off,” he screamed. “F*** off! I’m Left! I voted for the peace process! I even look like a f***ing Palestinian.” The photographer swore furiously some more, fired himself from the job, told me that if it was up to them the Palestinians would only hire among themselves, and hung up.

The next day we visited the decimated Palestinian villages of Beit Hasan and Bardala, with a replacement. This photographer was from more acceptable territory as far as most Palestinians are concerned – west Jerusalem – but was, nevertheless, an Israeli of nonPalestinian appearance. Next to me in the car was Barbara Stocking, the head of Oxfam, who believes that “Palestinian suffering will only end if there is an end to occupation”. Stocking’s organisation is well known in Palestinian communities, but few Israelis have ever heard of it. Palestinians have received billions of dollars in aid since the Oslo Agreement in 1993. Could aid be part of the problem? It is Stocking’s view that “at Oxfam we think it is everybody’s right to have access to water”.

On our way south we drove on roads accessible only to Israelis and saw Palestinian land that had, as a result, become inaccessible to the farmers who lived on the wrong side of it. We saw Jewish settlements flourishing and surrounded by protective barbed wire.

The people from Oxfam ran through the statistics: the World Bank estimates that between 1999 and 2006, Palestinian gross domestic product per head fell by 40 per cent to $1,130, and 80 per cent of Palestinians are now thought to be dependent on aid. Unemployment is 40 per cent. The only answer to this is an end to Israeli occupation, says Oxfam, but the West Bank separation barrier – the wall that is interpreted either as an effective antiterrorist measure or a covert means for Israel to annex land from the Palestinians, depending on where you stand in this vastly complex debate – is growing at lightning speed and separating Palestinians from their livelihoods. The West Bank is described by the World Bank as a “shattered economic space”. Gaza? Since Hamas seized control of the territory and the area was blockaded, it can hardly be considered an economic space at all.

Worse than the smell of poverty is the look on the faces of the poor when they are forced, through destitution, into abject gratitude to their benefactors. In the Jordan Valley, Palestinian villagers explained how the Israelis had reduced their water supply and how, only with Oxfam’s help, they had managed to survive the past 12 months. We talked to a local farmer who boasted of European-standard organic tomatoes, thanks to a crop-saving donation of plastic sheeting, but we doubted that the tomatoes would ever travel beyond the local market. I sat there as the village council pleaded with Oxfam for more aid, having long ago come to terms with the humiliation of having to do so.

And when it all ended our photographer took me to one side and said: “This thing about the water – I’m sure Israeli farmers have to ration their water too.”

Everywhere you go in the region you are lobbied. Already on the El Al flight to Tel Aviv, Ben on my right was saying: “If you want to write this article I suggest you begin in 586BC with the Babylonian exile,” and complained about the pro-Pal-estinian bias of the BBC. Julian on my left was saying: “This whole thing comes down to an excess of testosterone,” then told me the story of when he quit the British Army because he was getting too much of a buzz from shooting people.

In west Jerusalem, a man from the foreign press department of the Israeli Government pressed a folder into my hand. Watching the Watchers is sponsored by an organisation called NGO Monitor, and argues that “the NGO exploitation of the rhetoric of human rights in order to attack Israel, their use of double standards, and the consistent absence of credibility in their reports, have eroded and essentially destroyed the core universality of this moral framework”. More leaflets followed, from Left and Right – a suitcaseful: Deleting Gaza’s Economy From the Map, The Torture and Ill-treatment of Palestinian Detainees, Israel’s Separation Policy and Forced Eviction of Palestinians from the Centre of Hebron.

A tipsy humanitarian worker told me: “There would be no terrorism if the Palestinians got their land.” A Christian missionary told me: “Palestinians must stop being victims.” A man high up in Palestinian political circles, if such a thing still exists, told me: “George Bush is the mirror image of Osama bin Laden.” A volunteer from another humanitarian organisation showed me footage of a settler woman in Hebron taunting a Palestinian woman in front of motionless Israeli soldiers. “You’re a whore,” she says. “And your daughter is a whore too.” When the volunteer drove me to Hebron to show me the “cage house” where a Palestinian family live behind bars for protection from violent settlers, Israeli soldiers refused us entry and she became embroiled in a 15-minute debate about civil liberties.

Later that day the man from the Israeli Government e-mailed me a link to a study which finds that: “The NGO use of classic antiSemitic themes such as the blood libel are found in Oxfam’s poster in 2002 of the ‘Israeli orange’, which promoted boycotting of Israeli products, and of Israel in general.” The few feeble attempts to establish a functioning Palestinian economy are nipped in the bud, even if they involve major investments from countries such as Britain. The Gaza Marine Field, an offshore gas reserve, is believed to contain natural gas worth about £2 billion, and it was expected to bolster the local economy after the British multinational BG Group bought the rights for commercial exploitation. After top-level talks between the British and the Israeli side, including Gordon Brown when he was Chancellor, as well as an investment in excess of £60 million on behalf of BG Group, the project has not yet moved from scratch because of Israeli opposition based on concern that revenues might end up in the hands of Hamas, as well as legal challenges from Israeli gas companies.

The UN says it is this close to having a humanitarian crisis on its hands. It may be politically incorrect to compare the Eres crossing into Gaza to a vast labyrinthine decontamination unit, but that’s what it felt like. At the other end of it, in Gaza, your first view is a panorama of rubble, the remnants of bombed-out factories. Your first thought, as a Western journalist, is will I be abducted (just as your last thought on exiting is, will I be accidentally shot by an Israeli border guard?). Your second thought is, how did it get so bad? And where are the Palestinian allies?

