[MistyTiger]

Agent? No. Co-conspirator of Putin's? Probably.



Just wait and see, Sweetie, how far he goes in pissing off the vast number of American intelligence agencies.

Oh yeah! I do not think we will have to wait long. The government does not have a high tolerance for pain and annoyance and neither does the general public.

[Hindsite]

jbander wrote:
Business as usual for Russia is getting information on someone and using it against them. With Trump the information that Russia could have, could be really creepy, Like making your skin crawl creepy, he is obviously that type of character.

Don't be silly. Trump is certainly no Russian agent. Putin has already admitted that he does not have anything on Trump and said even if he had met with Russian prostitutes, then he had good taste, because Russia has the best in the world.

Zagadka wrote:
I wouldn't call him an "agent". Just an idiot.

A professor on MSNBC cautioned against thinking of Trump as an idiot, because he says Trump is actually very intelligent and is using a strategy to minimize the liberal news media's attack against him. It has also been reported that Putin thinks Trump is a genius. Putin called Trump to congratulate him after his election win and again after his inauguration showing some respect for this President that seemed to be lacking with Obama.

I am very doubtful that we can trust Putin, but I am still hopeful that Trump can work out something with Putin that will be in both our people's best interests, because I believe the majority of the Russian people are good people.

[jbander]

Let me see, not one word of truth has come out of his mouth during his candidacy and the long extended time this country gave him as our president . It is time to start impeachment. I don't think your allowed to be president and be in the control of your countries biggest enemy. I do love the endless hate of Putin that has drooled from the mouths of the right up until we found out, the only reason This disaster is president is because of help from Russia. I think the other largest laugh is the right talking constitution and high fiving this disaster of a president who has no clue about, or does he care about that constitution. The Hypocrisy is at the highest level in the history of this country. To the right I have one comment ,Your hate machine created this , you own it completely. IMPEACH NOW!!!!!

[Suntzu]

Let me see, not one word of truth has come out of his mouth during his candidacy and the long extended time this country gave him as our president . It is time to start impeachment. I don't think your allowed to be president and be in the control of your countries biggest enemy. I do love the endless hate of Putin that has drooled from the mouths of the right up until we found out, the only reason This disaster is president is because of help from Russia. I think the other largest laugh is the right talking constitution and high fiving this disaster of a president who has no clue about, or does he care about that constitution. The Hypocrisy is at the highest level in the history of this country. To the right I have one comment ,Your hate machine created this , you own it completely. IMPEACH NOW!!!

I think he's doin' a great job. Two terms for Donald!

[jbander]

I think that the word impeachment sounds awfully good at this time. Why would a middle class person vote for a Republican, no one except the very top have had a increase in wages in 35 years, since trickle down and it will continue and destroy American capitalism and Small hands will wave his arms in triumph.. A small tip capitalism does not work without the incentive to get ahead. In those 35 years with not one dime of the massive increase in this countries wealth going to anyone except the top few percentage points, then add in the massive increase in personal debt in those 35 years and our country is getting poorer and poorer but with a gold plated top kingdom. Small hands will do only one thing, move more of the wealth faster to the top. He has no other job then that nor does the republican party. They are controlled and exist for the people who got all the wealth in this country.

[jbander]

as of yesterday, impeachment is supported by as many people who don't support it. Your absolutely welcome, your group will be known with the same indictment that Germany gets for supporting the Nazis. I could get you 100 videos of small hands lying probably 1000. The fact that you think what he says is true is the substance that was needed to elect a psychopath. Impeachment http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main ... trump.html. Are you going to argue that the right was against Putin until he started to hold hands with your master. Are you going to deny that Putin helped the Clinton loss. You have nowhere to go on this, other then making a stand against my charges and looking like a idiot but be brave go ahead and show me where I've failed. It's time to think about Impeachment. The next two after small hands , when they try to implement their hatred of the poor ,sick and old and the non stop transfer of all the wealth to the top.,will get the same. We can go right down the line watching your heroes do everything in their power to transfer every bit of wealth into the hands of the wealthy. We know who you are, small hands did us a favor and defined the right, by what they will do, finally. The hate party has been clearly defined by their master. small hands.

[Andrew Dolokhov]

The parliamentary system allows a non-confidence vote to get rid of an annoying prime minister. Unfortunately, the American system is more rigid, and it takes a more legalistic view of things. Perceived incompetence (manifest incompetence?) is not a very sound basis for impeachment. What is needed is evidence of "high crimes and misdemeanors" and, as annoying as Trump is, he hasn't done anything that, legally, can be used to impeach and throw him out of office.

What falls under the term "misdemeanors" can be broadly interpreted, but the American system definitely guards more against tyranny than incompetence or insanity.

[Hindsite]

Andrew Dolokhov wrote:
What falls under the term "misdemeanors" can be broadly interpreted, but the American system definitely guards more against tyranny than incompetence or insanity.

