Trump calls it like it is; the establishment can't take it - Page 540 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14767058
Zagadka wrote:Are you fucking serious? Just about every one of his policies is disaster to anyone slightly left-liberal. His immigration policies, environment-destroying, military spending, social service budget cutting, ACA-closing, anti-choice, anti-press bullshit... could pretty much go on forever. There may be, I'll grant... maybe 3 things I don't mind his position. I don't know what those are yet.

Trump just met with a bunch of labor union guys. Do you think that's something Bush would do? Even Clinton? Trump has very close ties to working class people. His immigration policy is simply to enforce the law as it exists, although he's waffled on repealing the dreamer regs. ACA is not something the working class likes. They have been screwed over by it. It's favored by people who get subsidies or people who had pre-existing conditions. For the most part, people don't like it. Hell, one of the big selling points of ACA was that it was a Republican idea that came out of the Heritage Foundation. That didn't sell to the Republican base or to Democrats who crossed over and voted for Trump.

SpecialOlypian wrote:Lol just joshin' you I made all of that up in an LSD induced haze.

Keep doing it then. It's one of the rare times we get a demonstration of appreciable intelligence from you.

Anyway, Trump's detractors still don't seem to get support for Trump isn't about "honesty" or whatever "trustworthy" polls they have. So the New York Times is using language that Trump will likely hit back at. This is an example of ridiculous media bias where the NYT kills its own credibility by trying to bash Trump's.

Trump Repeats Lie About Popular Vote in Meeting With Lawmakers
WASHINGTON — President Trump used his first official meeting with congressional leaders on Monday to falsely claim that millions of unauthorized immigrants had robbed him of a popular vote majority, a return to his obsession with the election’s results even as he seeks support for his legislative agenda.

The claim, which he has made before on Twitter, has been judged untrue by numerous fact-checkers.

The State of California provides driver's licenses to illegal immigrants and signs them up to vote too.

Mr. Cornyn said he thought such sessions would be more frequent while Mr. Trump is in office than they were during Mr. Obama’s tenure. Mr. Obama famously disliked socializing with members of Congress.

Referring to Democrats, Mr. Cornyn said, “They said they’d never been over to the White House for anything like this before.”

Representative Nancy Pelosi of California, the Democratic leader, said it was an “interesting” meeting. Along with health care and infrastructure, she said they discussed China and currency manipulation, as well as issues involving intellectual property rights, which she said were a point of agreement.

“We talked about the Affordable Care Act and said what the Affordable Care Act has been successful in doing is improving quality, expanding access and lowering costs,” she told reporters. “And any proposal that they might have that does that, we’d be interested in hearing about.”
...
The reception included, among others, House Speaker Paul D. Ryan of Wisconsin and Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the majority leader, as well as Ms. Pelosi and Senator Chuck Schumer of New York.
...

So what's their headline? "Trump is a liar." And they wonder why they're losing money... There is actually some interesting analysis between the different styles of Trump and Obama. Obama didn't make any friends. Reagan used to have lunch with Tip O'Neil. They liked each other. Washington hasn't been like that in a long time.
#14767060
blackjack21 wrote:Trump just met with a bunch of labor union guys. Do you think that's something Bush would do? Even Clinton?

Good for him. Being good on one subject doesn't excuse the roughly 6 billion that are bad.

The closest Trump has come to the working man is those 200 Polish undocumented workers he was sued about.
#14767061
The State of California provides driver's licenses to illegal immigrants and signs them up to vote too.


Assertion alone proves nothing except willingness to deceive. WHERE is the evidence for this? And why didn't the electoral officials in California nullify the results there?
#14767155
For people who doubt that a billionaire can be wise in other ways than business...

Trump has spoken to Jack Ma (Alibaba magnate) recently about America's dreadful employment glut (McJobs and no jobs) and he said:

Quoting Jack Ma, Counterpunch wrote:“In the past 30 years, companies like IBM, Cisco and Microsoft made tons of money.” The problem was how the US spent the wealth: “In the past 30 years, America has had 13 wars at a cost of US$14.2 trillion.”


So when Trump talks about tearing up "Free Trade" deals and changing America's relationship with other nations, it's just as legitimate as when Meryl Streep whimpers dramatically onstage at a Hollywood function.

Fourteen trillion dollars: your future has been used to kill bad guys who got in the way of oil companies and banks.