One despondent man told me he used to export strawberries: now his business is finished. “We have no friends around the world. The world exploits us. Even suicide bombers from abroad, they try and blow themselves up in our name, but they don’t think about what this does to us, the ordinary people who can’t even find food to eat.”

The Oxfam staff talked ebulliently about their kitchen gardens project, which is aimed at promoting self-sufficiency among some of the residents. The Palestinians hate their rulers and speak bitterly about Yassir Arafat’s widow living in splendour in Paris. “I hope the British will come and help us,” one told me. “They’re why we’re in this situation now.” Two things have happened since the death of Arafat: Palestinians have no central government and their leaders are corrupt and chaotic. Israelis continue to build walls and expand the settlements.

And symbolic of all of this is the wall. Oxfam says the barrier/wall costs Palestinians 2 to 3 per cent of GDP a year. Wherever you go you are followed by the wall, stalked by the wall: look around, there it is behind you or in front of you or beside you, often with another complementary wall running along behind it.

In this beautiful part of the world it is very grey, as if the pavement has risen up perpendicular to the soil, like fallen gravestones that have righted themselves overnight. Some walls are painted with trompe-l’oeils of false landscapes, but all are garlanded with barbed wire and bombs. In Bethlehem I met families driven crazy by the wall that now encircles their houses and cripples their businesses.

Moshe Dayan, the Israeli general and statesman, once famously told Palestinian refugees: “You shall continue to live like dogs, and whoever wishes may leave.” Here are people living like dogs, but they are fenced in, they can’t leave.

source

[danholo]

MPs compare Gaza to Warsaw ghetto

Politicians are probably known by their ambition, zeal and arrogance. Intelligence, however, isn't usually attributed to these people. Maybe they should visit a course at Yad Vashem and then a course on the Israeli-Arab conflict. You should, too, because your posts are become more ridiculous by the day. Soon you'll liken the Gaza strip, which is NOT a ghetto, to be worse then the Warsaw ghetto, or any other ghetto for that matter.

[sploop!]

Soon you'll liken the Gaza strip, which is NOT a ghetto, to be worse then the Warsaw ghetto, or any other ghetto for that matter.

Keep saying it: Gaza is not a ghetto, Gaza is not a ghetto... maybe it'll become true.

[Maas]

That isn't true. Show me one pro-Israel poster who has celebrated Palestinian deaths, or been happy about them. No one here wants Palestinians to die, but they also don't want Israeli civilians to die either.

"When committing to asymmetrical warfare, one should not whine like a bitch after the aforementioned deadly and powerful U.S. made military hardware is dumped on them."
source.... as far as not giving crap about collateral dammage.

I would agree with this before the Gazans elected Hamas. You can't vote for Hamas overwhelmingly and then bitch about the consequences.

meah.... your about the same.
Overwhelmingly winning... that's what Putins puppet did / elections in China.
Hamas got 76 out of 132 seats. That still leaves a big chuck of people you don't mind starving to death that much / running down the moral ladder towards barbarism. Assuming everybody who voted on Hamas automatically want war is narrowminded. That's dismissing the argument that a lot of them dislike the nepotism and corruption of Fatah way more. There are probably other arguments as well, besides war.

The Palestinians were given a tremendous opportunity in 2005 to show the world how they would run their future state; and like usual, they blew it.

The Palestinians never were given anything in return for how they were kicked out of their houses. And people still think they must be the once that show the world things first. That whole democratic thing was just rediculous by the way. It already was bad, than it became a lil civil war, and now this. A lot of good democracy did. That one wasn't their idea, but were made to do and now we blaim them for fucking it up.

[danholo]

Keep saying it: Gaza is not a ghetto, Gaza is not a ghetto... maybe it'll become true.

So, do you actually know what a ghetto is, or aren't you seeing little green men in your head like all the others who can't discern reality from fantasy? You're so religious that you'll come up with any ridiculous assertion to brand Israelis as racist fascists. You believe it so much that you think I'm the infidel for not thinking bad about my people, they're intent and motives.

Thanks! I won't hate my own people but you can!

[Impulse]

Attack in Jerusalem ***Breaking***

In other news theres a sale today in wall mart and jimmy the turtle was released back into his pond.

[Arthur2sheds_Jackson]

Warangel:

But can you demonstrate where I have shown 'hatred of jews and Israel'?

Oh, just about every second post you make... how about your current tirade against the Jews, portraying us as weak and mindless sheep? And this is just your latest.

So you can't demonstrate where I have shown 'hatred of jews and Israel'?
I wouldn't have bothered replying if that is the best you can offer.

So you've posted a list of the exceptions.

Which proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the Jews did NOT go like lambs to the slaughter, thus negating your earlier argument completely.

You are lying.
My earlier statement was:

The greatest collaborators were the jews themselves, almost without exception they went meekly to their deaths. No struggle, no resistance, just compliance.

In no way what you have written negates my earlier point completely.
The vast majority of jewish victims of the Holocaust did go like lambs to the slaughter.
You list of extremely rare revolts by victims of the holocaust backs up my case.

BTW one of your links covered a revolt by gypsies not jews - how very clever.
Please try to be honest.

You clearly have no idea what any of this means. We are talking about civilians with NO military training, no weapons, no food and very little to keep them going. Most of them are very ill, practically half-dead, weighing around a third of what they should weigh, fighting one of the most terrible, well-oiled and fearsome war-machines to have ever plagued this Earth.

As MVictorP pointed out this is the same situation the palestinians are in today for the most part.
I bet your heart bleeds for their plight.