Fat People, And What Should be Done About Them - Page 8 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Provision of the two UN HDI indicators other than GNP.
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#14745785
Good Lord. There are sure some insensitive assholes in this thread. What should be done about fat people is nothing but education, compassion and encouragement IF IF IF IF IF they WANT WANT WANT to loose weight. If they don't it is none of my fucking business.
#14745788
jaydedjen110 wrote:How about leaving us alone and minding your own business? Seems like a good place to start.

I'm aware my weight is a problem and I'm working to fix it. Having people judge me every step of the way doesn't help.

Are you sure about that?

Negative feedback is often the best measure of the things you should improve.

I used to have very bad breath, and people's negative feedback (people judging me) lead me to check in with my dentist where I found out I needed minor dental work and to floss more thoroughly.

Imagine if, instead, I had acted all hurt and turned to my "bad breath community" for support.
#14745794
Drlee wrote:Good Lord. There are sure some insensitive assholes in this thread. What should be done about fat people is nothing but education, compassion and encouragement IF IF IF IF IF they WANT WANT WANT to loose weight. If they don't it is none of my fucking business.

Sure, if they're someone that I don't know, that's fine. Individuals. But I have relatives, and I don't want them to be fat (or extremely skinny for that matter). I want them to be healthy, and being fat is not healthy. It is a slow suicide. Also as a collective we need to encourage people to eat proper portions and exercise regularly. Taking the attitude of "it's not my problem" doesn't work when fat people are a drain on the medical system and the environment.

I also have a problem with fat people blaming their problems on their genetics or anything other than their own eating habits, unless there are very specific diseases that prevent them from losing weight.

None of this means that they can't be good people, just that they should lose weight.
#14745962
Fat people are not a "drain on the medical system". That is a myth. Nor do they necessarily consume more food than does a person of "normal" weight so they are not a
"drain on the environment".

We can't play this game. Your argument and that of most of the "fat bashers" is at its heart one of physical attractiveness. There is no need denying it. I am not buying the "I want my mom to be healthy" argument. Your assertion that making obese people feel bad will make them lose weight is not only clinically untrue, it is rude and boorish.

My hero of this thread Jayden who bravely discussed his own issues.

Here is the thing that people do not consider. In order to be clinically obese, mister 160 pound 25 year old, all you have to do is gain one pound per year and by the time you are 50 you will likely be clinically obese. Not much sloth involved in gaining one pound per year. Or if you are the 4 year old who tends to put on weight easier than his/her peers, unless your parents are relentless in managing your diet you will likely be way overweight long before you are old enough to have a say. Then in your most impressionable years you can't get the date you want, other children taunt you and your self esteem takes a rolling broadside.

Then there is this. Sexiness. There are studies that show that women like bigger men rather than smaller ones. Even if they are overweight. But even that doesn't really matter. What matters is that you find the partner who finds you sexy whether you are 160 and cut or 350 and just fit. And by fit I mean not debilitated by your weight. I have a good friend who is the quintessential Hollywood doctor. He is 45 and cut like a 30 year old. He is a runner and lifter. He could give any Hollywood actor a run for his money. And he is rich and single. He literally has his choice of women and they make that known to him every day. He loves heavy women. Always dates them. It is just his personal preference. He does not find the fashion model types sexy at all. I know women who are just beautiful who prefer bigger men.

Then there is this issue. Selling out to the "snack industry" our mostly conservative politicians have stuffed our schools with unhealthy food. And they have cut breakfast programs for children. They have cut day-care programs where healthier food can be stipulated. And in the efforts to teach children STEM, left just about all of the school health programs aside while ignoring unhealthy food advertising aimed right at children.

So the read deal is that what we should do about fat people is to leave them to their doctors and their loved ones. IF and only IF their doctors believe there is a problem then steps can be taken to help the overweight people lose enough to solve the problem.

Meanwhile I wish every fat person in the world, confronted by a judgmental busybody would fire back at them. "Your fat. Yea? Well you are ugly and I can lose weight."
#14745975
Obesity problem in the states comes from bad food supply. Big corporations, no surprise again, basically created an atmosphere were unhealthy food flooded the market. This is all again is done in the name of profit and the US government in cahoots lets businesses get away with it.

As sugary and fatty produce is much more appealing to the taste then healthy wholesome produce. People are naturally drawn to it. If you create a situation where unhealthy foodstuffs become normalized, you get an obesity epidemic like you do in the states.

How many are there there junk fast food businesses are there, and how many are there places that sell healthy foods?

Also destroying family structure with feminism did not help the situation either. As before women made sure that their husbands and kids were properly fed at home. Now with both parents working, healthy diet is extremely harder to achieve.
#14745981
Just count your calories, and maintain a deficit of about 400.

