What US sanctions will do to Russia, Iran and North Korea - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14830720
@anasawad @Oxymandias

If Europeans are not Aryans then why is haplogroup R1a found at highest amounts in Poland but barely found in Iran?

R1a is found among most of Europe. I do not think it is correct to say that Central Europe is not Aryan. That is actually incorrect.
#14830722
@Political Interest

That's the European idea of "Aryan" which is a racial term. Aryan is actually the name of group of tribes that lay in Iran, Central Asia, Southern Russia, and Ukraine. All these tribes called themselves Aryan. Further proof of this can be found in historical documents of speeches made by Shapur I which talking about "Aryan identity" among other things. Note that the Parthian and Persian Empire are all extremely diversified. Therefore it can be stated that Shapur I, when talking about Aryan identity, was talking about a form of civic nationalism that existed before Shapur or the Parthian Empire and that started during the late Achaemenid Empire.


Proof of this can be found in it's meaning, which is derived from Arya, which means "noble". Hitler used Aryan because he thought of Germans as "noble" and called them Aryans. The term was obscure enough at the time to make it an effective political tool. More information can be found in the goddamn wikipedia article:

Drawing on misinterpreted references in the Rig Veda by Western scholars in the 19th century, the term "Aryan" was adopted as a racial category through the works of Arthur de Gobineau, whose ideology of race was based on an idea of blonde northern European "Aryans" who had migrated across the world and founded all major civilizations, before being degraded through racial mixing with local populations. Through the works of Houston Stewart Chamberlain, Gobineau's ideas later influenced the Nazi racial ideology which saw "Aryan peoples" as innately superior to other putative racial groups.[12] The atrocities committed in the name of this racial ideology have led academics to avoid the term "Aryan", which in consequence has in most cases been replaced by "Indo-Iranian" and is now only common in the context of the "Indo-Aryan languages".
#14830724
@Political Interest
The Aryan civilization is not in Europe. Its been called Arya since thousands of years, literally thousands of years. And its people are called Aryans.
The culture, philosophy, social order, etc are different from that of Europe and other civilizations.

Aryans are not a race or an ethnicity or any of those things. Its a group of nations.

For the genetics part. Actually Europeans do share a significant genetic resemblance to that of central Asia and north of Iran with the resemblance fading the more you go south. And if you looked at the maps, The spread of haplogroup R1a lines up with where the Parthians lived and established their nation after the migrated from eastern Europe. Parthians and Persians in general are the ones who called modern day Iran and Turkmenistan Arya, meaning land of the Aryans.
If you looked at the ethnic and cultural spread inside of Iran, you'd notice that this map also shows the Persians whom include Parthians are centered also exactly where the haplogroup R1a is present the most, while the further west you go to the areas that were conquered by the Persians and incorporated into the various Persian empires, the less this genetic group is present.

So, in summary. If we were to talk about the Aryan civilization and culture, Persians and central Asians are the ones who preserved it and formed it to a nation and a civilization. And called their nation that as well. While Europeans formed an entirely different civilization and culture, or more accurately, ditched theirs and followed the Greeks and thus became the western civilization.
If we were to talk about genetics and race, then yes, Persians and a good chunk of Europeans come from the same origin and race.

In regard to the Swastika, the Swastika is a proto-Zoroastrian symbol which is basically the ancient spiritual philosophy of the Aryan people in which we preserved and you ditched and replaced it. So in that sense, yes its our symbol not yours.


add: And the genetic mark doesn't exist in all of Europe, just some parts of it. While its spread in low concentration through Europe just like its spread in low concentration through central Asia and Indus valley. This is due to intermixing between people through the ages.
You're quoting this part
being most prevalent in Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Belarus, Russia and Ukraine in Europe and in central Asia, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India in Asia.

And it doesn't say its most prevalent in Poland specifically, but it says its most prevalent in those countries and regions including Poland . And it mentions Central Asia where Iran and Turkmenistan are, and where the Parthian or Persian people in general come from.

And as i stated, if you followed the appearance of the Swastika, you'd find that it first appeared in North of Iran and then started appearing further south. Which means its a symbol held by the group of Aryans who migrated to Iran and central Asia. And then it starts appearing in the Indus valley and northern India which means some parts of the group that migrated to central Asia, kept migrating further south.
#14830752
@anasawad

Btw, what would be your thoughts on a sort of "European Union" for Aryan and Semitic countries. I think there needs to be much more cooperation between Aryan and Semitic countries given how intertwined they are with each other both historically and culturally. My vision is for the Greater Middle East to become another Europe or Asia. A region that is on par with the West and Asia and may potentially exceed them. Right now, the Greater Middle East is full of vulnerable, bickering countries that continuously fight each other due to artificial borders created to cause bickering and vulnerability.

