[Zagadka]

Some Machines Are Flipping Votes, But That Doesn't Mean They're Rigged
http://www.npr.org/2016/10/26/499450796 ... yre-rigged

Vote flipping. The stories and conspiracy theories have begun.

In every recent election, there have been reports of voters pressing one candidate's name on a touch-screen machine, only to have the opponent's name light up instead.

It can be unnerving for voters and often leads to allegations that the machines have been "rigged" to favor one candidate over another.

Enter election 2016, when the word "rigged" is more politically charged than ever. In the first few days of early voting, there are already scattered reports of vote-flipping machines in North Carolina, Texas and Nevada.

The North Carolina chapter of the NAACP sent a letter to the state's board of elections Monday after voters complained that machines had flipped votes in five counties. The group noted that, in each case, the voter was able to correct the error before the ballot was cast. But it asked the board to remove malfunctioning machines and to post signs reminding voters to check their ballots before submitting them.

The board replied that it takes the concerns seriously and advised voters to double-check their ballots. It said the machines were tested before the election and are recalibrated each day before voting begins. And, if needed, problem machines would be taken out of service.

In Texas, a handful of voters in at least three counties reported that they had selected straight Republican tickets, only to have Clinton/Kaine pop up instead of Trump/Pence. Local election officials blamed user error and said there was nothing wrong with the machines. There were similar reports in Clark County, Nev.

That led some groups worried about vote-rigging to take to social media to warn voters to ask for paper ballots instead of using touch-screen machines.

"I knew this election would be stolen," read one comment on Breitbart.com, a conservative website that until recently was run by Donald Trump's campaign manager, Stephen Bannon. "People need to go to jail for this crap," read another.

Election officials in Louisiana and Georgia warned voters on Tuesday not to believe everything they see on social media and that they have seen no such problems in their states. They said they don't want people to be discouraged from voting.

So what's going on? Are the machines rigged?

No, says just about every voting technology expert.

"If you were actually trying to rig an election, it would be a very stupid thing to do, to let the voter know that you were doing it," says Larry Norden, with the Brennan Center for Justice in New York.

He notes that one reason voters are so concerned about vote flipping is that they see it happen right in front of them on the voting machine screen. They press A and B lights up. "I do think if somebody was hacking into a machine they wouldn't do this, to kind of notify the voter that the machine wasn't working," he says.

Norden thinks the real problem is that voting machines used in much of the country are old, more than 10 years in most places. The machines rely on outdated technology — some of it is from the 1990s — to calibrate the touch screens. And the hardware is starting to wear out.

"Over time, as people vote, that calibration becomes less and less accurate," says Norden. So by the end of a long day of voting, the machines aren't as accurate as they were in the morning. Also, the sealant that attaches the screen to the machine can deteriorate over time, which causes the screen to be misaligned.

Voters can usually change the selection to the right one before their ballot is cast. If not, they can let a poll worker know there's a problem so they can move to a machine that works. In many places, such machines also have paper ballot backups, if there's ever a question about the vote.

Of course, another problem can be human error. A voter might think they're touching one box, but accidentally touch another. Even long fingernails have been blamed for such mistakes in the past.

Two machines were already removed from an early voting site in Mecklenburg County, N.C., after complaints of vote flipping. Officials say technicians were unable to duplicate the problem.

Norden says voters will probably see more of this in the days to come, and he's worried about it causing long lines at some polling places if machines are taken out of service.

But he's more worried about the impact of rumors that vote-flipping is widespread and part of some conspiracy, when in reality, it's a problem that's easily fixed and fairly confined.

[The Immortal Goon]

Everyone should have vote-by-mail.

But it will never happen as that favours the left as working people could then vote easily and study the issues while voting.

Voting suppression and ignorance favours the big parties.

[Zagadka]

I'm not a fan of digital systems. Sometimes the most dumb (tech wise) systems are the last susceptible to being screwed up or compromise. I got a notice that my ballot was received, I feel happy.

Also, I think that a surprising number of Americans don't know that they can vote before election day, by mail or at poll sites. Also, election day should be a national holiday anyway.

