[Pants-of-dog]

The OP is vague. What exactly did he say?

[Atlantis]

There is a call for violence against foreigners and an increase of violence against foreigners.

[Frollein]

There's an increase of foreigners against Germans, but I don't see you yapping about it here.

Oh, hey, speaking of "calls for violence," what's your take on this, Atlantis (as you seem to be the expert on hate speech here):

The site "Indymedia linksunten" that spreads "subversive messages in dark times" calls for "destroying the prison system, whether indoors or out - until all are free." One could of course see this as a call for violence, but nobody wants to do that, because indymedia comes from the bottom left, and Heiko Maas specializes in the "fight against the right" while Claudia Roth is currently busy. Moreover, Indymedia Germany has even been nominated for a prize in "media competence" by the Grimme Institute and awarded a prize of the Rosa Luxembourg Foundation. Yes, there's good violence and then there's bad violence.

That's the same site that has also called for "deglassing and hot scrapping" of random cars, btw.

[Political Interest]

If there is no definition of hate speech, anything can be interpreted as such, even valid criticism of the government's policy. It is simply not possible under these conditions to "use language that cannot be interpreted in such a way."

(I'm not saying that this was the case here - just pointing out the general unconstitutionality of this hate speech policy)

It is possible to criticise the government's policies without ever saying anything that could be contrived as hate speech.

You can criticise it without ever mentioning Muslims or refugees.

There are many ways to present a very effective and strong message without violating this law.

For example, you could say that Merkel's policy is impractical and ineffective and that it violates security. There is no need to mention anything about ethnicity or religion in such a statement. You can also criticise mass immigration by speaking about how it will result in native Europeans becoming an ethnic minority in their own homelands. This cannot ever be interpreted as hate speech because you are not directing enmity towards other ethnicities.

[Frollein]

You can criticise it without ever mentioning Muslims or refugees.

How can you critizise something when you are not allowed to mention the subject of your criticism?

Political correctness is communist propaganda in miniature. In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.» - Theodore Dalrymple

[Pants-of-dog]

Theodore Dalrymple is such a victim. He is oh so oppressed by the humiliation of using language that does not involve ethnic, racial or sexist slurs. Yes, Teddy, it is all about you and has nothing to do with not being rude to women, LGBT people, minorities, and other people who are not like you.

[Frollein]

Funny, whenever you post it's like white noise...

[Pants-of-dog]

I also enjoy the fact that you never contradict my arguments.

Now, Mr. Dalrymple is obviously quite narcissistic in thinking that PC language was designed specifically to humiliate and oppress him. It is, instead, the culmination of the efforts of many different movements, where each movement more or less forced us to stop using bigoted slurs. This dismissal or ignorance of the efforts of minorities is common in critiques of progressive movements, much like critiques of socialism are devoid of historical facts.

Also, his claim of deception makes no sense at all. Is it somehow decpetive to call a black person "black" instead of "N*****"?

[Albert]

Progressives: They love humanity so much, that they will throw you in jail if you refuse to "progress".

[Pants-of-dog]

Yes, Albert, you are such a victim of the evil PC police. How much time have you spent in jail as a political prisoner for your beliefs? I hear jails in Toronto are notoriously clean and safe.

[Albert]

[Pants-of-dog]

Yes, they will, but we wil continue dragging them (kicking and screaming) into a better, more egalitarian future.

[hartmut]

You do know that there is no legal definition of 'hate speech'? It can be whatever your prosecutor wants it to be. ......

That is wrong. The applied definition, which is fairly clear, is to be found in German StGB §130.
It is equally wrong that such decisions of the courts are done arbitrarily, or that Germany or other civilized countries are ruled by despotism. True however, some contemporaries from the political extreme try to propagate such a view.

[Frollein]

§130 is Volksverhetzung, which is not the same as "hate speech" - that is a term that had been imported from the US in order to censor Facebook. Interestingly, left extremists aren't harrassed when they call for violence online. But then, Stasi officer Kahane is on the same side of the spectrum.

[hartmut]

§130 is Volksverhetzung, which is not the same as "hate speech" - ..

indeed.
But the thread is about "hate propaganda" (Volksverhetzung, StGB § 130, maybe you read it, if you can spare the time, which seems to be filled by less enlightening activities)
..and not about a therm you use by your own special preference.

So "hate propagana",
to call in clear words in the public for pogroms and killing other people,
is a subject to penal law.
At least in Germany so. (it would be interesting how the UK handles such matter, .. as I don't know)

And as the Germans failed in history by an unparalleled mass murder, incinerated by exactly such "hate propaganda" it is very reasonable for them to hinder it, by dropping a penalty on it.
So, what is the problem here?

Beside, of course, of the annoyance of some fellas, that want to do exactly this:
To tell the public, that some kind of people are not humans, and they should not be regarded and treated as humans.
But only if you do it combined with publicly asking others for violence against groups of the own population, it is penalized.

It is easy to see, that some folks do not like even that,
but also not to hard to perceive on which attitude such is based.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

And as the Germans failed in history by an unparalleled mass murder, incinerated by exactly such "hate propaganda" it is very reasonable for them to hinder it, by dropping a penalty on it.

Can I take that whip from you, hartmut? It might be more satisfying if somebody else does the whipping.

[The Sabbaticus]

The German government has a double standard for where it concerns its policy issues. It has been repeatedly caught prevaricating and dissembling in support of its new social engineering projects, notably the mass introduction of hundreds of thousands of illegal and undocumented immigrants from MENA countries. That a sizeable portion of the German population no longer trusts its own government due to these scandals is only natural.

It's all a bit too suspicious.

The alarming birthrates and demographic statistics in major German cities will only add more fuel to the fire. The German government will only become more and more totalitarian in the name of 'freedom, equality and justice' for all. All of course in order to keep its self-inflicted Yugoslavian nightmare from happening in a couple of decades or so.

[Frollein]

On the other hand, a judge in Hamburg just let five gypsies (sorry - Serbs) go free, who had raped and tortured a 14 year old girl and then put her naked into the freezing cold to die. Reason - they have a "good social prognosis and showed remorse for what they did." According to the newspapers, the guys high-fived already when they entered and then again, of course, when they left.

I guess this kind of justice sits right with hartmut and Atlantis - after all, the better humans shouldn't be put in jail for rape, torture and attempted murder; that would be over the top. It's more important to put people into jail who don't applaud this policy.

[blackjack21]

On the other hand, a judge in Hamburg just let five gypsies (sorry - Serbs) go free, who had raped and tortured a 14 year old girl and then put her naked into the freezing cold to die. Reason - they have a "good social prognosis and showed remorse for what they did." According to the newspapers, the guys high-fived already when they entered and then again, of course, when they left.

I guess this kind of justice sits right with hartmut and Atlantis - after all, the better humans shouldn't be put in jail for rape, torture and attempted murder; that would be over the top. It's more important to put people into jail who don't applaud this policy.

Yeah, that was going to be my next question. How much time did the Muslim asylum seekers get for their sexual assaults on German women? I'm guessing none...

[Pants-of-dog]

These off topic pleas to emotion, in the guise of rape stories, are neither relevant nor based on anything more than feelings.