This is the only good advice. The rest is a waste of time. Create a spreadsheet and keep track. It even helps curb some of the hunger pains if you know when your next scheduled meal is. I would also recommend, if possible, eating a small something every 2 hours instead of eating meals.
#14745995
Drlee wrote:Fat people are not a "drain on the medical system". That is a myth. Nor do they necessarily consume more food than does a person of "normal" weight so they are not a
"drain on the environment".


Yes, they do. It is physically impossible for them to gain weight without consuming more food than is normal.

We can't play this game. Your argument and that of most of the "fat bashers" is at its heart one of physical attractiveness. There is no need denying it. I am not buying the "I want my mom to be healthy" argument. Your assertion that making obese people feel bad will make them lose weight is not only clinically untrue, it is rude and boorish.


Notice how we are not bashing ugly people or demanding that everyone have the physique of a Greek god.

My hero of this thread Jayden who bravely discussed his own issues.

Here is the thing that people do not consider. In order to be clinically obese, mister 160 pound 25 year old, all you have to do is gain one pound per year and by the time you are 50 you will likely be clinically obese. Not much sloth involved in gaining one pound per year. Or if you are the 4 year old who tends to put on weight easier than his/her peers, unless your parents are relentless in managing your diet you will likely be way overweight long before you are old enough to have a say. Then in your most impressionable years you can't get the date you want, other children taunt you and your self esteem takes a rolling broadside.


That's ridiculous. No one is saying you have to obsessively keep track of your weight. You just have to weigh yourself (maybe even just once a year) and if your BMI has increased too much, take steps to reverse that.

Then there is this. Sexiness. There are studies that show that women like bigger men rather than smaller ones. Even if they are overweight.


Let's not kid ourselves. Bodybuilders are often considered "overweight" by standard measures.

But even that doesn't really matter. What matters is that you find the partner who finds you sexy whether you are 160 and cut or 350 and just fit.


If I ever become 350, I'd want my partner to just shoot me.

And by fit I mean not debilitated by your weight. I have a good friend who is the quintessential Hollywood doctor. He is 45 and cut like a 30 year old. He is a runner and lifter. He could give any Hollywood actor a run for his money. And he is rich and single. He literally has his choice of women and they make that known to him every day. He loves heavy women. Always dates them. It is just his personal preference. He does not find the fashion model types sexy at all. I know women who are just beautiful who prefer bigger men.


It's rare. But some people get off on control and keep their partner as fat as possible (or date disabled people) so they can have a partner who is utterly dependent on them (and therefore, can't leave or cheat).

Then there is this issue. Selling out to the "snack industry" our mostly conservative politicians have stuffed our schools with unhealthy food. And they have cut breakfast programs for children. They have cut day-care programs where healthier food can be stipulated. And in the efforts to teach children STEM, left just about all of the school health programs aside while ignoring unhealthy food advertising aimed right at children.

So the read deal is that what we should do about fat people is to leave them to their doctors and their loved ones. IF and only IF their doctors believe there is a problem then steps can be taken to help the overweight people lose enough to solve the problem.


Their doctors do believe that there is a problem, but there's nothing they can really do except offer advice that usually just gets ignored.

Meanwhile I wish every fat person in the world, confronted by a judgmental busybody would fire back at them. "Your fat. Yea? Well you are ugly and I can lose weight."


How childish.

Well you are ugly and I can lose weight."


Good. Then do it.
#14746068
Just to emphasize the importance of keeping track of what you eat, I went from 245 pounds to 195 using a spreadsheet listing what I would eat and when and how many calories.
My computer died, but I decided not to rebuild my spreadsheet because I eat the same thing every day due to a salt free diet. I am back up to 220. Even though I thought my eating habits had not changed, they apparently had.
#14746124
QatzelOk wrote:Are you sure about that?

Negative feedback is often the best measure of the things you should improve.

I used to have very bad breath, and people's negative feedback (people judging me) lead me to check in with my dentist where I found out I needed minor dental work and to floss more thoroughly.

Imagine if, instead, I had acted all hurt and turned to my "bad breath community" for support.


I disagree. Constructive criticism, maybe, but I have anxiety and depression so I put myself down enough for my weight, thanks.
#14746125
One Degree wrote:This is the only good advice. The rest is a waste of time. Create a spreadsheet and keep track. It even helps curb some of the hunger pains if you know when your next scheduled meal is. I would also recommend, if possible, eating a small something every 2 hours instead of eating meals.


My usual routine is breakfast, small snack, lunch, small snack, dinner, piece of fruit.
#14746155
This post is me butting in randomly.

Play nice you two.

As for the thread, I quite like the app my fitness pal that has a huge database to help you count calories. It's what ive been using since I gained a bit of weight from the campaign.
#14746179
DrLee wrote:Fat people are not a "drain on the medical system". That is a myth. Nor do they necessarily consume more food than does a person of "normal" weight so they are not a "drain on the environment".