Will Trump help turn this obscene budget fiasco around? Or will he continue to put all of America's chips on "war?"
#14767198
A flashback from when people thought Hillary would win:


The DOW breaks 20,000 soon, the left likes TPP now because Trump canned it, Bernie can still win, crowd sizes matter again and the GOP is planning to impeach their own winning candidate.

I just summed up the past 20 pages or so of this thread :excited:
#14767201
Hong Wu, the DJIA is determined by the stock prices of 30 of the largest companies in AMERICA. I know your circle jerk echo chamber, r/The_Donald, is probably all excited about it, but the DJIA isn't a good measurement for the well being of the average Trump voter (who probably doesn't own any of those stocks anyway).
#14767203
Zagadka wrote:Good for him. Being good on one subject doesn't excuse the roughly 6 billion that are bad.

The closest Trump has come to the working man is those 200 Polish undocumented workers he was sued about.

Trump just met with construction worker union leaders yesterday, and signed an executive order to get the Keystone XL pipeline going, citing construction jobs that will be created. He also signed an executive order that would prefer American-made pipes citing steel jobs. He's making good on his promises.

Trump signs orders advancing Keystone, Dakota pipelines

redcarpet wrote:Assertion alone proves nothing except willingness to deceive. WHERE is the evidence for this? And why didn't the electoral officials in California nullify the results there?

They have deliberately set it up so that you don't need any identification to vote. Since illegal aliens can get driver's licenses, they can also fill out a voter registration. 12 states and the District of Columbia provide driver's licenses to illegal aliens.

Daily Presidential Tracking Poll
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows that 57% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Trump’s job performance. Forty-three percent (43%) disapprove.

That's a pretty big bump from a week ago. Trump is taking a lot of substantive action he said he would take.

Donald Trump tells Detroit auto CEOs that environmental regulations are ‘out of control’
“I come out with a lot of confidence that the president is very, very serious about making sure that the United States economy is going to be strong and have policies on tax, regulatory or trade to drive that,” Fields told reporters after Monday’s meeting. “That encourages all of us as CEOs as we make decisions going forward. It was a very, very positive meeting.”
#14767223
blackjack21 wrote:Anyway, Trump's detractors still don't seem to get support for Trump isn't about "honesty"
So what's their headline? "Trump is a liar."


Of all the aspects of Trumpism, this is by far the winner in sheer stupidity. Ultimately it is self-defeating. Basically you are conceding that nothing Trumps says carries any weight. Action is utterly disconnected from rhetoric. This is true of politics in general, but of course Trump radicalizes it into a governing principle.

This is precisely the reason US banks stopped lending to Trump. Even his contractual obligations turn out to be nothing more than vague promises. Trump is not communicating an actual intent to do anything whatsoever, he is merely serenading us. If you like the tune, fine.

Thus the union leaders meeting with Trump will realize they are part of a show. No actual results are to be expected.

Character is destiny. Trump is indeed a liar, in things both large and small. He cannot stop lying. Not to others, not even to himself.
#14767255
quetzalcoatl wrote:Trump is indeed a liar, in things both large and small. He cannot stop lying. Not to others, not even to himself


I have had experience with pathological liars in my lifetime. Initially I could not believe that a person could actually believe that black was white and that white was black. But, than, upon close observation, I realized that they truly believe their own lies. Now, the scary thing about trump, who is clearly a pathological liar, is that this man has the power to vaporize millions of humans. I can relate to BJ #21's hate of the establishment and his desire to put a wrecking ball to the entire structure but, where I leave him is when doing so involves jumping from the frying pan to the fire.

So, let's all be nice to trump for 4 years and pretend he is our INFALLABLE HERO so that he doesn't vaporize us :eek: .
#14767258
Trump tells lies and he is a politician? Disgraceful. I am glad I supported honest politicians like Nixon and Clinton. Then their is the problem of you not liking him because he is a liar and the establishment not liking him because he tells truths they don't want people to hear. Gets a little confusing.
#14767268
I have no objection to politicians lying to achieve tactical goals. This assessment is based on the assumption that said politician is a rational actor, and that his lies are consistent in support of a known agenda. I was actually a great admirer of Nixon - it was only near the end that he lost his grasp on the nature of reality. I am the last person to engage in petty moralism about lies.

There is a line, however, that is important never to cross.