Even if "misdemeanors" was interpreted as incompetence or insanity, Trump certainly does not fit the definition, so impeachment is not a reasonable option at this time. However, Trump does seem to driving many liberals insane.

[quetzalcoatl]

Even if "misdemeanors" was interpreted as incompetence or insanity, Trump certainly does not fit the definition, so impeachment is not a reasonable option at this time. However, Trump does seem to driving many liberals insane.

The impeachment option is dead. Trump will last (at a minimum) four years. If he does go totally off the reservation, he will be removed via the 25th Amendment by his own vice-President. Either way, there is no percentage in it for the Democrats, and they will stay out of it.

[MB.]

This thread is fascinating because it exposes things about the internal political discourse in America that I hadn't imagined. It always amazes me that there is actual two-party support in the United States, so, the Democrats are an identifiable group that legitimately are loyal to some kind of perceived Democratic ideology (presumably neo-liberalism), whatever that is, and likewise that there really is a group of people so dense (or cynical) they actually believe in Republicanism as an ideology.

This is baffling, but thoroughly fascinating, when it results in little things slipping into PoFo discourse that otherwise I would not have noticed; for example, in jbander's desperate bid to impeach the president, we learn that Hillary supporters denounce Trump by calling him "small hands" in a fashion similar to the Republicans labeling Obama, "Obongo" or, amongst the Tea Party right, as I've heard it said, "BO"- you know, because his governance stinks.

Likewise, on this forum we have user Hindsite who is on some kind of laughable crusade to prove that Hillary tried to rig the election, literally a conspiracy theory advocated by crazy person Alex Jones.

I suppose it is quaint that Americans are so loyal to their obviously fraudulent political parties. I'm experiencing a kind of de tocqueville moment here.

[One Degree]

This thread is fascinating because it exposes things about the internal political discourse in America that I hadn't imagined. It always amazes me that there is actual two-party support in the United States, so, the Democrats are an identifiable group that legitimately are loyal to some kind of perceived Democratic ideology (presumably neo-liberalism), whatever that is, and likewise that there really is a group of people so dense (or cynical) they actually believe in Republicanism as an ideology.

This is baffling, but thoroughly fascinating, when it results in little things slipping into PoFo discourse that otherwise I would not have noticed; for example, in jbander's desperate bid to impeach the president, we learn that Hillary supporters denounce Trump by calling him "small hands" in a fashion similar to the Republicans labeling Obama, "Obongo" or, amongst the Tea Party right, as I've heard it said, "BO"- you know, because his governance stinks.

Likewise, on this forum we have user Hindsite who is on some kind of laughable crusade to prove that Hillary tried to rig the election, literally a conspiracy theory advocated by crazy person Alex Jones.

I suppose it is quaint that Americans are so loyal to their obviously fraudulent political parties. I'm experiencing a kind of de tocqueville moment here.

It is very weird. The established political parties are obviously the cause of many of our problems, yet people parrot their party lines after electing a supposedly anti establishment president. Trump should be seen as an opportunity to pursue specific goals, yet people ignore this to attack or defend Trump based upon party lines. We should be using him as the deciding factor in getting Congress to make common sense solutions people want. Trump has been unique in holding to campaign promises probably more than any previous president. We know where he stands and we should be picking and choosing when to support him and when to loudly protest him. This idea of 'everything Trump does is bad or good' is self defeating for both sides. Not to mention juvenile.

[Stormsmith]

Why are you surprised One Bullet?

During the Obama presidency, the response from the GOP was so bitter they refused to work for 8 Years, but they collected paycheques, and will collect pensions. You'd think the GOP voters, fiscal conservatives, would be calling for their heads, but precious few did.

During Bushes presidency the Democrats ranged from street protests to griping en masses for 7 years. In the 8th year, both parties were.

This is just business as U.S.ual.

[Sampson Simpson]

This is actually the pertinent question regarding all Trump's proposals. Nobody can really say because nobody knows what he will do. If Trump has an actual plan, he's not letting anyone know. At some point he gotta fess up.

I don't give a damn about the Democrats. They've earned what they got. They are guilty as hell in producing the conditions that led to a right wing reaction. They deliberately engaged in policies that hurt working Americans. This plan was pursued over decades and many administrations, and they own the result.

And it's still happening. Cory Booker - supposedly the great white hope of the Democrats - was among a number of Dems who shot down Sander's plan to allow Americans to import drugs from Canada. Because of "safety issues" doncha know. Right.

People are pretending to themselves and each other that solving this ACA boondoggle is some kind of intellectual puzzle. It's not. The only puzzle is keeping the insurance and pharma companies happy - if that's the prime goal, yeah, you're gonna be burning the midnight oil.