The drain on the environment thing is debatable, since there are other sources of food waste (but obese people certainly contribute to it, especially by overinflating demand and eating too much meat), but they are definitely a drain on the medical system.

Health Consequences

People who are obese, compared to those with a normal or healthy weight, are at increased risk for many serious diseases and health conditions, including the following:5,6,7

All-causes of death (mortality)
High blood pressure (Hypertension)
High LDL cholesterol, low HDL cholesterol, or high levels of triglycerides (Dyslipidemia)
Type 2 diabetes
Coronary heart disease
Stroke
Gallbladder disease
Osteoarthritis (a breakdown of cartilage and bone within a joint)
Sleep apnea and breathing problems
Some cancers (endometrial, breast, colon, kidney, gallbladder, and liver)
Low quality of life
Mental illness such as clinical depression, anxiety, and other mental disorders8,9
Body pain and difficulty with physical functioning10

For more information about these and other health problems associated with obesity, visit Health Effects of Obesity.

For more information about these and other health problems associated with overweight and obesity, visit Clinical Guidelines on the Identification, Evaluation, and Treatment of Overweight and Obesity in Adults[PDF 56KB].
Economic and Societal Consequences

Obesity and its associated health problems have a significant economic impact on the U.S. health care system.11 Medical costs associated with overweight and obesity may involve direct and indirect costs.12,13 Direct medical costs may include preventive, diagnostic, and treatment services related to obesity. Indirect costs relate to morbidity and mortality costs including productivity. Productivity measures include ‘absenteeism’ (costs due to employees being absent from work for obesity-related health reasons) and ‘presenteeism’ (decreased productivity of employees while at work) as well as premature mortality and disability. 14
National Estimated Costs of Obesity

The medical care costs of obesity in the United States are high. In 2008 dollars, these costs were estimated to be $147 billion.15

The annual nationwide productive costs of obesity obesity-related absenteeism range between $3.38 billion ($79 per obese individual) and $6.38 billion ($132 per obese individual)16.

In addition to these costs, data shows implications of obesity on recruitment by the armed forces. An assessment was performed of the percentage of the US military-age population that exceeds the US Army's current active duty enlistment standards for weight-for-height and percent body fat, using data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys. In 2007-2008, 5.7 million men and 16.5 million women who were eligible for military service exceeded the Army's enlistment standards for weight and body fat.17

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/adult/causes.html

But please tell me how the scientific community is just persecuting fat people, I love it when fat acceptance people do that. :excited:

We can't play this game. Your argument and that of most of the "fat bashers" is at its heart one of physical attractiveness. There is no need denying it. I am not buying the "I want my mom to be healthy" argument. Your assertion that making obese people feel bad will make them lose weight is not only clinically untrue, it is rude and boorish.

Nonsense. For one, I never said that I want them to feel bad, I said that I won't stop encouraging them to lose weight just because it makes some people feel bad. I won't say anything to people that I don't know, but I will not stop arguing that society should strive for a healthy weight.

Here is the thing that people do not consider. In order to be clinically obese, mister 160 pound 25 year old, all you have to do is gain one pound per year and by the time you are 50 you will likely be clinically obese. Not much sloth involved in gaining one pound per year. Or if you are the 4 year old who tends to put on weight easier than his/her peers, unless your parents are relentless in managing your diet you will likely be way overweight long before you are old enough to have a say. Then in your most impressionable years you can't get the date you want, other children taunt you and your self esteem takes a rolling broadside.

Except that's not what happens, people tend to gain all the weight at once because of binge eating, which is extremely unhealthy, and then lose it all again through fad dieting, which is even more unhealthy than the original binging. Sure this could happen, but nobody is considering 185 pounds clinically obese anyway unless you are bellow 5'7".

And yeah, being an overweight kid is going to give you low self-esteem. That can always be ameliorated by putting them in sports and regulating what they eat. Wow, what a crazy idea, making sure your kids eat healthy and don't overeat. So much damn work. :roll:

Then there is this. Sexiness. There are studies that show that women like bigger men rather than smaller ones. Even if they are overweight. But even that doesn't really matter. What matters is that you find the partner who finds you sexy whether you are 160 and cut or 350 and just fit. And by fit I mean not debilitated by your weight. I have a good friend who is the quintessential Hollywood doctor. He is 45 and cut like a 30 year old. He is a runner and lifter. He could give any Hollywood actor a run for his money. And he is rich and single. He literally has his choice of women and they make that known to him every day. He loves heavy women. Always dates them. It is just his personal preference. He does not find the fashion model types sexy at all. I know women who are just beautiful who prefer bigger men.

