[Frollein]

But anyway, the worrying thing is that China can extend a sphere of influence into Africa. If they control development of cities, transportation, telecommunications, etc... the continent is ripe for the plucking.

Yes, how dare China invest in Africa, after the West has poured so much money down that drain...

[Zagadka]

Yes, how dare China invest in Africa, after the West has poured so much money down that drain... :lol:

Poured money, not built infrastructure.

[QatzelOk]

China is full of empty artificial cities.

Cities grow over centuries.

Normal cities grow over centuries, but those that are built to host an industrial revolution can be built in decades, like in China in the 20th Century and America in the late 19th.

Most important, cities must be built for a social purpose. In the case of recent China and earlier America, cities were built to host farmers taking on jobs at factories.

In the case of the coup government of Egypt allowing China to build it a kitsch Versailles, it's ominous because it's a waste of resources that serves no productive purpose.

Those defending that this city will be "made in China" must believe in Santa Claus if they don't think there will be major costs to the people of Egypt for this unneeded project.

[Igor Antunov]

Egypt has a huge rural population that would benefit from further urbanization. There would be no shortage of migrant residents.

[QatzelOk]

Egypt has a huge rural population that would benefit from further urbanization. There would be no shortage of migrant residents.

There are already plenty of cities in Egypt with already-existing infrastructure.
There is no need to build a new city with a new government on empty land that is better off left empty.

Unbelievably corrupt government you got there, Eej.

[Eauz]

Question: Can China come and spend its money to build new cities in North America? This would help with our infrastructure deficits.

[Tewodros III]

I support wholeheartedly in their influence,money and infrastructure in Africa, all Africans countries should be like Durete and tell the West, especially America to go to hell.

[benpenguin]

Normal cities grow over centuries, but those that are built to host an industrial revolution can be built in decades, like in China in the 20th Century and America in the late 19th.

Well, by your logic here, we can flush those "city planning" studies down the drain, because cities gets built exclusively by the invisible hand. Planned city construction is one of the greatest feat of the planned economy, but just because you don't see it that much in the capitalist world doesn't mean the whole thing is fiction.
But if you want to believe "cartoon tyrants have too much power" Hollywood trope, go ahead and dismiss every Chinese city as "ghost town"...
Again, I am not cheerleading the Egyptian project - it could very much fail due to inexperience or unrealistic expectations, I'm only saying, give it a chance...

[QatzelOk]

Well, by your logic here, we can flush those "city planning" studies down the drain, because cities gets built exclusively by the invisible hand. Planned city construction is one of the greatest feat of the planned economy, but just because you don't see it that much in the capitalist world doesn't mean the whole thing is fiction.
But if you want to believe "cartoon tyrants have too much power" Hollywood trope, go ahead and dismiss every Chinese city as "ghost town"...

I'm not dismissing them as ghost towns. I'm saying that cities that endure are built over the long-term. American cities went up like Hollywood sets in the late 19th and throughout the 20th Century. Nobody ever thought that a city of five million people (Detroit) could suddenly go bankrupt and have no industry to sustain it. But like Chicago and like St. Louis, it was a quickly-built city in a quickly-built (stolen) country. In Canada, we have many disposable cities like this but they are usually much smaller. It's heart-breaking to see them dry up and blow away, but they were also built as one-use company towns, and never had a very good quality of life or any kind of culture, and these two things seem to be related.

[benpenguin]

Well, if the Egyptians think their old capital has outgrown itself, what's the harm in planning ahead of the outgrowth?

[Tewodros III]

No Chinaman, these reactionaries are a lost cause, focus your effort on the former Marxist state, that's building socialism.

[Albert]

I'm not dismissing them as ghost towns. I'm saying that cities that endure are built over the long-term. American cities went up like Hollywood sets in the late 19th and throughout the 20th Century. Nobody ever thought that a city of five million people (Detroit) could suddenly go bankrupt and have no industry to sustain it. But like Chicago and like St. Louis, it was a quickly-built city in a quickly-built (stolen) country. In Canada, we have many disposable cities like this but they are usually much smaller. It's heart-breaking to see them dry up and blow away, but they were also built as one-use company towns, and never had a very good quality of life or any kind of culture, and these two things seem to be related.

All cities are planned in essence. Modern Paris for example is planned city. It was heavily redesigned and rebuild in 19th century from its medieval development. To make the city more livable as the old medieval city design was not sustainable anymore.

London too after The Great Fire was rebuild anew by planning.

This is just how things get done.

Also this shows how far the Chinese have advanced in a span of couple of decades. Where middle eastern countries are hiring them to design and engineer their cities. Where as before it would usually be some European nation or America.

This also begs the quistion why have Egyptians not advanced themselves like the Chinese have done.

[Potemkin]

This also begs the quistion why have Egyptians not advanced themselves like the Chinese have done.

One word, Albert: Communism. As Churchill said of Stalin: "He found Russia with the wooden plough, and left it with the atomic bomb."

[Albert]

@Potemkin let's get this clear once and for all. You are talking to a man who believes Russia would had been better off in every way, if it was not for communist. Dont get me wrong, there are many good point to take away from communism. But it's fault outweigh the positives considerably.

[Political Interest]

There were many options for Russia. Communism was not the only way. Afterall Ataturk modernised Turkey without needing to become a communist.

[Decky]

Yea, after all if Turkey is famous for one thing it is its modernity.

[The Sabbaticus]

Egypt already has under-utilized 'ghost cities' which were part of an urban expansion program in order to deal with the population surplus. Wonder if they were also built on arable land, like Cairo itself was. Egypt's arable land is rapidly being devoured by urban planners, all in a desperate bid to accommodate the surplus of people.

Cairo doesn't have a housing problem, it has an unsustainable overpopulation problem.

[QatzelOk]

All cities are planned in essence. Modern Paris for example is planned city. It was heavily redesigned and rebuild in 19th century from its medieval development. To make the city more livable as the old medieval city design was not sustainable anymore.

Paris emerged over a long period of time. It wasn't created overnight like some of the Chinese industrial cities were. And the only reason that the boulevards were added by Hausmann was to facilitate social control, not to "sustain" anything or help anyone.

London too after The Great Fire was rebuild anew by planning.
This is just how things get done.

Fires used to create "urban renewal" when structures were made of wood, homes were heated by fire, and everyone smoked.

Also this shows how far the Chinese have advanced in a span of couple of decades. Where middle eastern countries are hiring them to design and engineer their cities. Where as before it would usually be some European nation or America.

This also begs the quistion why have Egyptians not advanced themselves like the Chinese have done.

Libya was able to build an underground reservoir that could feed all of Africa's water needs for 500 years. And then NATO destroyed that country and all its accomplishments. Meanwhile, China hasn't been attacked by the Western bankster nations in many decades. This should answer the question that you begged for.

[starman2003]

This also begs the quistion why have Egyptians not advanced themselves like the Chinese have done.

Too much defense spending and wartime damage (which were of course linked to the inability of stupid leadership to stand up to Israel). Also, failure to control overpopulation, and socialism without effective authoritarianism. In other words they killed a lot of incentive without coercing society to modernize like Stalin did.

[Thompson_NCL]

Yea, after all if Turkey is famous for one thing it is its modernity.

Is this a serious comment? Compared to other Middle Eastern nations, secular Turkey was vastly more modern.