[Tonic]

The vast majority of jewish victims of the Holocaust did go like lambs to the slaughter.

This is a Zionist phrase, a term translated from Biblical Hebrew. Arthur, where do you read it?

[Arthur2sheds_Jackson]

^ Tonic i quoted Warangel

[Bright]

Soldiers (not innocent students) killed at settler center

The Israeli electronic and print media on Saturday revealed that the bulk of the eight Israeli Yeshiva (Talmudic religious school) “students” killed or injured in an attack on the headquarters of the Jewish settlement movement in Jerusalem on Thursday were actually paramilitary soldiers.

Israeli spokespersons claimed immediately after the attack that the lone attacker, a Palestinian from East Jerusalem, targeted innocent religious students.

The Israeli media, which is subject to routine government censorship, normally avoids giving “detrimental details” about Palestinian resistance attacks, especially when Israelis get killed, ostensibly in order to reap maximum propaganda benefits by giving an initial impression that the victims were innocent civilians, not soldiers or settlers.

The Israeli media, especially those targeting foreign audiences, also ignored the fact that Merkaz Ha'rav, the ideological central nervous system of religious messianic Zionism, combines Talmudic studies with military training in its educational program. This is known in Hebrew as “Hesder Merkaz”

Even Yitzhak Rabin’s killer, Yigal Amir, is reportedly to have studied at the Merkaz Ha’rav.

Similarly, the bulk of the Zionist-influenced or Zionist-controlled American media, with the exception of a few examples, readily parroted Israeli propaganda, repeating the claim that innocent religious students were the target of the attack, an apparent retaliation for the wanton slaughter by the Israeli army of as many as 138 Palestinians, the vast bulk of them innocent civilians, including more than 13 toddlers and babies.

The Israeli human rights organization, B’tselem, and Amnesty International have pointed out that at least half of the Israeli carnage’s victims were innocent civilians or people who played no role in hostilities.

It has not been established which Palestinian (or non-Palestinian) organization did actually carry out the attack in West Jerusalem.

Some reports have suggested that a Hizbullah-linked group may have carried out the attack, probably to avenge the murder by suspected Mossad agents in Damascus last month of Hizbullah’s military official Imad Mughniya.

However, Hizbullah on Friday denied any involvement in the Jerusalem attack on the Jewish settler center.

Meanwhile, a prominent rabbi has once again called the Palestinians Amalekites, which the Bible says “must be destroyed” and “wiped out from the face of earth.”

Amalekites were members of an ancient nomadic people of ancient Palestine which the Bible says were descendants of Esau's grandson, Amalek.

The Rabbi, Ya’akov Shapira, who is also the current Director of Merkaz Ha’rav, suggested that all Palestinians would have to be exterminated.

“The murderers are the Amalekites of our day, coming to remind us that Amalekites have not disappeared, just changed their appearance,” the rabbi was quoted as saying.

One of the people killed in Thursday’s attack is Doron Maharata, ostensibly a former Indian immigrant to Israel who had converted to religious Zionism.

The Israeli newspaper, Ha’aretz, showed him in full military gear, which obviously belies Israeli media claims that the “victims were merely innocent Yeshiva students.”

According to Ha’aretz, Maharata at age 17 enrolled in the Merkaz Ha'rav as part of the “Hesder Merkaz” track, in which students perform nine months of army service.

Meanwhile, Israeli officials said they would seek to use bloody scenes from the attack as part of a public relations campaign to tarnish Hamas’s image abroad, especially in the West.

Hamas officials, however, scoffed at the Israeli “hasbara gimmicks,” calling it “sickening.”

“This will be like Nazi propaganda operatives displaying images from resistance attacks in central Europe in order to give the impression that the Nazis were poor, innocent victims, and the resistance was all-diabolical,” said one Hamas official from the Hebron region.

Since the beginning of 2008, the Israeli occupation army has killed and maimed thousands of Palestinians, mostly innocent people.

Israel claims, usually when addressing Europeans and North Americans, that its army doesn’t murder Palestinian civilians deliberately.

However, human rights organizations operating in the occupied territories contemptuously dismiss Israeli claims in this regard, arguing that in the final analysis killing knowingly is killing deliberately and that when the number of victims is so vast, as is the case in Gaza, even intent itself becomes irrelevant.

http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/en/defa ... KRl62IM%3D

[Tailz]

Oh how the worm has turned. The more I read about the background of this school and these civilians the more I think the whole situation is a circus of propaganda.

[Rodion]

Careful who you back, Tails. I'd wait for a better source than that.

[Tailz]

Rodion wrote:

Careful who you back, Tails. I'd wait for a better source than that.

Agreed, I take this snippet of information with a doze of salt (But the information about the school itself seems to follow the same details Haaretz had.). But still, it just added to the circus of propaganda (from both sides).

When I first heard about this shooting, I asked myself "Why this place?"

So far, the reason seems to be links to the settler movement. I deplor the attack itself, but looking deeper at all the issues, it seems to be Palestinian militants attacking that which attacks them.

Seems to be, on one hand we have militant Palestinians, on the other, militant settlers.

[War Angel]

"Why this place?"

Because of what it represents. Merkaz Harav is a yeshiva for many hardcore national religious, some settlers and some aren't.

I like them a lot more than the Haredim, but it's probably a good thing the terrorist chose this place. If this would've been a Haredi school, there wouldn't be anyone to take the assailant down, and he would've killed many more. Merkaz Harav students are partially ex-combat soldiers, some still serving, some served, but overall they're superbly trained, hard-as-nails people with access to assault weapons. I'm surprised he managed to kill so many as it were - probably because he caught the younger students by surprise, and it took some time until the older students got there and killed the terrorist.

it seems to be Palestinian militants attacking that which attacks them.

