[Stormsmith]

I think Google has been trumped, which is not to say "improved"

What is the probability of transgendered wo/men requiring a liver transplant compared to the regular...or irregular population?

[Drlee]

Actually that is not the whole story. There are very considerable risks associated with long term steroid use. Liver cancer is just one of them. I posted many health issues common with gender reassignment. Here is a taste from the National Institutes of Health. (This is a long and involved study and too much to set the amateurs nitpicking here.)

Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.

So taking that alone (and it ignores medical issues for the most part) we are putting the government at risk. What is so difficult for everyone to understand it that the military assumes responsibility for everyone who joins and is subsequently ill or injured. If the military provides any treatment at all, they could be on the hook for a lifetime pension and medical care. Not just in retirees but in people who do not even complete a few months.

Now. We have the issues of someone transitioning while on active duty. Do we allow trans people in but then deny someone in the service the same "choice"? Now we have at least two years of intensive hormone therapy. A time when their body and minds undergo profound change. We face the very serious expense of surgery. And during the recovery time from the surgery the soldier can not participate in military duties. Someone else must take up the slack including deploying to combat areas in the trans person's place. Anyone here want to volunteer for that?

As I have repeatedly said, I do not have a dog in this fight except to point out that this is far more complicated than first meets the eye. If the military and taxpayers want to foot the bill then OK. Clearly there are a number of very successful trans military people out there.

[Finfinder]

They should also ban old people from the military. The health costs associated with old age are not the burden of the armed forces, and old people are not combat effective.

The left will say they don't identify as being old.

[Hindsite]

Both of you are ignoring the additional costs associated with older people. We cannot be burdened with these additional costs.

That is not the topic of this discussion. Stay on topic or shut up.

[Pants-of-dog]

The left will say they don't identify as being old.

Actually, the left will say that we have to reorganize the military along class and revolutionary lines in order to liberate the workers from the capitalist state.

In which case, we take all the old generals and shoot them.

----------------

That is not the topic of this discussion. Stay on topic or shut up.

Actually, it was the conservatives in the thread who brought up the topic of health.

Are you telling them to shut up?

[One Degree]

I think I saw figure of 15,000 transgender in the military earlier in the thread. I was reading some of the news stories and the figures said 1,000 to 6,000. No one seems to really know, so we don't know what the impact would be.

[Stormsmith]

Dr Lee

I take your point, and didn't miss your mentioning have had your own benefits rolled back. It's happened here, it's annoying as heck and it's counter productive.

But you're dealing with us outsiders with single payer systems. The pension doesn't apply, the rest does. So we know, by and large what's awaiting you if you throw your hats into our rings. All medical issues must be addressed. Americans won't be able to cherry pick. You can't deny coverage to smokers or overweight people. Abortion is in, as is birth control. And so on. Those of us who are single payer outsiders are used to thinking inclusively, but we also know the armed forces are a subset.

So, I would say you're going to have to ask yourselves if the sum value of transgendered exceeds the costs. If not, then exclusion from the forces and care by the state is justified, but if a transgenderee is offering an uncommon skill, would you be prepared to hire him/her as a contractor, whom, I presume, would be better paid, but I am clueless to their benefits basket?

[Zagadka]

I think I saw figure of 15,000 transgender in the military earlier in the thread. I was reading some of the news stories and the figures said 1,000 to 6,000. No one seems to really know, so we don't know what the impact would be.

Figures for that are hard to come by, since a very large portion of the trans community won't or can't come out, or even admit it themselves.

[One Degree]

Figures for that are hard to come by, since a very large portion of the trans community won't or can't come out, or even admit it themselves.

I am sure that is true. Both sides will make up numbers that best support their arguments. It just seems economic arguments are meaningless without this information.

[Stormsmith]

I would think that if they're applying for a surgical procedure while on active duty, you would be able to figure it out.

[Zagadka]

It isn't as simple as just having a surgery. There is generally around a decade of psychiatric care, years of hormone drugs, a period of essentially cross dressing, then several surgeries. It is a huge process.

[One Degree]

It isn't as simple as just having a surgery. There is generally around a decade of psychiatric care, years of hormone drugs, a period of essentially cross dressing, then several surgeries. It is a huge process.

So, if you are not wealthy, you join the military? What other choice would you have?

[Zagadka]

Well, most people getting GRS are not military age. I doubt there are many GRS procedures; I'd venture to imagine that a lot of those costs are psych and meds. Either way, we aren't talking about a lot of cashing in on government funds.

"A 2016 paper by the Rand Corporation titled “Assessing the Implications of Allowing Transgender Personnel to Serve Openly” estimated that about 2,450 transgender people are on active duty (out of 1.3 million active-duty service members altogether), and of that number, around 29 to 129 service members would seek care related to a gender transition in any given year. The total cost of their health care would increase overall expenditures on health care by between $2.4 million and $8.4 million annually, which amounts to a 0.04 to 0.13 percent increase in total active component health care expenditures. The true cost may even be lower; when the University of California system began to cover gender transition surgery in 2005, it only ended up covering 28 surgeries over a period of five years."

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... urden.html


EDIT

Yea, it is expensive. One reason that the suicide rate is so high.

[Stormsmith]

[quote="Zagadka"]It isn't as simple as just having a surgery. There is generally around a decade of psychiatric care, years of hormone drugs, a period of essentially cross dressing, then several surgeries. It is a huge process.[/quote]
I am aware of that, but step one is to guesstimate by number of cases, then look at the average of the sum of cost for cases.

[SpecialOlympian]

I don't care about the monetary costs. For me, this is about shaming and ridiculing transgendered people.

[Rich]

Actually, the left will say that we have to reorganize the military along class and revolutionary lines in order to liberate the workers from the capitalist state.

I already mentioned The Soviet union and homosexuality, but lets not forget Cuba and Castro or Mao's China where homosexuals faced imprisonment and even execution during the cultural revolution. What I'd like to see is a bit more gratitude from LGBT people for the incredible freedoms they have in western Liberal societies, so lacking in Communist and Muslim countries.

[colliric]

I don't care about the monetary costs.

All that needed to be said.

Don't you work in finance? Or was it real estate?

Transgender surgery is elective surgery. It should not be fully covered by public healthcare and shouldn't be covered by the Military either. Elective surgeries should not be covered, this includes plastic surgery(except that needed due to an accident or assault), some dental surgery(teeth transplants, etc), Abortion, Contraception, IVF and sex change related surgery or treatment. Only life saving or needed non-elective surgery(such plastic surgery related to another medical issue) should be covered.

Trump wouldn't have to do this if your discrimination laws weren't so stupidly lopsided to basically force public institutions to pay for elective treatments that the patients should pay for themselves.

[Hindsite]

Trump wouldn't have to do this if your discrimination laws weren't so stupidly lopsided to basically force public institutions to pay for elective treatments that the patients should pay for themselves.

The liberal Democrats like it that way, so as many people as possible want so-called free stuff from the government. That usually gets their vote and keeps the Dems in power. It did not work this time however, because the established Democrats wanted to make US history by electing the first woman as President. The problem was that she was a very flawed candidate and the corruption of the DNC was revealed by Wikileaks. After they lost they immediately blamed Russian hacking and collusion with the Trump campaign as the cause of their loss and not on their corruption or not having the best message.

[SpecialOlympian]

All that needed to be said.

Don't you work in finance? Or was it real estate?

Transgender surgery is elective surgery. It should not be fully covered by public healthcare and shouldn't be covered by the Military either. Elective surgeries should not be covered, this includes plastic surgery(except that needed due to an accident or assault), some dental surgery(teeth transplants, etc), Abortion, Contraception, IVF and sex change related surgery or treatment. Only life saving or needed non-elective surgery(such plastic surgery related to another medical issue) should be covered.

Trump wouldn't have to do this if your discrimination laws weren't so stupidly lopsided to basically force public institutions to pay for elective treatments that the patients should pay for themselves.

If you're looking to cut waste in the military then you could do much better. Which doesn't even matter, Trump doesn't plan to do shit about it anyway because he's a loud mouthed idiot. Even your conflation of military care with public care is more thought than Trump has given it, and your comparison was dumb as shit. Like, people don't sign multiple year contracts with their healthcare provider to be deployed overseas.

[Drlee]

After they lost they immediately blamed Russian hacking and collusion with the Trump campaign...

This is no longer a question. It is established fact. The president's son has admitted it. Do read a newspaper every now and then.