[Decky]

Voting is overrated anyway.

[Hong Wu]

It's pretty much impossible to make a programming error like this and not catch it if you want to, while having it work in only one candidate's favor.

And why does Soros own voting machines? Not exactly a high profit industy by most people's standards.

So a guy like Soros owns tons of voting machines, which make no money and are admittedly flipping votes towards his candidate, but we're conspiracy theorists.

[Rich]

Everyone should have vote-by-mail.

We already have massive amounts of by-mail Muslim vote fraud in the UK. This allows Muslim men to control the votes in their household, as well as creating fictitious / dead electors. No people should vote in person, alone in the booth and by hand.

Anyway I thought you were a Leninist /Stalinist. Lenin Stalin and Trotsky couldn't give a toss about fair elections.

[The Immortal Goon]

We already have massive amounts of by-mail Muslim vote fraud in the UK.

Because the UK has always been the epitome of democracy?

No people should vote in person, alone in the booth and by hand.

No, workers should only be allowed to vote with the discretion of their employers and have no paper trail to assess the validity of their vote.

Anyway I thought you were a Leninist /Stalinist. Lenin Stalin and Trotsky couldn't give a toss about fair elections.

To answer the last portion first, despite what may have come later, Soviet democracy is the most fair system ever devised.

Now Rich, how many years have you been throwing ridiculous posts to me, only to be corrected before you slink back into the dark to lick your wounds?

Secondly, I'm no Stalinist because I'm a Leninist. And as of yet, I've never had anybody able to explain how SIOC can be reconciled with Lenin.

[LV-GUCCI-PRADA-FLEX]

Soros has no connections to any voting machines. Also since when is Soros some kind of boogeyman responsible for all the world's corruption? I just want to scream sometimes.

Even though this article may have some right information, it sounds like a shitty pander piece. Why does news report on fucking comments of a Breitbart article like that's a thing to do nowadays? No wonder the right hates journalists, they are too fucking lazy to do anything except make a few phone calls and google searches and call it a day.

[SpecialOlympian]

Soros has no connections to any voting machines. Also since when is Soros some kind of boogeyman responsible for all the world's corruption? I just want to scream sometimes.

He's rich and (((Jewish))) and doesn't hate Muslims, so he's a convenient boogey man for the alt-right tards. He's been a target for years, I remember Glenn Beck writing his name on one of his whiteboards.

[The Immortal Goon]

Also since when is Soros some kind of boogeyman responsible for all the world's corruption?

Yeah, that's really tough. What in Western society might possibly be a clue to why right-wingers would start blaming their problems on an international Jewish person in an imaginary conspiracy?

[Beren]

Also since when is Soros some kind of boogeyman responsible for all the world's corruption? I just want to scream sometimes.

Especially for you: viewtopic.php?p=14729038#p14729038

[Rugoz]

despite what may have come later, Soviet democracy is the most fair system ever devised.

It's terrible, the most indirect system conceivable.

[The Immortal Goon]

It's terrible, the most indirect system conceivable.

It's indirect to have a democracy in your workplace that functions also as democracy of the state?

You are literally interacting with the state democracy when you work.

In a bourgeois republic, you separate everything out into abstractions that you have no direct interaction with. How many times have you talked to your representative compared to your work colleague?

[Senter]

How about an audit trail?

[Rugoz]

It's indirect to have a democracy in your workplace that functions also as democracy of the state?

You are literally interacting with the state democracy when you work.

In a bourgeois republic, you separate everything out into abstractions that you have no direct interaction with. How many times have you talked to your representative compared to your work colleague?

Lots of politics is local, so it makes more sense to pick a "neighborhood representative" instead of a "workplace representative". At the beginning of the last century when to two were more closely connected it might have made more sense.

Also a personal relationship is impossible. Let's say there's a guy representing 10k people, there's no way he's going to have a personal relationship with everyone. If you make the system hierarchical with smaller constituencies and multiple "levels", you only have a personal relationship with the representative on the first level, but not with all the representatives in the levels above. Worse, the guy representing 10k only answers to the few representatives below him, and not all the 10k. Sounds like a good system for maximizing corruption.