[Dave]

My last point actually is that if the GOP wins the mid-term elections, then the political landscape is locked so much that it's unable to change even if it's shocked, and if Trump gets reelected, then the country is in such terrible mental and psychological condition that it may even be irreversible. Both of which would make you happy of course, although they both would be clear signs of decline.

I'm not sure that you even have a point other than that you don't like Trump. What does, "then the country is in such terrible mental and psychological condition that it may even be irreversible," mean in practical terms?

The GOP is likely to lose seats in the mid-term elections for the banal reason that the incoming President's party nearly always loses seats in the subsequent mid-terms. The only exception I can recall is 2002, when Republicans picked up votes from stupid voters scared of terrorism and thus rewarded the President who failed to stop the worst terrorist attack in American history.

[Beren]

I'm not sure that you even have a point other than that you don't like Trump. What does, "then the country is in such terrible mental and psychological condition that it may even be irreversible," mean in practical terms? :?:

As a matter of fact Trump is more like a phenomenon than a person to me, as a person he's irrelevant of course. In practical terms it means that if Trump gets reelected, then America may be over the point of no return and collapse could be inevitable. It would be like Germany was under the Nazis, not that I want to compare Trump to them. At some stage Germany reached the point of no return too and collapse was inevitable. However, the U.S. is more like the Roman Empire I think, but the analogy with Germany is a lot more simple.

[Dave]

@Beren, @Beren,
The implementation of National Socialism in the United States, shorn of militaristic expansionism and dictatorship, would be a genuine improvement over the present system. So that cannot be called collapse.

It was the politicians for sixty years prior to Trump who pushed our nation to the edge of destruction.

I agree with the Roman Empire analogy however. Trump can be compared to a restorationist late-imperial figure such as Julian the Apostate or Flavius Aetius struggling to restore the Empire's past greatness.

Those men failed, and Trump may well fail as well.

It's possible that it's simply too late to save the United States of America and the country will not exist in its present form a half century from now.

[Decky]

No nation will exist in its present form 50 years from now Dave. When was the last time any modern nation had a period of total political stagnation that lasted for 50 years? Even in the Soviet Union things all went to shit the second Stalin ascended to heaven despite the best efforts of his loyal followers.

[Dave]

@Decky,

I can think of quite a few nations which will almost certainly exist 50 years from now, whatever political changes occur. I doubt very much that China, Japan, or India will disappear from the map.

The United States on the other hand appears to be approaching civil war and a crackup--which makes your USSR analogy apt.

[Decky]

I see. You seem to mean something very different by "exist in its present form" than a normal native speaker of English would mean by the same phrase; never mind.

As for your prediction I would love to see the US break up but I fear you are being premature, look at your civil war. The US government will massacre as many of its own people as it needs to massacre in order to prevent states or combinations of states exercising any kind of self determination let alone breaking off and forming new nations.

[Dave]

@Decky,

Yes well as you know we speak a strange and barbarous tongue on this side of the pond.

Our Civil War would've ended with Southern independence if Lord Palmerston hadn't been a pussy terrified of abolitionist losers. This would've been a great development for Britain for obvious reasons.

If the shit hits the fan we simply have no idea where the chips will fall.

[Decky]

The chips will fall as they usually do just more so. In the event of serious racial tensions the police and the Army will just shoot any black person they see on sight, god knows the US police force already seems to be champing at the bit for that sort of thing already today. Believe me there is no one who would more love to have the US Balkanised than me but I just can't see it at all and I am more prone to wishful thinking than most.

I do have my fingers crossed for the Mexicans bringing the US around to the one true faith and the Protestant heresy becoming a minority faith at some point in my lifetime though.

[Dave]

@Decky,

The real tensions are between white people. The blacks and Mexicans are simply pawns of the white "left". They have no real political or economic power and that is unlikely to change.

If Asian immigration continues at a high level they could perhaps become a major force on the West Coast independent of white politics, but they don't have sufficient numbers yet.

[Decky]

There is huge untapped political potential amongst the blacks, why do you think the CIA always assassinates the leaders promptly whenever they start getting something off the ground? The government does not pay those assassins for nothing. The panthers had the right idea, if the blacks started arming themselves and firing back at the police instead of it being mostly one way traffic the state would essentially loose the ability to operate anything other than heavily armoured military patrols in some American cities. Sadly the US government knows this as well as I do so it does as much as it can to disrupt back organising, there won't be a new Haitian revolution anytime soon.