350 is fit now? We're really stretching the meaning of fit.

Convenient stories, by the way. I have some convenient stories about people not wanting to date unhealthy partners too, but I won't bore you with anecdotal evidence that has nothing to do with the issue at hand. You're the one that brought up sexiness. I'm talking about health and having healthy standards for society.

It makes so much sense, I guess I just want my mom to be sexy! :lol:

Then there is this issue. Selling out to the "snack industry" our mostly conservative politicians have stuffed our schools with unhealthy food. And they have cut breakfast programs for children. They have cut day-care programs where healthier food can be stipulated. And in the efforts to teach children STEM, left just about all of the school health programs aside while ignoring unhealthy food advertising aimed right at children.

We're in agreement, but no amount of regulating food of kids in the world is going to fix a toxic household that eats too much and doesn't control portion size. And I agree with Albert, another problem is the food deserts that we have created in the urban communities.

So the read deal is that what we should do about fat people is to leave them to their doctors and their loved ones. IF and only IF their doctors believe there is a problem then steps can be taken to help the overweight people lose enough to solve the problem.

If you're overweight, you don't have to wait for a doctor to tell you to lose weight. And anyway like a doctor telling someone to lose weight has ever been effective. Self-motivation is what will help you lose weight.

Meanwhile I wish every fat person in the world, confronted by a judgmental busybody would fire back at them. "Your fat. Yea? Well you are ugly and I can lose weight."

I'm not going to insult people that can't be defended by turning this around and making fun of fat people. All I know is that for a geezer you are acting very immature about this issue.
#14746186
This is a rather complex problem. For most of evolutionary history of humans and all other species food is a scarce resource. Life had 3 goals: Eat as much as you can, reproduce as much as you can, and try not to die. Only recently (and only in certain parts of the word) is that we have more food than we need and this has become a problem. But evolution has engraved in our genes/instincts that we should eat all we can (it has also engraved we should have as much sex as we can, that is the reason it is so pleasurable!) and this has become a problem.
Never in history has prohibition of something that we like have worked. Alcohol prohibition did not work, all those taboos on sex did not work , drug prohibition does not work and any kind of food prohibition wont work either (not to mention how unrealistic its that suggestion).
Education might have a minor role. But realistically it is a minor role. Nobody has more education about the dangers of smoking, alcohol and obesity than doctors and you can still find fat drinkers and alcoholic doctors out there and not too hard to do so.
Now the question is from the point of view of society healthcare and the price on taxpayers.... Well the approach we have taken in the past is to tax whatever is causing the problem (e.g. tobacco, alcohol, etc) in that way the consumers of of those health noxious products pay for their burden on society. Does it work? probably not as good as it should, but i do think is the best most reasonable approach we have right now.
#14746213
jaydedjen110 wrote:I disagree. Constructive criticism, maybe, but I have anxiety and depression so I put myself down enough for my weight, thanks.

"Putting yourself down" isn't the only cause of depression or anxiety.

Obesity can also cause psycho-social problems, and the same things that can help control obesity - exercise and good diet - can also cure anxiety and depression.

Sometimes victimhood is a way of being addicted to "beating yourself up" by convincing yourself that you can't help yourself or improve.

You can!
#14746236
XogGyux wrote:This is a rather complex problem. For most of evolutionary history of humans and all other species food is a scarce resource. Life had 3 goals: Eat as much as you can, reproduce as much as you can, and try not to die. Only recently (and only in certain parts of the word) is that we have more food than we need and this has become a problem. But evolution has engraved in our genes/instincts that we should eat all we can (it has also engraved we should have as much sex as we can, that is the reason it is so pleasurable!) and this has become a problem.
Never in history has prohibition of something that we like have worked. Alcohol prohibition did not work, all those taboos on sex did not work , drug prohibition does not work and any kind of food prohibition wont work either (not to mention how unrealistic its that suggestion).
Education might have a minor role. But realistically it is a minor role. Nobody has more education about the dangers of smoking, alcohol and obesity than doctors and you can still find fat drinkers and alcoholic doctors out there and not too hard to do so.
Now the question is from the point of view of society healthcare and the price on taxpayers.... Well the approach we have taken in the past is to tax whatever is causing the problem (e.g. tobacco, alcohol, etc) in that way the consumers of of those health noxious products pay for their burden on society. Does it work? probably not as good as it should, but i do think is the best most reasonable approach we have right now.


Should we also legalize child pornography and murder? Anti-prohibition arguments are rarely consistently applied.
#14746242
Saeko wrote:Should we also legalize child pornography and murder? Anti-prohibition arguments are rarely consistently applied.

So you see child pornography and murder of the same spectrum as fat/overeating?
Not to mention that in child pornography and murder there is a victim. Someone whose RIGHTs and safety you are violating.
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