Israelis nervous about BDS - Page 25 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14826559
The BDS among non Muslims (where it matters) failed. The Pixies canceled their gig in Israel in 2010, tomorrow they will perform in Tel Aviv. The Arab boycott started in 1945 (before Israel creation) under the Nazi influence. The BDS twist, appropriated cleverly the human rights and apartheid speak which fooled many SJW. In recent years, the Islamist concept of jihad against the infidel has filtered through to the public, despite obfuscation in the Western press.




http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.802496

BDS movement's celebrity-obsessed tactics won’t end the Israeli occupation

After 12 years, it’s time for the Israel boycotters to rethink their strategy of targeting rock stars about to perform in Israel. It’s not working and is distracting from the real story


By Asher Schechter

Published 15:01 21.07.17

With no alarms and no surprises, Radiohead performed in front of 40,000 fans in Tel Aviv on Wednesday night. Roger Waters and Ken Loach – who both called on the band to cancel its concert – did not charge the stage in a desperate, last-minute bid to stop it. R.E.M. singer Michael Stipe, who came out in support of Radiohead, was also absent.

Just a regular, run-of-the-mill rock concert. Apparently, they played “Creep.”

Red Hot Chili Peppers performing in Spain, July 2017. Did the cancellation of the... / Photo by JOSE JORDAN/AFP
As has become par for the course whenever an internationally renowned artist announces plans to perform in Israel, the most interesting thing about Radiohead’s show was the pandemonium that preceded it: Both sides of the anti-/pro-BDS debate trying to either convince the band to join the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement or score propaganda points off its back.

The pre-show hectoring of pop stars visiting Israel has become a tired old routine, as BDS activists – among them Waters and other influential cultural figures – put an enormous amount of effort into pressuring artists to support their cultural boycott. Among others, veterans of the Great BDS Music Wars include Elvis Costello (canceled in 2010); the Pixies (canceled in 2010, performed in 2014 and performing again next week); Australian singer Natalie Imbruglia (canceled in February); and also Alicia Keys, Lady Gaga, Bon Jovi and the Rolling Stones (all performed as planned).

At best, the results of this “Celebrity Deathmatch” strategy can be described as “mixed.” A more description would be that constantly pestering celebrities is futile and, frankly, a bit silly. And that this losing strategy is partly to blame for BDS being more hype than hope, with very few successes to its name.

Time for self-examination

This is not one of those anti-BDS smear pieces. Despite the efforts of propagandists to paint it as an anti-Semitic hate group (it isn’t), BDS is actually right about many things: Israel is running a brutal military occupation in the territories and a system of institutionalized racism within its borders. Not only is the word apartheid not out of place in this debate, it becomes more and more accurate with each passing day. Also, while many (including the author of this piece) would argue that the boycott approach is counterproductive and ultimately doomed to fail, it is clear that the chances of Israel changing course of its own volition anytime soon are slim to nonexistent.

Having said this, it’s time to admit: BDS has existed for exactly 12 years now, and in this time it has completely failed to advance its stated goal – bringing about an end to Israel’s occupation of Palestine through a combination of boycotts, divestments and sanctions. Economically, politically and academically, BDS has had zero effect so far. In those 12 years, the occupation has only become more entrenched, more suffocating, more inhumane. This is a fact.

This is not the BDS movement’s fault, of course. But after 12 years, some self-examination seems to be in order. Especially when it comes to the movement’s fixation with hounding aging rock stars and pop singers.

Ask yourselves: Had the campaign against Radiohead’s show in Tel Aviv worked and the band canceled, what would that have achieved? Possibly, this would have encouraged more artists to boycott Israel, increasing awareness of Israel’s crimes, leading to more people and universities and firms, and ultimately countries, joining the movement until pressure would hit critical mass – at which point Israel would have no choice but to evacuate all Palestinian lands.

Or, more likely, Radiohead would have canceled and Israelis would be bummed – but then they’d go see the Pixies in Caesarea next week instead.

The celebrity game BDS activists spend an enormous amount of energy playing can never be won. There will always be more celebrities willing to perform in Israel than celebrities willing to take a controversial political stand by boycotting it – especially since outside the narrow confines of this debate, the decision to perform in Israel or not perform in Israel bears no impact on their future careers.

Supporters of BDS keep insisting it’s all a matter of numbers – that if enough artists would enlist, then pressure would build, leading to that crucial tipping point. But to paraphrase Radiohead (and George Orwell before them), their 2+2 always seems to equal 5 in that regard.

Also, BDS activists insist that disrupting Israel’s “business as usual” attitude is crucial to ending the occupation. But they forget (or don’t know) that in Israel, canceled shows are business as usual. Artists have been canceling concerts in Israel for conflict-related reasons since at least the 1970s. So far, this has yielded zero political change – so why should it work now?

The cancellation of the Red Hot Chili Peppers’ concert in August 2001, at the height of the second intifada, harbingered a decade-long drought that saw very few international artists visit Israel. Did that prevent or slow down Israel’s descent into far-right nationalism?

