[geb]

Chinlone is an ancient Burmese non-competitive activity, very similar to modern soccer (although unrelated) in that it exclusively involves the skillful art of foot play (also comparable to the more developed Chinese game of cuju and other neighboring varieties).

[Nets]

I don't think kick round object around took a brain trust to invent. I am guessing the cavemen did it too.

[Prosthetic Conscience]

Since Wikipedia says cuju is older, and cuju is a competitive sport that even had goals and teams, then no.

[Rancid]

I don't think kick round object around took a brain trust to invent. I am guessing the cavemen did it too.

Exactly, it's much like trying to figure out when weightlifting or sprinting became sports.

[geb]

Since Wikipedia says cuju is older, and cuju is a competitive sport that even had goals and teams, then no.

Chinlone is at least 1,500 years old ; and judging from its originality one can estimate it to be much older than cuju, especially if one takes into account the earliest possible forms before caneballs were invented.

[Prosthetic Conscience]

Since Wikipedia says cuju is older, and cuju is a competitive sport that even had goals and teams, then no.
Chinlone is at least 1,500 years old ; and judging from its originality one can estimate it to be much older than cuju, especially if one takes into account the earliest possible forms before caneballs were invented.

And cuju was "first mentioned as an exercise in a military work from 3rd–2nd century BC". So it's about 7 centuries older. Just saying "well, it could be older, thought we have no evidence at all that it is" is meaningless. "Judging from its originality one can estimate it to be much older" is meaningless too.

[Zionist Nationalist]

What is soccer?

its football. you can call the American thing soccer since there you dont kick the ball 99% of the time

[geb]

What is soccer?

its football. you can call the American thing soccer since there you dont kick the ball 99% of the time

American football isn't a form of soccer ; in that case footvolley could also be one.

And cuju was "first mentioned as an exercise in a military work from 3rd–2nd century BC". So it's about 7 centuries older. Just saying "well, it could be older, thought we have no evidence at all that it is" is meaningless. "Judging from its originality one can estimate it to be much older" is meaningless too.

Chinlone being older than cuju doesn't imperatively require tangible proof of its existence before the 3rd century BC, given attestations of this sort of activity are very unlikely prior to then; so to judge it as meaningless is simply narrow-minded and arrogant.

[Thompson_NCL]

:eh: American football isn't a form of soccer ; in that case footvolley could also be one.

He isn't saying American Football is a form of "soccer". He's saying that football is the name of the sport Americans call soccer.

[ThirdTerm]

Episkyros in ancient Greece could be the oldest form of football, which was practised in ancient Greece by 2000 BC. The ball was made out of pig bladder and it was tightly wrapped with leather. A competitive form of cuju in China, which was used as fitness training for military cavaliers, may be an imitation of Harpastum, a ball game played in the Roman Empire for the same purpose.

Around 2000 BC, the Greeks played a game called episkyros. The game was played primarily by men and sometimes women. Regardless of their gender, the Greeks usually played nude.
A marble relief from the National Museum of Archeology in Athens shows an athlete balancing the ball on his thigh, supposedly teaching the technique to a boy. This very same image is nowadays featured on the European Cup trophy. The ball seen in the relief is clearly a “follis” or an inflated ball. Early balls were made of linen and hair wrapped in string and sewn together. These probably would not have bounced very well. Later Greek balls like the follis were made from inflated pig bladders wrapped in tight leather.
http://expertfootball.com/wp/?p=719

[geb]

Episkyros in ancient Greece could be the oldest form of football, which was practised in ancient Greece by 2000 BC. The ball was made out of pig bladder and it was tightly wrapped with leather. A competitive form of cuju in China, which was used as fitness training for military cavaliers, may be an imitation of Harpastum, a ball game played in the Roman Empire for the same purpose.

Neither episkyros nor harpastum revolve around foot play though... handling is a much more important aspect to both.

[Prosthetic Conscience]

Before we get carried away, the '2000 BC' date looks made up. The marble relief dates from around 400 BC. Since Linear B only dates back to 1450 BC or so, and that's the earliest Greek writing that has been deciphered, saying there was a game with a specific name in 2000 BC just looks like an invention. Perhaps they meant 200 BC?

Chinlone being older than cuju doesn't imperatively require tangible proof of its existence before the 3rd century BC, given attestations of this sort of activity are very unlikely prior to then; so to judge it as meaningless is simply narrow-minded and arrogant.

And cuju could be centuries older too. There could have been football-like games all over the place. But if you want to name the oldest, you need some evidence, not just someone saying "they could have been playing it, but we just have no idea".

[geb]

And cuju could be centuries older too. There could have been football-like games all over the place. But if you want to name the oldest, you need some evidence, not just someone saying "they could have been playing it, but we just have no idea".

If the first records of Chinlone appeared 1,500 years ago, then the game is presumably much older, by centuries if not millennia... The fact that we have no other comparable records outside SE Asia suggests that Burma is more than likely to be the birthplace of the oldest form of « football » in the world i.e.: exclusive foot play.

If another substantial form of football had appeared earlier elsewhere, it would have presumably persevered into Antiquity and modern times... but we have no records of it.

[Prosthetic Conscience]

If the first records of Chinlone appeared 1,500 years ago, then the game is presumably much older, by centuries if not millennia... The fact that we have no other comparable records outside SE Asia suggests that Burma is more than likely to be the birthplace of the oldest form of « football » in the world i.e.: exclusive foot play.

If another substantial form of football had appeared earlier elsewhere, it would have presumably persevered into Antiquity and modern times... but we have no records of it.

But we do have older records - cuju, in China, about 700 years older. That suggests it is older than chinlone.

[Potemkin]

Somebody wake me up when they hold a World Cup for chinlone or cujo. *zzzzzzz....*

[Rancid]

I thought the game was played with the severed heads of slaves?

[geb]

I thought the game was played with the severed heads of slaves?

Isn't that for the meso-american version?

But we do have older records - cuju, in China, about 700 years older. That suggests it is older than chinlone.

For cuju, as an official game it is much more likely that the first records appeared as soon as the game was invented; which is why I believe that Chinlone, although attested later is much more likely to have been conceived before its first recordings and therefore older than cuju...

[geb]

The world's best soccer talent is in Burma :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahOazpUhE10