Paris shooting: Two French policemen killed on Champs-Élysé​e​s - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14798991
Godstud wrote:God made everything. You're cherry-picking.

Unless you follow grammar.

Lawfully, as in "the state". It says that clearly, but again, you're cherry-picking. :knife:

... yes, the state can interpret that liberally and apply the sentence too easily.

How am I cherry-picking using the quote you gave?
#14798996
Godstud sounds like a broken record: every time Muslims assassinate people, he shouts "America more bad! Drone attacks! Carpet bombings! More Muslims killed by Muslims than Christian and Jews! Many Muslims good! "
All politicians in Europe and the US agree that something should be done about Islamist extremism, ISIS, and terrorism. Immigration has to be reduced and extreme vetting put in place. Except Godstud apparently. His shouting sounds more like desperation than anything else.
#14798998
You sound like a person who doesn't like facts, and the truth. That's OK, Ter. Ignorance, and naivety, is bliss, right?

Politicians are only interested in themselves, and their own self interests. Pretending they give a shit about regular people, is rare, and laughable.

US politicians routinely have made decisions in foreign policy that turn around and bite the USA in the ass, but since lots of rich people make more money, it's acceptable.

Your shouts are of mindless hate.
#14799001
Godstud wrote:You sound like a person who doesn't like facts, and the truth.

Facts and truth can be presented in several ways.
You look at them only in one way, trying to exonerate the terrorrists or at least minimising their deeds by comparing them to other, related or non-related, facts.
You can always say yes but what the Germans did was worse, what the Japanese did was worse, the Americans and the West operating militarily in the Middle East, supporting Israel, droning terrorists, all of it is very much worse than those poor misguided boys shooting at a few police men or shoppers in Western Europe.
You do not even want to admit the very obvious... reduce Muslim immigration and practice extreme vetting.
#14799002
I neither exonerate terrorists, nor do I minimize what they do. You're being dishonest. I am against terrorism, whether it's done by a guy wearing a vest-bomb, or a guy driving a drone and blowing up a wedding. I can understand terorrism, but I never said I approved.

I am saying that blaming this on a religion(Islam) is a big problem and is caused by ignorance, and hatred.

The facts remain. US and Western foreign policy has created terrorism in the Middle East, that is aimed at the people who have caused the problems.

Muslims are more often the victims of this terrorism(see ISIL). Trying to blame the victims is just stupidity.

US vetting of immigrants was already probably the most intense, with immigrants/refugees already waiting sometimes more than 2 years to get approved.

Fact: No immigrant or refugee has committed a terrorist act in the USA. This is why the justification for Trump's Muslim ban was denied by the Supreme Court. Simply put: There is no justification.
#14799046
Godstud wrote:Islam is a totalitarian ideology, as much as it is a religion. That's the problem. You can't attack the ideology without attacking the religion(because the liberals make a huge fuss).

Islam IS a problem, Verv. You're just too much of a brainwashed liberal to recognize the threat it is to other religions, cultures, and people.


Godstud wrote:Islam is a totalitarian ideology that seeks to convert and subject everyone else to their cultural ideology/religion. That's simply a fact. To oppose something as inherently against what you believe in, makes perfect sense and is NOT islamophobia(phobias tend to be irrational fears, but such is hardly the case), but entirely rational, and logical.


So when did you convert, Godstud? 'Cause finding Allah is the most plausible explanation for your enthusiastic defense of that totalitarian ideology that exhorts its proponents to kill all outsiders.
#14799056
Godstud wrote:Fact: No immigrant or refugee has committed a terrorist act in the USA. This is why the justification for Trump's Muslim ban was denied by the Supreme Court. Simply put: There is no justification.