Of course it didn’t. So why is the boycott movement spending so much time, effort and political cachet bullying the likes of Pharrell Williams or Natalie Imbruglia?

The world has changed

A cynic might say Waters is the movement’s most outspoken and well-known activist and that, being a rock star, Waters naturally believes rock stars still carry some political or economic significance. The ex-Pink Floyd man earned his fame at a time when this was partly true, so one can forgive him for thinking that. It’s just a pity no one bothered telling him the world had changed.

An even greater cynic would say that the BDS movement’s only real success so far has been the incessant media coverage of its actions, and that celebrity feuds are great for creating media buzz.

Some might argue, of course, that media buzz is important because it can raise awareness of the criminally underreported Palestinian plight. That is true. Nonetheless, it’s also worth asking ourselves the following question: Did the horrors of present-day Gaza receive more coverage thanks to the brouhaha over Radiohead’s Tel Aviv gig and the constant coverage of what Waters said about singer Thom Yorke? And what Yorke then said about Waters? And what Stipe had to say about them both? Or was it simply eclipsed by it?

Roger Waters
Roger Waters. Still believes rock stars carry some political or economic clout. / Photo by Victoria Will/AP
The truth is BDS should cease with its hounding of celebrities who choose to perform in Israel. Not because it’s unfair to Israelis who oppose the occupation. Not because artists need to bring people together or encourage dialogue, or whatever. Not even because, like so much of what the BDS movement does, it taps right into the far-right’s agenda of keeping Israelis isolated (that’s right, the purveyors of the Israeli occupation don’t really care if some leftie British band performs in Tel Aviv. In fact, they’d be just as happy if it didn’t).

BDS activists should stop playing the celebrity game because they’ve become too enamored with it. It’s become too distracting. If the Radiohead debacle proves anything, it’s that the celebrities have become the story instead of the chroniclers of it.

#14826578
skinster wrote:The Financial Times has published a big, and somewhat balanced, article on the rapid rise of BDS that includes two stunning financial numbers showing how powerful the nonviolent movement for justice in Israel/Palestine is becoming.

The most important information is deep inside the FT article:

However, there are signs that Israel’s disquiet over BDS is genuine. This week an Israeli financial newspaper covered a leaked government report estimating that BDS could cost Israel’s economy $1.4bn a year. The estimate included lower exports from the settlements in keeping with the EU’s plans to begin labelling goods made there — not part of the BDS movement, although many Israelis lump the two things together. The Rand Corporation, the US think-tank, says the costs could be more than three times higher: $47bn over 10 years.

http://mondoweiss.net/2015/06/could-israel-billion/


Israeli gdp is 339,990 billion USD as of 2017.

Let us take a calculator: (1.4/339,990) * 100% =0,41 % :roll: Israel must be trembling in fear of BDS. Growth rate is around 4 or 4.5 %.

On top of that, Israel gets how many billions of free aid from the US? :lol: From 30 to 50 billion every decade ?
#14826597
JohnRawls wrote:Israeli gdp is 339,990 billion USD as of 2017.

Let us take a calculator: (1.4/339,990) * 100% =0,41 % :roll: Israel must be trembling in fear of BDS. Growth rate is around 4 or 4.5 %.

On top of that, Israel gets how many billions of free aid from the US? :lol: From 30 to 50 billion every decade ?



An interview with the man who saved Europe from itself, Prime Minister Viktor Orbán"

You stated that Hungary has a lot to learn from Israel. Can you elaborate on that?

"The facts are obvious. Israel is a small country and has a per capita GDP that is three times bigger then ours. You do something [right] -- understand the figures, so you do something very well, which is quite unprecedented in the world economy. ... And Hungary belongs to European Union, but we would never give up our national identity. And Israel is strong on that.

http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newslet ... p?id=44027
Last edited by noir on 24 Jul 2017 18:05, edited 1 time in total.
#14826647
JohnRawls wrote:Israeli gdp is 339,990 billion USD as of 2017.

Let us take a calculator: (1.4/339,990) * 100% =0,41 % :roll: Israel must be trembling in fear of BDS. Growth rate is around 4 or 4.5 %.

On top of that, Israel gets how many billions of free aid from the US? :lol: From 30 to 50 billion every decade ?


zionists continue to vacillate between "BDS is useless!!!" to "BDS is a threat!"

Beyond it being amusing, it's also a little bizarre. I wonder who it is they're trying to convince...themselves? Me? :?:
#14826654
skinster wrote:zionists continue to vacillate between "BDS is useless!!!" to "BDS is a threat!"

Beyond it being amusing, it's also a little bizarre. I wonder who it is they're trying to convince...themselves? Me? :?:


Yes underestimate Jewish power to control the messaging... :lol:

Admin edit: Rule 2 Violation
Last edited by noemon on 24 Jul 2017 21:40, edited 1 time in total.
#14826684
skinster wrote:zionists continue to vacillate between "BDS is useless!!!" to "BDS is a threat!"

