[skinster]

Our governments did nothing to prevent our private health care from ripping us off.

American politicians get $$$$$$$ from health insurance companies and big pharma so write laws that serve them instead of the people.

[Dave]

American politicians get $$$$$$$ from health insurance companies and big pharma so write laws that serve them instead of the people.

It's not just health insurers and pharma companies.

Other lobbies involved in ripping us off include the American Medical Association (physicians' lobby, acts to constrain supply of physicians and raise their wages) and hospital lobbies (standard monopoly capitalism b.s.).

[Potemkin]

It's not just health insurers and pharma companies.

Other lobbies involved in ripping us off include the American Medical Association (physicians' lobby, acts to constrain supply of physicians and raise their wages) and hospital lobbies (standard monopoly capitalism b.s.).

The capitalist system has always been plagued by rent-seeking, Dave, from its very inception. Too many special interests who regard politics as merely an instrument through which they can escape the iron law of supply-and-demand and can merely collect rents instead, simply for being so awesome 'n' shit. After all, when doctors or teachers say that they 'deserve' higher salaries, this is essentially what they mean: we're awesome 'n' shit, so give us free money! Lol.

[Buzz62]

It's not just health insurers and pharma companies.

Other lobbies involved in ripping us off include the American Medical Association (physicians' lobby, acts to constrain supply of physicians and raise their wages) and hospital lobbies (standard monopoly capitalism b.s.).

So what...elect a man who likes to tweet nonsense while taking a 5:30AM crap?
Don't get me wrong. I think the Dumbocrats got what they deserved this time round.
Lobbying the government is a good thing.
BUYING the government is a bad thing.
The American government was bought and paid for a long time ago.
If the Americans really wanted someone in power who had no use for this stupid situation, they'd find someone who wanted to have a political revolution.

But we all know that will never happen...

[One Degree]

@Buzz62
This is a revolution. Just no guns so far.

[Buzz62]

This is a revolution. Just no guns so far.

Revolution?
The same people are still buying the same politicians.
Thus the public has little to no say in the direction the USA takes.
Sounds like "same ol' same ol'" to me.

[Dave]

The capitalist system has always been plagued by rent-seeking, Dave, from its very inception. Too many special interests who regard politics as merely an instrument through which they can escape the iron law of supply-and-demand and can merely collect rents instead, simply for being so awesome 'n' shit. After all, when doctors or teachers say that they 'deserve' higher salaries, this is essentially what they mean: we're awesome 'n' shit, so give us free money! Lol.

This is hardly unique to the capitalist system. In any system interest groups will organize to lobby for their interests. The Soviet system for instance had the well documented phenomenon of "nomenklatura". Feudal systems had guilds, trade & commodity monopolies, and of course the many privileges given to the lords both secular and temporal. I'm sure that even in a primitive band of hunter-gatherers that some dude will argue he deserves the choicest meat because without his foresight to take a certain foot path the hunting band never would've found that wounded elephant.

Rent-seeking exists in the government sector as well in capitalist countries. Officers in the American armed forces don't drive, for instance. Even a freshly-minted 22 year old 2nd Lieutenant gets assigned a buck sergeant to drive him around. As a result many officers slowly lose the ability to drive.

So what...elect a man who likes to tweet nonsense while taking a 5:30AM crap?
Don't get me wrong. I think the Dumbocrats got what they deserved this time round.
Lobbying the government is a good thing.
BUYING the government is a bad thing.
The American government was bought and paid for a long time ago.
If the Americans really wanted someone in power who had no use for this stupid situation, they'd find someone who wanted to have a political revolution.

But we all know that will never happen...

@Buzz62,

I voted on immigration, trade, and foreign policy.

Healthcare is a hopeless tar baby and Trump made a mistake going anywhere near it. Glad we're done with that now.

[One Degree]

Revolution?
The same people are still buying the same politicians.
Thus the public has little to no say in the direction the USA takes.
Sounds like "same ol' same ol'" to me.

I am just indulging my imagination. For those who are convinced Trump is an idiot, you might recall who he has made the closest alliance with. The military.
The media and government are controlled by special interest that Trump will have a hard time beating, but he does have a 'trump' card if things turn too nasty.

[Buzz62]

I voted on immigration, trade, and foreign policy.

Healthcare is a hopeless tar baby and Trump made a mistake going anywhere near it. Glad we're done with that now.

I happen to agree with Donny's policy positions on immigration, trade, and foreign policy...for the most part. I might have served the Saudis notice that they are on thin ice, but hey...I'm funny that way. I don't like people blowin' up buildings in my backyard, then tuckin' their tails between their legs and running away like cowards...WITH the aid of Bush and Co...
Ya...that will always bother me allot.