If your goal is to help uninsured people, then it's pretty damn simple. Extend Medicare to every citizen without health insurance. Basically, that's it. Is Medicare perfect? No, but it's a damn sight better than the maze of conflicting programs we have now. And it's infinitely better than the medical savings account sham.

So, you wanna drain the swamp? Start with two of the biggest swamps out there, the insurance and pharma swamps.

I don't get this stuff about democrats going against the working people. The republicans don't even try to hide their disdain for the worker. Trump, of all people, has done nothing in his life to say he cares about the average worker, a man who never had a hard days' work in his life and grew up with a silver spoon.

Republicans constantly fight against workers rights, ability for workers to unionize and fight for better wages and pay, against min wage. They call all those needing welfare (even when working) or assistance as lazy bums essentially. They are quick to cut any benefits and help to these people, to give the rich companies tax breaks which never pass down to the worker. THe problem is, those people are just too brainwashed by Fox to know they are voting against their best interests. They are so easily duped by the lies, the fear mongering, and distracted by "abortion! Illegal immigrants! Muslims going to kill you" and ignore the republicans robbing them blind

I mean seriously, Trump can say all he want, gas, oil and coal jobs are not coming back. Manufacturing is not coming back. We need to be the leaders of new industries to create the jobs. But we have blown that by being so in bed with oil companies and against science and green technologies. Now we can watch while china and other countries dominate green technology.

[One Degree]

Why are you surprised One Bullet?

During the Obama presidency, the response from the GOP was so bitter they refused to work for 8 Years, but they collected paycheques, and will collect pensions. You'd think the GOP voters, fiscal conservatives, would be calling for their heads, but precious few did.

During Bushes presidency the Democrats ranged from street protests to griping en masses for 7 years. In the 8th year, both parties were.

This is just business as U.S.ual.

I know. I am not really surprised, just disappointed. I have waited a long time to see a third party candidate become president and Trump is the closest I will ever see. Warts and all, he represents a possibility of real change that I prefer to encourage even if it ends up being misguided.

[quetzalcoatl]

I don't get this stuff about democrats going against the working people. The republicans don't even try to hide their disdain for the worker. Trump, of all people, has done nothing in his life to say he cares about the average worker, a man who never had a hard days' work in his life and grew up with a silver spoon.

Republicans constantly fight against workers rights, ability for workers to unionize and fight for better wages and pay, against min wage. They call all those needing welfare (even when working) or assistance as lazy bums essentially. They are quick to cut any benefits and help to these people, to give the rich companies tax breaks which never pass down to the worker. THe problem is, those people are just too brainwashed by Fox to know they are voting against their best interests. They are so easily duped by the lies, the fear mongering, and distracted by "abortion! Illegal immigrants! Muslims going to kill you" and ignore the republicans robbing them blind

I mean seriously, Trump can say all he want, gas, oil and coal jobs are not coming back. Manufacturing is not coming back. We need to be the leaders of new industries to create the jobs. But we have blown that by being so in bed with oil companies and against science and green technologies. Now we can watch while china and other countries dominate green technology.

So, not to pick on you particularly, but this is pretty typical of the Demo mainstream. And it's a pretty convincing demonstration of the fact that the Democrats are going to be in the wilderness for a long time.

The working class in many rust belt cities and rural areas are hurting bad. They have regressed in terms of lifespan, health, alcoholism, drug addiction, and disease. This all comes from one source: lack of jobs.

You have one party telling them "You are are racist and deserve what you get. Pound salt, cracker. And btw, vote for me." Great way to get votes.

You have the other party telling them ridiculous fairy tales about bringing back the jobs.

Who are they gonna vote for? Whoever is offering them a chance, however illusory. The GOP continues to win these battles, not because they are good. They are not. They win these battles due to the ongoing failure of the Democrats.

[Sampson Simpson]

So, not to pick on you particularly, but this is pretty typical of the Demo mainstream. And it's a pretty convincing demonstration of the fact that the Democrats are going to be in the wilderness for a long time.

The working class in many rust belt cities and rural areas are hurting bad. They have regressed in terms of lifespan, health, alcoholism, drug addiction, and disease. This all comes from one source: lack of jobs.

You have one party telling them "You are are racist and deserve what you get. Pound salt, cracker. And btw, vote for me." Great way to get votes.

You have the other party telling them ridiculous fairy tales about bringing back the jobs.

Who are they gonna vote for? Whoever is offering them a chance, however illusory. The GOP continues to win these battles, not because they are good. They are not. They win these battles due to the ongoing failure of the Democrats.

They are hurting because they don't change. They don't adapt. What do they expect? Oil and horrible dirty coal jobs were going to last forever? They need to go where the jobs are. people who don't adapt to the changing world will struggle. THis is why they are struggling. And what the hell does republicans offer? They thumb their nose at people making min wage that are unskilled. But many of the coal/manufacturing/oil jobs are unskilled as well.