[One Degree]

@Decky Blacks in America are not a bunch of freedom fighters waiting for their opportunity. They know the violence is basically due to young Blacks. The media and liberals can portray it as they like, but the people living in the communities know what the real problem is and that is gang violence, not police brutality.

[Decky]

Cheers one degree! Most violence is down to young men you say? Thanks for that stunning and unique observation, something that has been true amongst all groups of people for the entirety of human history is still true now? Wow.

[Dave]

There is huge untapped political potential amongst the blacks, why do you think the CIA always assassinates the leaders promptly whenever they start getting something off the ground? The government does not pay those assassins for nothing. The panthers had the right idea, if the blacks started arming themselves and firing back at the police instead of it being mostly one way traffic the state would essentially loose the ability to operate anything other than heavily armoured military patrols in some American cities. Sadly the US government knows this as well as I do so it does as much as it can to disrupt back organising, there won't be a new Haitian revolution anytime soon.

The Haitian Revolution was the only time the blacks successfully rose up against...anything. And look at how well that turned out for them.

Black political power is being successfully used by the Democratic Party.

What exactly would the blacks accomplish outside of the Democratic Party? Perhaps they could burn down a few more of their cities?

[One Degree]

Cheers one degree! Most violence is down to young men you say? Thanks for that stunning and unique observation, something that has been true amongst all groups of people for the entirety of human history is still true now? Wow.

I want to change my name to 'Mr. Platitude', but I just can't give up 'One Degree'.

[Decky]

The Haitian Revolution was the only time the blacks successfully rose up against...anything. And look at how well that turned out for them.

They killed a hell of a lot of Frenchmen, maybe one of you Lafayette lovers can't appreciate the beauty in that but most people can. Well most people who matter, people from the correct side of the channel.

What exactly would the blacks accomplish outside of the Democratic Party? Perhaps they could burn down a few more of their cities?

Ideally self determination and national independence. Give them a few of the southern states and see how they get on, it isn't as if they could make them that much worse.

[Dave]

They killed a hell of a lot of Frenchmen, maybe one of you Lafayette lovers can't appreciate the beauty in that but most people can. Well most people who matter, people from the correct side of the channel.

There was a brief bout of Francophobia in America during the run-up to the Iraq War. I remember a bizarre column by Charles Krauthammer praising the film Master and Commander (an excellent film) joyously extolling the virtues of "Anglo-Saxon cannonballs" destroying frogs.

I happen to think American Independence was a mistake so I share your view.

Ideally self determination and national independence. Give them a few of the southern states and see how they get on, it isn't as if they could make them that much worse.

The blacks themselves have demonstrated through their actions that they are not interested in this. In the 19th century many eminent Americans tried to induce the blacks to emigrate to Liberia (specially setup for them) and even paid for passage, provided farm implements, etc. There were few takers.

Haiti for a very long time offered immediate citizenship and land to blacks from America. It turns out that American blacks preferred living under Jim Crowe white supremacy to living in freedom among their fellow blacks. Many newly independent black countries in Africa like Ghana tried to induce black Americans to immigrate, but other than W.E.B. DuBois nobody bothered.

If an independent black republic were created in the Black Belt it would not be long before it underwent economic and social collapse...setting off a refugee crisis. We'd have to build another wall.

[Decky]

How does that make them any different from anyone else in the south? Do you really think the rednecks would be able to run a state that would function at a first world level? It would be like Poland but with less history and culture.

[Dave]

How does that make them any different from anyone else in the south? :?: Do you really think the rednecks would be able to run a state that would function at a first world level? It would be like Poland but with less history and culture.

Southerners are not as competent or industrious as Northerners but they make up for it by being a martial people.

Think of them as our Scots or something.

If you want to see the difference between them and their former property take a cursory look at the history of cities like Birmingham (Alabama not England) in the past half-century.

[One Degree]

How does that make them any different from anyone else in the south? :?: Do you really think the rednecks would be able to run a state that would function at a first world level? It would be like Poland but with less history and culture.

Surely, you know how ironic that is. Southern white culture is the remnants of British culture in the United States. Their speech is even the closest to British.

[Decky]

Stereotype fail. The Scots are more industrious and competent than the English are Dave, well the lowlanders anyway. The ones who are only good for violence and sheep rearing are the highlanders who comprise a tiny minority of the Scottish people.

Surely, you know how ironic that is. Southern white culture is the remnants of British culture in the United States. Their speech is even the closest to British.

That is nonsense OD, the British were the first people in the world to industrialise, the south is almost the opposite of us in everyway, they are more like Spain or Ukraine or some other barely European backwater.