Lying becomes a major problem when the lies are so numerous and contradictory that a politician literally loses the ability to signal his intentions to friends and enemies alike. Trump is the ultimate cypher in this respect - no one can say with any assurance what if anything he stands for (unlike Pence, for instance). In a true national or international emergency, this lack of predictability can be a fatal flaw.

Literally fatal, as jimjam is suggesting.
#14767272
quetzalcoatl wrote:I have no objection to politicians lying to achieve tactical goals. This assessment is based on the assumption that said politician is a rational actor, and that his lies are consistent in support of a known agenda. I was actually a great admirer of Nixon - it was only near the end that he lost his grasp on the nature of reality. I am the last person to engage in petty moralism about lies.

There is a line, however, that is important never to cross.

Lying becomes a major problem when the lies are so numerous and contradictory that a politician literally loses the ability to signal his intentions to friends and enemies alike. Trump is the ultimate cypher in this respect - no one can say with any assurance what if anything he stands for (unlike Pence, for instance). In a true national or international emergency, this lack of predictability can be a fatal flaw.

Literally fatal, as jimjam is suggesting.

Of course all presidents have lied. It is part of the job description. Saint Reagan and Saint F.D.R. lied but I do not get the sense that they did not know they lied and their lies were spaced out, not daily events. Nixon? I agree with you. He was really competent until the end when he seemed to burn out.

Poor America. She starts out with a president who could not tell a lie and currently has a president who cannot tell the truth.
#14767276
Actually, lying is the one thing that will set me off. I have never been able to tolerate it. As a fan of Scott Peck, I agree with him that lying is the road to insanity, because as you stated we start to believe the lies. I am still reluctant to believe Trump is engaging in what I consider actual lying. I see him trying to defend himself and making poor choices on how to do it, or whether he should do it. If I become convinced he is deliberately lying, then I will be a little frightened also.
#14767328
They have deliberately set it up so that you don't need any identification to vote.


That's false. You need a Social Security number to vote in California. Bringing up drivers licence & other things is just misleading, you know nothing about California voting law despite living in California.

According to Politifact.com this fake news emerged from a Tweet by a certain Mister Gregg Phillips.

According to his page on LinkedIn, Phillips is a former finance director of the Alabama Republican Party. He also served as executive director of the Mississippi Republican Party and was managing director of a super PAC that supported Newt Gingrich’s 2012 campaign for president.

Plenty of reason to be skeptical

While we have no idea how Phillips arrived at his claim that 3-million noncitizens voted, people who have made similar claims in the past have cited a 2014 report that claims 6.4 percent of non-citizens voted in 2008 and 2.2 percent of non-citizens voted in 2010 midterm congressional elections.

That report was based on data from a Harvard survey of people. But the data was flawed, which created flaws in the subsequent report.


The '3-million illegals voting' argument is FAKE NEWS that is to this day an unsubstantiated claim made by a Republican Party figure, which was lunged on by Infowars & Alex Jones.

A random Tweet by a political hack does not decide election results. Never mind nullify them. An electoral commission does that. Gregg Phillips is not a electoral official, sir, and neither are you.
#14767331
That report was based on data from a Harvard survey of people. But the data was flawed, which created flaws in the subsequent report.


Who decided a Harvard survey was flawed?
#14767334
One Degree wrote:Who decided a Harvard survey was flawed?


Here is the NYT article on the matter; https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/us/politics/unauthorized-immigrant-voting-trump-lie.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

There is a second study,
conducted in 2012 by the Pew Center on the States


The study did not find evidence that those errors led to voter fraud, however, simply that they presented avoidable costs and inefficiencies in the electoral process.

The primary author of the study, David Becker, made that plain in a Twitter post in November.


"We found millions of out of date registration records due to people moving or dying, but found no evidence that voter fraud resulted."

My emphasis in bold.
#14767340
Election and law enforcement officials all over the country, who monitored reports of voter fraud state by state, have said they found no credible evidence of widespread fraud.


As far as Becker and others saying the surveys were not evidence of fraud, they offered no evidence to support it. They simply said it, so it is worthless. They dismissed a Pew survey and a Harvard survey results without saying why. :?: No one was mentioned that should have even had access to voting records, as far as I can tell, so how did they reach their conclusions?
The part I quoted above has some credibility, but is so vague it diminishes its value. Which states? What do they mean by credible evidence? What evidence was there other than credible? What do they mean by widespread fraud?
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