You really think Healthcare is done?
Dude...wakey wakey...

Let's be perfectly frank here.
Obama and the Dems wanted a single-payer healthcare system much like ours here in Canuckland.
The REPUBLICANS dragged out an old friend, COMMUNISM, and ran about the country side howling like morons that government run healthcare was gonna strip them of all of their "freedoms" and that the government was simply trying to take over completely in some form of COMMUNISM.
Just about the DUMBEST thing I ever heard...or at least in the top 10...
So they shat directly on the healthcare system being crafted, so that it could never work.
In the end, that abomination they call the ACA, will die, the pharmaceutical and insurance businesses will be back in the drivers seat, and you'll all be right back where ya started...or likely worse off.


Really man...don't you Americans hear the rest of the world scratchin' our heads and chuckling at this folly?

[Dave]

@Buzz62,

Healthcare is done for this year's legislative agenda, that much is clear. Some small reforms might get passed (e.g. allowing associated health plans), but there will not be another big healthcare bill this year, and thank god for that. Congress can now move onto immigration and tax reform.

Obama began wavering on single-payer healthcare before he was even elected: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/2 ... 82662.html

Finally he specifically said the Canadian model would not work in America: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... rk-in-u-s/

The left of the party repeatedly promoted a "public option", but Wall Street Democrats shut them down.

I am aware that the Republican Party is if anything even worse on this, but as I noted earlier I don't vote on healthcare. Healthcare is for losers and I don't consume it.

[One Degree]

There is no solution for a health care system that demands more than the public can pay. Trying to figure out who should pay for it is senseless, when no one has the money.

Edit: Obviously, the only solution left is to nationalize health care but that will not happen in the US.

[Buzz62]

Unbelievable.
Healthcare is for losers?
Wow...

[Buzz62]

Obviously, the only solution left is to nationalize health care but that will not happen in the US.

And so the big question become "Why?"
What is so scary about nationalized healthcare?

[One Degree]

And so the big question become "Why?"
What is so scary about nationalized healthcare?

Our government has repeatedly demonstrated they are incapable of running anything effectively. State after state have hired private companies to run their lotteries, because they could not make them profitable. How pathetic is that? Government always spends too much on labor because each person hired is several votes the next election.

Edit: actually, I support Medicare for everyone because somehow they got it right.

[Beren]

Healthcare is a hopeless tar baby and Trump made a mistake going anywhere near it. Glad we're done with that now.

You're done with that now with the most political damage possible.

[Dave]

You're done with that now with the most political damage possible.

Incorrect.

The most political damage possible would've come from actually passing one of the terrible healthcare bills into law.

The Republicans would then have complete ownership of the healthcare issue and be forced to run for mid-term elections defending their own terrible healthcare law, and this law in particular would've raised insurance premiums for many voters.

Obviously it would be better to not have wasted any time at all with the healthcare tar baby, but thank God for the party's sake that it failed.

[Beren]

You're right @Dave, maybe it would be even worse if the Republican Party could actually govern.

Commentary: Republicans prove they have no clue how to govern

If they win the mid-term elections, then America is just hopeless, if Trump gets reelected, then the country is doomed.

[Dave]

You're right @Dave, maybe it would be even worse if the Republican Party could actually govern.

Commentary: Republicans prove they have no clue how to govern

If they win the mid-term elections, then America is just hopeless, if Trump gets reelected, then the country is doomed.

The Republican Party right now is basically the dog that caught the car. The party spent nearly a decade chasing the car, and then it caught the car and had no idea what to do.

Since 2009 the only thing the party has done is to obstruct Obama (often quite rightfully ofc). Senator Pat Toomey (R-PA) admitted that Congressional Republicans didn't think Trump was going to win, and therefore they didn't bother having any legislation at all ready.

You'd think that maybe at some point in time in the past eight years they could've written a few bills to enact as soon as a Republican President came into office again, but I guess that would be too much work?

Your last point is, of course, incorrect. If anybody but Trump gets elected, the country is doomed. Nearly all other politicians of national stature with Presidential ambitions are determined to destroy our country forever.

[Beren]

Your last point is, of course, incorrect. If anybody but Trump gets elected, the country is doomed. Nearly all other politicians of national stature with Presidential ambitions are determined to destroy our country forever.

My last point actually is that if the GOP wins the mid-term elections, then the political landscape is locked so much that it's unable to change even if it's shocked, and if Trump gets reelected, then the country is in such terrible mental and psychological condition that it may even be irreversible. Both of which would make you happy of course, although they both would be clear signs of decline.

[One Degree]

I don't see any 'if' in the midterms. The republicans currently have 6 times the money in the bank than the democrats. Wishful thinking is all the democrats have. On iPad so sorry about no source.