The Muslim psychiatrist who killed 29 unarmed soldiers in Fort Worth was the child of Palestinian immigrants.
The brothers who carried out the Boston marathon bombing were immigrants or children from immigrants from Chechnya.
And there are many more examples.
Many of the would be terrorists now in jail were trying to blow up bridges, train stations, synagoges and shopping markets but they were caught by the FBI.
The common denominator is that they are all Muslim.
I did not say that all Muslims are bad but all the terrorists are Muslim (don't bring up the lonely white supremacist please, that just obfuscates the obvious and naked truth that almost all terrorrist outrages are perpetrated by Muslims.
No (Western) society can accept that every other day someone starts shooting up people on the streets.
#14799058
See, thing is... take, say, Mexico. Mexican cartels are brutal monsters controlling everything and slaughtering anyone who so much as gets in the way. We do not, however, consider this "Catholic terrorism". Catholicism has nothing to do with it. Even though Islamic terrorists are not even a small minority and they distort hadiths or other teachings, they are operating from a religious pretext. We can not ignore that and not address why things are happening.
#14799061
Zagadka wrote:See, thing is... take, say, Mexico. Mexican cartels are brutal monsters controlling everything and slaughtering anyone who so much as gets in the way. We do not, however, consider this "Catholic terrorism". Catholicism has nothing to do with it. Even though Islamic terrorists are not even a small minority and they distort hadiths or other teachings, they are operating from a religious pretext. We can not ignore that and not address why things are happening.

This is not a valid comparison I think, since cartels don't act and don't claim to act based on catholic teachings. On the other hand we have no problem identifying the motivation of fundamentalist Christians as religious when they have bombed abortion clinics.

That incidents like this have nothing to do with Islam is nothing but irrational denial. Religion is not the only input, but it's definitely a factor.
#14799072
[the people] that God has made sacrosanct

It clearly refers to people that God has "made sacrosanct", not ", whom God has sacrosanct"

If the message is that unclear, you can clearly see how people have different interpretations just by grammar.

US does murder lawfully, as well. You have the death penalty. Stop acting holier then thou. It's stupid and offensive

I don't really agree with the death penalty. It is wrong here. But you seriously want to compare the number and nature of state executions in America and Saudi Arabia? And again, America does not do this out of a religious crusade - whether they correctly interpret Islam or not.

You just saying that Islam is no strong cultural motivation for Islamic extremists... talk about denial.
#14799077
Ter wrote:The Muslim psychiatrist who killed 29 unarmed soldiers in Fort Worth was the child of Palestinian immigrants.
The brothers who carried out the Boston marathon bombing were immigrants or children from immigrants from Chechnya.
And there are many more examples.
Many of the would be terrorists now in jail were trying to blow up bridges, train stations, synagoges and shopping markets but they were caught by the FBI.
The common denominator is that they are all Muslim.
I did not say that all Muslims are bad but all the terrorists are Muslim (don't bring up the lonely white supremacist please, that just obfuscates the obvious and naked truth that almost all terrorrist outrages are perpetrated by Muslims.
No (Western) society can accept that every other day someone starts shooting up people on the streets.


<<< Many of the would be terrorists now in jail were trying to blow up bridges, train stations, synagoges and shopping markets but they were caught by the FBI. >>>

Exactly!

Leftists never bring up the number of Islamist terrorist attacks that are thwarted. AND...I have to presume that many of these thwarted attacks are not even publicly reported by the FBI for security reasons and for reasons of further investigation to find more terrorist cells.

Leftists can twist the facts and spin their comparisons all day long. However we all know the truth of what is happening out there because it's obvious.

We as a society CANNOT risk innocent lives under the guise of good intentions of allowing Muslim refugees into our country. Doesn't matter what the ratio of innocent to guilty Muslims are. They cannot be properly vetted, it is basically impossible, and therefore we must keep all of them out. That's just the way it has to be.

We can show better humanitarian effort towards these Muslims by setting up safe zones in the Middle East, and all the recent refugees should be sent back. Keep them there where they belong, and where they can live a more happier life living among their fellow Muslims, and not irritating and harming our Judeo-Christian culture.
#14799085
The fun thing about Islam is that the crafters of the religion (Muhammad I guess or a later revisionist) found a way to militarise existential despair.

You can sort of reverse engineer the evolution of the social engineering. To get punters into the fold early religionists make the enticing offer of a second life after death. There is hardly a more common and more powerful handle on manipulating human psychology than the fear of death, because we all come genetically programmed with survival instincts. So this is powerful way to attract followers by promising them a solution to death. Later on they talk up how great this after-life is to get even more enthusiastic punters willing to buy tickets to heaven.