Then why didn't he attack a yeshiva in a settlement? Why didn't he attack a military target?

[Bright]

Since Israel is a militarist state that requires all young men and women to serve in the military, there are no civilians. There are only paramilitary, active military, and inactive military. Thus, all young people in Israel are fair game for the resistance.

I'd wait for a better source than that.

I would like an explanation as to how Palestinian media is inferior to the likes of "Haaretz" and "Jerusalem Post"

[Private]

Since Israel is a militarist state that requires all young men and women to serve in the military, there are no civilians. There are only paramilitary, active military, and inactive military. Thus, all young people in Israel are fair game for the resistance.

wow!

That is the quote of the century. Well said.

May i use that quote in my future debates with your permission?

[War Angel]

Since Israel is a militarist state that requires all young men and women to serve in the military, there are no civilians. There are only paramilitary, active military, and inactive military. Thus, all young people in Israel are fair game for the resistance.

Okay. Can I say the same about the Palestinian Arabs, then proceed to exterminate them all? That'd be a pretty sweet and swift end to this whole conflict.

That is the quote of the century.

And that was the over-statement of the century (which began only 8 years ago, but whatever).

I would like an explanation as to how Palestinian media is inferior to the likes of "Haaretz" and "Jerusalem Post"

Well, every Palestinian source I've come across has had some sort of agenda. They don't even TRY to stay objective. While Israeli sources are for the most part very objective and well regulated. For example, Haaretz would never print something like "The Arab Nazi pigs have once again slaughtered 5 innocent Israeli martyrs" or some other shite. That's hightly unprofessional, and any rational person would not take an article like that seriously. There's also an attempt to avoid buzz-words, like 'terrorist' or 'occupation' or 'apartheid', 'Islamo-fascists', etc. .

[Maas]

Israeli sources are for the most part very objective and well regulated.

Reuters got a slightly different opinion about it's pressfreedom though.
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715

[Private]

Okay. Can I say the same about the Palestinian Arabs, then proceed to exterminate them all?

War Angel, you are comparing a terrorist organisation (Hamas)with Israel (a democracy) as being the same.

[War Angel]

Reuters got a slightly different opinion about it's pressfreedom though.

We're #37 out 167. That's not too bad.

War Angel, you are comparing a terrorist organisation (Hamas)with Israel (a democracy) as being the same.

I'm not talking about Hamas - I'm talking about the Palestinians as a whole. They have free will, just like everyone else. If all Israelis are deemed soldiers, then all Palestinians (and indeed, all other people and nations, too) should be deemed such, and thus - exterminated, as threats should be. I'm just following your logic, here...

[Private]

I'm not talking about Hamas - I'm talking about the Palestinians as a whole.

Do you realize that you've just made an admission of targeting Palestinian civilians and NOT Hamas the terrorists?

People take note.

How can Palestinian civilians be compared to Israeli civilians. Gods-chosen vs Subhumans ?

According to your Rabbi, that is.

[War Angel]

Do you realize that you've just made an admission of targeting Palestinian civilians and NOT Hamas the terrorists?

Huh? First of all, I don't target anyone, not anymore. Second of all, I admitted to nothing, and the Israeli military does not, and probably will not, ever target civilians. I don't think all Palestinian Arabs are terrorists.

How can Palestinian civilians be compared to Israeli civilians. Gods-chosen vs Subhumans ?

WTF are you on, laddie?

According to your Rabbi, that is.

I do not have a rabbi, but I fully acknowledge the border-line anti-Semitic remark.

[Tailz]

War Angel wrote:

Because of what it represents. Merkaz Harav is a yeshiva for many hardcore national religious, some settlers and some aren't.

I like them a lot more than the Haredim, but it's probably a good thing the terrorist chose this place. If this would've been a Haredi school, there wouldn't be anyone to take the assailant down, and he would've killed many more. Merkaz Harav students are partially ex-combat soldiers, some still serving, some served, but overall they're superbly trained, hard-as-nails people with access to assault weapons. I'm surprised he managed to kill so many as it were - probably because he caught the younger students by surprise, and it took some time until the older students got there and killed the terrorist.

Ex-combat soldiers, generaly armed, at a school that teaches the religious values of settlers. Oyvay!

[Potemkin]

Ex-combat soldiers, generaly armed, at a school that teaches the religious values of settlers.

What has religion got to do with non-violence? Have you actually read the Old Testament?

[Tonic]

The dead were kids

Image from The Times



( Yannis Behrakis/Reuters)
The bullet-riddled glass door of the Yeshiva in Jerusalem

The library is seen where eight religious students were killed in a shooting attack by a Palestinian gunmen Thursday,at the Mercaz Harav Yeshiva in Jerusalem, Friday, March 7, 2008. The eight, most of them teenagers, were killed by a Palestinian gunmen in a nighttime attack on the library at the rabbinical seminary where they were studying.(AP Photo/Kevin Frayer)

[Maas]

Tonic: your text don't got any source, and adding those pictures aint proofing your point at all.

[Nets]

I actually agree with Maas here (intentionally bad grammar excluded).

Tonic, looking at those pasty faced, overweight yeshiva buchers makes me want to shoot someone. They live in the fucking middle east and they still manage to not get a tan, disgusting.

Seriously, these types will be the death of Israel, I guarantee it, not the Pal's. External threats can be dealt with, the internal religious cancer is harder to treat.

Israel should just go back to 1950s secular nature, cut these kids sidelocks (payot) off and force them into a real school.