Beyond it being amusing, it's also a little bizarre. I wonder who it is they're trying to convince...themselves? Me? :?:


Don't know about the zionists etc but you have known my opinion on the subject for quite a while. A noble goal that you are trying to achieve by the wrong means which have no effect almost. :|

On top of that you are demanding the impossible or at the least something that Israel will never agree too. This is not a way to reach a solution.

Just to give you a perspective. I did a calculation in previous pages on how many people need to be relocated for Israel. That number is 30 times higher than the 1.4 billion or less than a percent that i showed you above.
#14826689
Zionist Nationalist wrote:Justice or injustice is a matter of opinion



They clearly see justice in the apartheid in the Arab states. They're 'neutral' on them.
#14826707
Hindsite wrote:There are many Christians that plan trips to Israel every year and say they have a wonderful time while they are there.


I'm sure there are, there are also Christians Palestinians who suffer the same oppression as other Palestinians.


And there are tons of Churches around the world who have endorsed the BDS movement.

JohnRawls wrote:Don't know about the zionists etc but you have known my opinion on the subject for quite a while. A noble goal that you are trying to achieve by the wrong means which have no effect almost. :|


Yes, your opinion equates to coming in here or other I/P threads where you usually say some dumb/ignorant shit, I correct you, and you disappear until the same happens again.

My point here is not to state BDS is winning or losing, but to share updates of endorsements of BDS.

If you think the movement is losing, that's up to you, but I wonder if you can explain things like why the Israeli govt has pushed and is pushing Western governments to criminalize activists involved in the movement, including recently declaring charging activists in the US with felony charges for supporting BDS?

Or things like this:
BDS is winning, admits top Israeli “sabotage” strategist

Or this?
Israel advances bill to conceal its overseas partners in suppressing BDS
#14826743
One Degree wrote:Why? I can think of no reason to do this other than hubris. Demanding everyone follows the same moral code simply means you have decided you are right and everyone must obey. Dictatorial is the word for people who support this idea. How is this different than demanding we all join the one real religion?

Yet pretty much most people can agree to a basic set of moral and ethical standards, such as general personal security (theft, personal safety, etc). Certainly there are grey areas, but the general principles usually get consensus. So no I don't think it is hubris or that it is folly to expect all peoples to come to a general consensus on how to treat each other.
#14826862
Tailz wrote:Yet pretty much most people can agree to a basic set of moral and ethical standards, such as general personal security (theft, personal safety, etc). Certainly there are grey areas, but the general principles usually get consensus. So no I don't think it is hubris or that it is folly to expect all peoples to come to a general consensus on how to treat each other.

When it becomes a requirement others must accept or suffer penalties, then it is a crusade. Basing your foreign policy on it makes you a fanatic. The West is not immune because they are the West.
#14826930
skinster wrote:I'm sure there are, there are also Christians Palestinians who suffer the same oppression as other Palestinians.


And there are tons of Churches around the world who have endorsed the BDS movement.



Yes, your opinion equates to coming in here or other I/P threads where you usually say some dumb/ignorant shit, I correct you, and you disappear until the same happens again.

My point here is not to state BDS is winning or losing, but to share updates of endorsements of BDS.

If you think the movement is losing, that's up to you, but I wonder if you can explain things like why the Israeli govt has pushed and is pushing Western governments to criminalize activists involved in the movement, including recently declaring charging activists in the US with felony charges for supporting BDS?

Or things like this:
BDS is winning, admits top Israeli “sabotage” strategist

Or this?
Israel advances bill to conceal its overseas partners in suppressing BDS


I disappear because arguing with you is like hitting a brick wall with my head. It is futile task in the first place but i still do it from time to time for no reason.

On the other hand, Israel does things to counter BDS obviously because you are trying to cause harm to Israel. (In their eyes) Even if you are almost irrelevant, it does not mean that Israel will simply stay still and do nothing.
#14826960
Zionist Nationalist wrote:if the Palestinians love Christians so much why do the Christians disappear from there?


Because Israel oppresses Christian Palestinians as well as Muslim and atheist Palestinians, duh. Do you think the Israeli give a shit about Christians in Palestine? :lol:

JohnRawls wrote:I disappear because arguing with you is like hitting a brick wall with my head. It is futile task in the first place but i still do it from time to time for no reason.


Then stop and we'll both be happy. It's not as if you're particularly interesting, beyond being wrong and in need of correction. I only interact with you because you direct your posts at me.

On the other hand, Israel does things to counter BDS obviously because you are trying to cause harm to Israel. (In their eyes) Even if you are almost irrelevant, it does not mean that Israel will simply stay still and do nothing.


So you've moved from BDS is useless because of something to do with Israel & $$$$$$$ to Israel does things to counter BDS because people who support BDS are trying to harm it, despite BDS being ineffective because of something to do with Israel & $$$$$$$

:lol:

Back on topic:
#14826967
Because Israel oppresses Christian Palestinians as well as Muslim and atheist Palestinians, duh. Do you think the Israeli give a shit about Christians in Palestine?


So Israel is also oppressing all of the Christians in the middle east?

because they also disappear

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