Kaiserschmarrn wrote:I'm not sure what's unclear. Reducing barriers between two markets - i.e. in this case the EU and Britain - will tend to increase the amount of trade between these two markets, and since the EU is not a future growth market the positive effects of this will quite likely decrease over time. Even over the last decade the UK has reoriented itself away from the EU and more towards the rest of the world, despite being extremely restricted in terms of its own trade policy by being a member of the custom union. What's more, the UK's trade balance with the rest of the world is relatively balanced while the UK has a large trade deficit with the EU.
Half our exports go to the EU and as the EU countries are on our doorstep, that is likely to continue.
Our trade with other countries hasn't been in any way restricted by being a member of the EU.
There have been various papers published showing this to be the case.
You can find them quite easily.
think you may be confusing foreign investment with trade, but please show us a source for this claim together with an estimate how much of British extra-EU trade is dependent on being a gateway to the EU.
Foreign investment is certainly of enormous value, but so is the trade of financial services.
By vengeful I mean the dictionary definition of the term, and if the EU becomes vengeful it should be opposed even more, as it would not only lose its legitimacy but would also act in contradiction to its own principles.
Which is probably why the EU won't become vengeful.
Not allowing Britain to cherry pick a deal and protecting the interests of the rest of the EU countries would not be "vengeful".
We'll have to wait and see whether it's going to be disastrous for the UK economy or not. Your side has already been completely wrong once, when all mainstream economic organisations, news outlets and your own treasury predicted that there would be an immediate economic downturn after the referendum in case of a Brexit vote.
Mainly due to the British consumer acting as if nothing had happened. Which was a very good thing, of course, but perhaps it would be better for you not to get into a "which side told the most lies" argument.
Also what do you mean by "your own" treasury? is it not yours, too?
Your paper is titled "Britain, the EU and the Sovereignty Myth" and in its summary it admits that Britain loses sovereignty as an EU member. Of course, as this is a pro-EU paper, it asserts that the sovereignty loss is not only inevitable and without alternative, but also in the UK's best interest. I'm somewhat concerned that people like you still believe that this kind of argument will make an impression. This is pretty much mainstream propaganda that we have been constantly bombarded with for decades
Of course it's a pro EU paper. They all are. Try to find a scholarly paper that isn't and also maintains the UK is no longer sovereign.
That paper states Britain chose to pool some sovereignty with other EU countries.
The EU is not a sovereign state, and no country of the EU has any sovereignty over Britain. No foreign states overrides Parliament.
As for lumping all the population together, I haven't. Please read my posts more carefully.
"The whole population", you claimed . It's far from it.
You basically said that you want the EU to save you from Tory governments, which means you are ok with people other than the British making decisions for you.
No, no no. It's the British parliament that enacts those laws.
The fact the Tories hate some of them is a bonus.
Of course, you will in all likelihood only support the erosion of sovereignty as long as you agree by and large with the decisions the EU makes for Britain. Perhaps you have never thought of the possibility or cannot imagine that this may change in the future. It's therefore hard for me to take your position on sovereignty seriously.
There is always a trade off that has to be made when it comes to negotiating deals with other countries. That is not an erosion of sovereignty, that is the way the world works these days.
I certainly don't take your idea of sovereignty seriously.
Pimping the Queen to Trump as a kind of sweetener is something I can easily give up.
“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.” -Socrates.