The least we can do is create an open forum where cultural dialogue and ideas can be spread freely without censors. A sort of Safa Khaneh on a much more larger scale that encourages unity, cultural dialogue, ideas, and understanding with each other. This is Safa Khaneh could lead to a Renaissance in Aryan-Semitic civilization and large amounts of economic and social growth!

So what are your thoughts? Do you agree or disagree?
#14830755
@MB.

The idea of Aryan being a racial category is drawn on references from Western scholars misinterpreted by Arthur de Gobineau, the creator of the fantasy that blond northern European "Aryans" migrated across the world and founded all major civilizations only to be "depurified" by the local populations. Obviously this is false and a fantasy.

The actual Aryans were just a bunch of tribes who simply called themselves Aryan because they called the place where they set up shop in a place they called Āryāvarta just like every single other historical human beings ever. That's pretty much it. It isn't even an ethnic group, anyone who just lives in the region they called Āryāvarta, is Aryan.
#14830765
Towards addressing that, I'll add that I think the real concern is the situation where DPRK is pushed to strike first. Standard US policy for forcing a regime to comply is to start leveraging the instruments of the US government one by one until the pressure is unbearable. Julian Assange described this nicely in an RT interview last year, see that here (ts, 13/14 minutes):



My concern is the situation where the sanctions are actaully really successful. It's been suggested that the sanctions will reduce DPRK exports from 3 to 2 billion dollars which is clearly no joke. Is it a critical amount however? According to recently updated CIA factbook figures, the DPRK GDP is probably about 28-30 billion dollars, so this would represent a hit of about 3 to 4% of total GDP. With DPRK economy listed as shrinking since 2015 at 1%, this would represent an acceleration of negative growth. However, the DPRK economy is highly autarkic, so they can probably sustain this for some time, if not indefinitely.

My worst case scenario is that the impact is actaully greater than expected, in which case DPRK's military leadership may recommend taking action while they still can which could have terrible consequences for the Korean peninsula.
#14831327
US President Donald Trump says North Korea "will be met with fire and fury" if it threatens the US.
His comments came after a Washington Post report, citing US intelligence officials, said Pyongyang had produced a nuclear warhead small enough to fit inside its missiles.
This would mean the North is developing nuclear weapons capable of striking the US at a much faster rate than expected.
The UN recently approved further economic sanctions against the country.
The Security Council unanimously agreed to ban North Korean exports and limit investments, prompting fury from North Korea and a vow to make the "US pay a price".
The heated rhetoric between the two leaders intensified after Pyongyang tested two intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) in July, claiming it now had the ability to hit the US.
Mr Trump told reporters on Tuesday: "North Korea best not make any more threats to the US. They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40869319

Will the US attack North Korea with an atomic bomb?
#14831335
No, there are no real scenarios that woul make us use an atomic weapon on NK unless they blew up San Fran or something. Even then a nuke would absolutely destroy our relationships in the region that we would like to maintain even after a conflict with NK.

I personally think the most likely thing to happen is China increasingly putting pressure on NK to back down since they aren't happy either. If I were in charge I'd probably hold back on any military options until the situation came to the point that China would also participate which would make it far less bloody and much quicker an operation. Beyond that there isn't really much need to do anything but set up stronger missle defense systems to try and stop any preemptive missiles.

Really the biggest threat is trump trying something stupid to prove his manhood or something like that.
#14831343


The best option is limited airstrikes against ICBM launch sites as nuclear test sites are buried deep underground. Since dozens of test sites need to be taken down in a short period of time, it would require hundreds of Tomahawk cruise missiles, and Trump was briefed on the plan.
#14831350
mikema63 wrote:The still image says I'm not watching that while in a good mood, lest my good mood evaporate. :eek:


It's just a cartoon version of what the US did to cities in Japan not that long ago, not the real footage.

