Theresa May to make "big announcement" - Update Snap Elections - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Talk about what you've seen in the news today.

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#14799020
Clangeddin wrote:I may be wrong, but I'm under the impression that, deep down, Corbyn kind of wanted Brexit to happen as well, but he just couldn't openly admit it to avoid a shitstorm of epic proportions.
I don't know, call it a hunch, but the few times I've seen him on the issue, he just didn't seem interested / convinced enough.


It's pretty well known Corbyn wanted to leave the EU.
He wants to take all services and utilities back into public control and EU rules won't allow him to do that.

The fact that the turnout for remain was so poor may be another indicator that for the british left, staying in the EU was not such an important matter as it may have been portrayed...


The left cannot all be lumped together. There's people like me and there's the loonies.

People didn't bother to vote because they didn't think they needed to.
It was all very last minute.
Boris Johnson's rhetoric at that awful televised debate went a long way to convince the don't knows to vote to leave.
Of course, anyone with any sense knew exactly what he was up to.
#14799041
GandalfTheGrey wrote:This is what always amuses me about non-compulsory election countries - if only a tiny percentage of the remainers who couldn't be bothered voting at the referendum - actually went and voted, Brexit wouldn't have happened. Apparently the more pro-remain areas you had, the lower the turnout was. And like Brexit, I suspect this coming election will be characterised by a higher turnout of one side (torries and far right) than the other side.

If every eligible voter actually got off their arse and voted in this election, imagine what result you would get. I suspect you would get a far more left leaning (at least economically) government. I'm hoping the left have learned their lesson from Brexit, but I'm not holding my breath.


I think that really reflects the fact that only a fairly small minority of people actually believe in staying in the EU.

The biggest motive for voting Remain seemed to be avoiding economic disruption in the near term.

There are a few people with a principled belief in European political union and a group of indignants who believe the Leave vote was entirely about disliking foreigners or hankering for some bygone age. When you look at the support the Remain side had, from the government, the media, the unions, big business, the US President and other foreign leaders it really is a minor miracle that Leave won.

I suspect if voting was compulsory the result would have been a much stronger vote to leave.

However I'm glad we don't have compulsory voting. I think withholding consent and approval is an important signal which we should have the right to do.
#14799059
AJS wrote:
I think that really reflects the fact that only a fairly small minority of people actually believe in staying in the EU.

The biggest motive for voting Remain seemed to be avoiding economic disruption in the near term.

There are a few people with a principled belief in European political union and a group of indignants who believe the Leave vote was entirely about disliking foreigners or hankering for some bygone age. When you look at the support the Remain side had, from the government, the media, the unions, big business, the US President and other foreign leaders it really is a minor miracle that Leave won.

I suspect if voting was compulsory the result would have been a much stronger vote to leave.

Well said and I couldn't agree more.

If the one poll on the motivation for voting remain that I've seen is to be believed, fear of the economic consequences was a major factor or in other words, it wasn't primarily support for the EU that made people vote remain. I would therefore expect people to increasingly support Brexit, as they realise that Project Fear was mostly wrong and the economic consequences won't be as dire as predicted.

Having said that, many of those who cannot or will not accept the result seem to have a mental block with respect to the possible reasons in support of Brexit in that they are no longer able to imagine that for the rest of us economic reasons are not the only or even the most important determinant in decision making. This is a problem that goes beyond the EU debate and is increasingly relevant regarding so-called free trade agreements too. Hence in my view it's important to not solely argue on their terms but to shift the debate to the trade-offs of economic openness and harmonisation in terms of sovereignty, which is incidentally another area where the left-right divide breaks down.
#14799069
many of those who cannot or will not accept the result seem to have a mental block with respect to the possible reasons in support of Brexit in that they are no longer able to imagine that for the rest of us economic reasons are not the only or even the most important determinant in decision making.


Stating the bleeding obvious, there. There are no sound economic reasons to leave the EU.

The main reason, by far, for people voting to leave was to reduce immigration.

I suspect if voting was compulsory the result would have been a much stronger vote to leave.


That is extremely doubtful. I'm not sure where that comes from.

Project fear was absolutely right, by the way.
So far, so bad.
#14799102
snapdragon wrote:Stating the bleeding obvious, there. There are no sound economic reasons to leave the EU.

They aren't particularly important to me, but there actually are, especially in the long term. The EU is unlikely to be a future growth market and hence Britain may well be better off if it starts now to increasingly look elsewhere in terms of trade. Being outside the single market would help with this.

snapdragon wrote:The main reason, by far, for people voting to leave was to reduce immigration.

Which is a fundamental aspect of sovereignty. Retaining control over the decision how many and who is allowed into the country is absolutely essential.
#14799116
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:They aren't particularly important to me, but there actually are, especially in the long term. The EU is unlikely to be a future growth market and hence Britain may well be better off if it starts now to increasingly look elsewhere in terms of trade. Being outside the single market would help with this.


Britain already trades under WTO rules.
Leaving the EU doesn't change that, but leaving the single market is pretty disastrous.



Which is a fundamental aspect of sovereignty. Retaining control over the decision how many and who is allowed into the country is absolutely essential.


Oh, come on. Britain has always been a sovereign country.

There is always a trade off.

India has insisted that any future trade deal we make with them will have to mean Britain relaxes its immigration laws.

So much for sovereignty.
#14799203
snapdragon wrote:Stating the bleeding obvious, there. There are no sound economic reasons to leave the EU.

The main reason, by far, for people voting to leave was to reduce immigration.


Not according to the Ashcroft polls

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/ho ... d-and-why/

49% of both Tory and Labour voters cited “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK” as their primary reason.

By contrast both the first and second most common reasons for voting Remain were related to the economy.
#14799703
Theresa May might be in store for a nasty surprise from young people in the UK. Huge numbers of them are registering to vote. And if they actually cast their ballots, they could have a massive impact on the outcome of the general election.

In just three days, 103,439 18-24-year-olds registered. And a further 99,106 25-34-year-olds also signed up.
https://www.thecanary.co/2017/04/23/you ... eresa-may/

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