Now a problem emerges, real life is actually kind of tough and unpleasant most of the time, as the buddha would say existence is suffering, so true believers start suiciding since quite logically they choose to go to the fantastic after-life which was advertised to them as soon as possible over the nasty and difficult real life they are actually living in.

See for although humans have a survival instinct we also come with a deathwish. The deathwish is partly biological and you can see it in animals that have been caught by a predator, there comes a point when they are not yet dead but they have no further ability to free themselves and are too badly damaged to survive even if the predator vanished so they just give up. Life is suffering and death is the escape from life, so consequently there is a deathwish. The deathwish is weaker than the survival instinct generally but can become stronger when life gets particularly tough or hopeless. Hence why people commit suicide.

To stop the flock topping themselves en masse over the slightest difficulty the crafters of religion, by this time we are talking of Christianity, named suicide the worst sin, which if you do forfeits the prize of a fantastic after-life and instead you get the booby prize of eternal suffering in hell.

Now the Christian is fixed for now he must support his priest and his religion to get his afterlife as his prize but can't cheat by killing himself to claim his prize early.

Islam starts from here but has a further innovation. Islam's innovation was to allow a loophole in which those who want to die more than they want to live can get their afterlife early only if they do so by killing the enemies of the religion makers. In this way the existential despair is weaponised for the benefit of the Imams.
#14799088
One of the greatest flaws in human consciousness is its inability to rationally critique ones own beliefs without undermining ones identity and self-confidence. A sociologist would say that we almost naturally form groups and loyalties based thereof. To critique the larger group that one has either been born into or chosen, becomes almost treacherous and forbidden for oneself. Group pressure and approval become powerful weapons in its aim of uniformity in search for a common goal. The greater self-assurance and invulnerability one feels, the less one is reliant on something greater than oneself.

This is true in the West, it is true in every corner of the globe.

It is much easier to find flaws in what we hate than it is in what we love. Fear is what binds us; without it there is no meaning, too much of it and it becomes your greatest enemy, taking over every aspect of your life.

What I'm trying to get at is to defeat an enemy, either real or imaginary, one must first understand ones enemy. We are seeing a disproportionate number of Muslim youths being radicalized in Europe in comparison to other stated groups. The common denominator is low social status and alienation coupled with greater events happening in the wider world. Any critique from an outsider of said group is perceived as an attack on the very core tenets of the shared formed identity, strengthening it and making it more resolved, meaning any reformation of beliefs/behaviour/attitudes must come from within instead of an outside source to be effective.

Unlike many Leftist/Social-Liberals I recognize that this sentiment goes both ways and terror-attacks like this hardens the position of everyone involved.
#14799095
The organizers of these terrorist organizations aren't disenfranchised youth - those are just the cannon fodder. So there goes your theory that the alligator won't kill us if we just feed it more and more privileges. And then there's the question why Christian, Buddhist, or Atheist youths don't "radicalize" (aka actually read their ideological bible) and go on killing sprees.
#14799101
Ter wrote:The Muslim psychiatrist who killed 29 unarmed soldiers in Fort Worth was the child of Palestinian immigrants.
You only support what I said. :lol:

Second generation immigrants are evil now? I'm a second generation immigrant to Canada. You're talking out your ass now.

What you have there is a fucked up individual, and blaming it on the religion of immigrants just demonstrates profound ignorance. I thought you were smart than that, Ter.
#14799103
Godstud wrote:You only support what I said. :lol:

Second generation immigrants are evil now? I'm a second generation immigrant to Canada. You're talking out your ass now.

What you have there is a fucked up individual, and blaming it on the religion of immigrants just demonstrates profound ignorance. I thought you were smart than that, Ter.

Are you really so naive to think that one generation takes the radical Muslim out of people ?
Do you really think that the children of Palestinians in America are to be compared to children of, let's say, German or Danish immigrants ?
It seems to me that you are the naive fool in this matter, Godstud.
The huge majority of terrorists are either first or second or even third generation Immigrant Muslims or new converts. The poison spreads easily.
But go ahead and keep on saying that it has nothing to do with Islam. It will not do your credibility any good.
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