The US - the only state to use nuclear weapons - is threatening the same on DPRK right now and NK is reacting with threats of nuclear strikes, since they remember what the US did to them not that long ago, too.
#14831351
Well, I'll let people interpret my posts on their own but I'll just state explicitly that I do not support any sort of nuclear strikes nor do I think the US does generally. Though I must admit Trump is unpredictable I do not think even he would do something so crazy.
#14831485
Today is the anniversary of the US nuclear attack on Nagasaki.
If Trump continues to blackmail North Korea tensions increase but there is fucking all that the US can do. It's all bluster and typical Trump hot air but North Korea might force his hand.

North Korea has said it is considering carrying out missile strikes on the US Pacific territory of Guam.
The report in state media, quoting an earlier military statement, came hours after President Donald Trump threatened North Korea with "fire and fury".

The North's official news agency said it was considering a plan to fire medium-to-long-range rockets at Guam, where US strategic bombers are based.
The exchanges mark a sharp rise in rhetoric between the two countries.
Analysis: Where do we go after 'fire and fury'?
'Caught in the cross fire' - What's the mood on Guam right now?
The UN recently approved further economic sanctions on North Korea, which Pyongyang said were a "violent violation of our sovereignty", warning the US would "pay a price".
President Trump threatened a response 'like the world has never seen'
'Met with fire and fury'
On Wednesday, the official KCNA news agency said North Korea was "carefully examining the operational plan for making an enveloping fire at the areas around Guam" using its domestically made medium-to-long-range Hwasong-12 missiles.
Will North Korea nuclear threat focus minds?

Can the US defend itself against North Korea?
North Korea: Possible ways forward for the outside world
The news agency reported a military statement issued on Tuesday, which probably came in response to US military drills in Guam.
In a message to the public, the governor of Guam Eddie Baza Calvo said there was currently "no threat" to the island and the Marianas archipelago, but that Guam was "prepared for any eventuality".
North Korea's statement is the latest stage in a heating up of rhetoric and tension.
Pyongyang, which has tested nuclear devices five times, launched two intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) in July, claiming it now had the ability to hit the mainland US.
North Korea's missile programme
On Tuesday, media reports in the US claimed the North had achieved its goal of making a nuclear warhead small enough to fit inside its missiles.
While not confirmed, this was seen as one of the last obstacles to North Korea being a fully nuclear armed state.
A report in the Washington Post, citing US intelligence officials, suggested North Korea is developing nuclear weapons capable of hitting the US at a much faster rate than expected.
A Japanese government defence white paper also said the weapons programme had "advanced considerably" and that North Korea possibly now had nuclear weapons.
In response, President Trump warned North Korea to stop threatening the US, saying they would be "met with fire and fury like the world has never seen".
However, veteran US Senator John McCain was sceptical about Mr Trump's statement, saying he was "not sure that President Trump is ready to act".
line break
'Scary' situation - BBC's Yogita Limaye in Seoul, South Korea
On the streets of Seoul, barely 50km (30 miles) from the border with North Korea, the latest developments have drawn mixed reactions. Kim Seong-su, 62, said he thought Pyongyang was bluffing to preserve its regime and justify its nuclear programme.
But others are more concerned. Yeon Eui-sook says she finds the situation scary. "I hope everyone can live in peace. Kim Jong-un keeps doing this and making us worry," she said
.
Analysts say the language from Pyongyang always gets more aggressive in August, when the US and South Korea conduct joint military exercises. But this time - with a US president who also uses strong words - the confrontation is getting even fiercer than usual.
line break
North Korea had reacted angrily after the fresh sanctions were announced on Saturday by the UN, in an attempt to pressure it into giving up its nuclear ambitions.
The sanctions aim to reduce North Korea's export revenues by a third.
KCNA said North Korea would retaliate and make "the US pay a price" for drafting the new measures.
It called the sanctions a "violent violation of our sovereignty", the news agency said.
China, which is Pyongyang's closest ally, has said it is "100%" committed to enforcing the latest round of sanctions.
Russia and China have previously differed with others on how to handle Pyongyang, but in recent months have joined calls for North Korea to stop its missile tests - while also urging the US and South Korea to halt military drills, and withdraw an anti-missile system from the South.
Meanwhile on Wednesday the UK Foreign Office said it would "continue to work with the US and our international partners to maintain pressure on North Korea".
"We have been consistently clear and forthright in our condemnation of North Korea's destabilising and illegal behaviour, including through support for UN Security Council resolutions to bring in sanctions that will limit North Korea's ability to pursue its nuclear weapons programme," a spokesman said.
The tiny but important island of Guam


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-40871416
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