The GOP are so full of shit. They just play into the hands of these people's fear and ignorance. They have nothing of substance. Name me one thing they did during Obama admin towards jobs? nothing. They rejected everything. All they did was pass abortion laws. They don't offer anything to these people. Education, nope, sorry, you're on your own. Better pay, nope sorry. More vacation? nope, sorry. Better healthcare for your black lung disease from working in the mines, nope, sorry, you are on your own. No, they offer tax breaks to companies that just pocket the money, giving them more power to exploit workers.

And I'm sorry, you are completely making up what democrats were saying. That's what happens when you don't listen and you get all your so called "facts' but through the right wing spin machine. What was Trump saying that was positive" OMG, this country is the worst, if you don't vote for me illegals and muslims will kill you" NO plans what so ever. He still has no plans.

He's not going to do shit for them, and many of th

I'm sorry, but I don't want the democrats to become scumbags like republicans and play down to dumb people. All we need to do is get more people to vote, and the current crop of republicans don't stand a chance. And that's not be dumbing shit down and being fear mongering, do nothing, my only concern is reelection, like the republicans currently are.

[Stormsmith]

I know. I am not really surprised, just disappointed. I have waited a long time to see a third party candidate become president and Trump is the closest I will ever see. Warts and all, he represents a possibility of real change that I prefer to encourage even if it ends up being misguided.

I an empathise with this, One. I can't tell you how many times I've gone to the polls, looked at the ballot with its 4 or 5 candidates and thought to myself, "Out of 30,31,...35,000,000 people this is the best we can Do? " .

The Harper years were particularly bleak.


Sampson Simpson

They are hurting because they don't change. They don't adapt. What do they expect? Oil and horrible dirty coal jobs were going to last forever? They need to go where the jobs are.

Perhaps they can't. In one pony towns, when the pony dies, the price of houses plummets to rock bottom, and there are no buyers. If they're a little older, they know moving is a poor option, that they cannot make up the loss, esp if they require retraining or educating.

[quetzalcoatl]

They are hurting because they don't change. They don't adapt

This is essentially the same finger-wagging you'd expect from Republicans, Clintoncrat version 2.0. "If you really wanted to, you'd pull yourself up by your bootstraps. I made it and upped my income, so up yours." Economic Darwinism applied to the working class, while the elite get a hand-up at every turn. The adapt or die narrative so beloved of the upwardly mobile is a two-edged sword, however. MIT is saying that nearly half of all jobs won't even exist in twenty years. What happens when you're 50 years old, and it's you hearing the whisper of the axe? Adapting won't seem quite so easy, I predict.

You used to laugh about
Everybody that was hanging out
Now you don't talk so loud
Now you don't seem so proud
About having to be scrounging your next meal

[Sampson Simpson]

I an empathise with this, One. I can't tell you how many times I've gone to the polls, looked at the ballot with its 4 or 5 candidates and thought to myself, "Out of 30,31,...35,000,000 people this is the best we can Do? " .

The Harper years were particularly bleak.


Sampson Simpson

Perhaps they can't. In one pony towns, when the pony dies, the price of houses plummets to rock bottom, and there are no buyers. If they're a little older, they know moving is a poor option, that they cannot make up the loss, esp if they require retraining or educating.

Yeah, I understand those issues, same thing inflicts inner city people or anybody struggling financially. But they are stupidly blaming democrats thanks to propaganda Fox when its republicans that are harming them. They have done absolutely nothing in 8 years of Obama but obstruct, even admit they were doing so. They talked about "jobs jobs jobs" but did nothing, even blocked veteran bills, infrastructure bills, and other jobs bills, because god forbid Obama gets credit for anything. they even admitted that was their goal. So why the heck do these people reward them?

And what are their plans for improved jobs? Open up the national parks to be destroyed? Remove all regulations so their waterways can be poisoned? Like whenever companies gets breaks to make more money, has it ever panned out to jobs and improved pay or benefits for workers? Rarely, hence what we are dealing with today, far too many barely making livable wages and the top getting all the money.

And they elect Trump, who said absolutely nothing. No details, no facts, lied so much, obviously showed he only cared about himself and his image. How stupid are these people to think he was their savior? And look how many Trump voters are having regrets. Oh, I had Obamacare, he's going to take that away? Yeah, what did he say? What did republicans say they would do?

dems are not to apologize for not targeting those people more (even though they should have). It was not galvanizing their supporters enough to vote. Republicans can't even own their horrible president without pointing fingers at dems

[One Degree]

@Sampson Simpson Have you been following the stock market? It is pretty obvious jobs will be created in the US because of Trump. Trump has stuck to his campaign promises closer than any other president. He is doing what he said he would do. I don't know what else you would expect. Whether you like his policies or not has no bearing on the job he is doing. His job is to do what he promised and he is doing that admirably so far.