State of emergency is declared in Charlottesville, USA. Why? - Page 5 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Vox wrote:David Duke, the former KKK grand wizard, is unambiguous about what Saturday’s alt-right and neo-Nazi rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, means to him: It’s the fulfillment of President Trump’s vision for America.

“We are determined to take our country back,” Duke said from the rally, calling it a “turning point.” “We are going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in. That’s why we voted for Donald Trump, because he said he’s going to take our country back.”

The Charlottesville rally is nominally about the removal of a statue of Confederate General Robert E. Lee rather than anything in the Trump administration. But Duke was an enthusiastic supporter of Trump as far back as the Republican primary in 2016, and Trump’s reluctance to disavow that support was, briefly, a big issue.

Duke has remained a faithful Trump supporter since then, insisting that the president-elect’s policies line up with the former KKK leader’s vision for America.

He was less happy with Trump’s vague tweet condemning the violence later Saturday afternoon.


The Hill wrote:CHARLOTTESVILLE — Clashes between “alt-right” white nationalists and counter-protesters turned this Virginia college town into a battlefield on Saturday, leaving one people dead and more than a dozen injured after a car plowed into a crowd of counter-protestors.

The fatal crash came a day after white supremacists already in town for the “Unite the Right” rally scheduled for Saturday marched through Charlottesville with torches, clashing with outnumbered left-wing activists.

The images of torch-lit white nationalists occupying the center of an American city went viral on social media, increasing the pressure on liberal activists to prevent Saturday's event.

Saturday saw many storefronts in Charlottesville shuttered ahead of expected fighting, which began hours before the noon start time for the planned right-wing rally.

The event brought various white nationalist groups together, and was meant to protest Charlottesville's removal of a statue of Confederate General Robert E. Lee.

The event never began, with a state of emergency declared and the white nationalists pushed out of the park before white nationalist leaders like Richard Spencer could even take the stage. Violent clashes between both sides ahead of the event left several bloodied.

After their rally was quashed, roughly 100 dejected white nationalists tried to regroup at a more distant park.

At that point, they were more interested in getting out of Charlottesville and performing makeshift medical care on their political allies than returning to the scene of the clashes. One man proposed retreating to nearby woods to avoid police or antifascist protesters.

“Our plan is to get out of here,” said one man who refused to give his name. “Everyone is scattered.”

Still, they fumed over their ejection.

One man in a white military helmet with a walker talkie, who declined to give his name, spoke about a need for “shooters” who could return to the center of Charlottesville and catalogued with his political allies the number of guns available to them.

Another man with a walkie-talkie put out a call asking for help from “all goys” in the area, a reference to non-Jews. Others heckled a reporter with anti-Semitic slurs, asking how many “shekels” the man would get.

Spencer, who rallied with a number of other white nationalist leaders, including ex-KKK Imperial Wizard and former Senate candidate David Duke, urged the crowd to disperse but complained that the police hadn't defended their event against the left-wing activists.

“They did not protect us,” Spencer said.

While the alt-right retreated, anarchists and left-wing counter-protesters were beginning to hype each other up.

“Antifa” counter-protesters enjoyed their victory, with some burning flags affiliated with white nationalist causes.

Rumors circulated that the white nationalists had intended to go into a primarily African-American neighborhood of Charlottesville to intimidate people.

One group of counter-protestors circled a group of 10-15 men and women who identified themselves as local militiamen and all wore camouflage clothing in a downtown parking lot.

As a few of the militia men, some carrying rifles and two wearing “make American great again” hats, got into a grey Lexus SUV, counter-protesters circled and shouted at them to renounce the KKK and get out of town.

As their SUV pulled out, counter protesters chased it down, throwing rocks, bottles, and a shoe, attempting to smash its windows.

Hundreds of counter-protestors marched down Water Street chanting “Whose streets? Our streets!”

As the crowd approached the corner of Water and Fourth Street, they were told that neighborhood residents did not want them to turn right to go further into the neighborhood.

“You guys, we spoke to community organizers,” one counter protester shouted. “We need to turn back. Walk up that street,” he shouted, gesturing to the wide alley to the crowd's left.

Those marching listened, and turned left to go in the opposite direction.

The mood also seemed to shift, as some at the front of the line danced and others spoke of having driven “the racists out of town.”

Suddenly, screams and a repeated thumping sound could be heard.

A grey Dodge Challenger was driving through the crowd at an accelerated speed, and bodies were banging against its windshield.

People began screaming loudly for medical attention as at least four people were on the ground.

The car paused for a moment, before reversing in full speed and running into more people.

Bodies were strewn up and down the block, with groups clustered around each one seeking to help. Pools of blood formed under some of the most grievously wounded.

Many people who said they had medical training tried to help the injured. People tied swatches of fabric and bandanas around wounds to try to stem the bleeding.

The white nationalist leaders were giving speeches to their disappointed supporters when video of the car driving into protesters across town began to go viral on social media.

Citing a supposed attack from left-wing protesters or a possible police arrival, the remaining white power supporters hurried to their cars.

But Spencer promised that the white nationalists aren't done with Charlottesville, singling out several local officials for criticism.

“We are never backing down, we are going to be back here,” Spencer said.

Hours later, people lingered at the site where the protesters were run over, trying to figure out what had happened and why.

“Them people getting run over is ridiculous. It should have never gotten that far,” said a man who identified himself as a Charlottesville resident. “That car should have been nowhere around there. Police is supposed to keep order. They should have blocked off the street and kept people 100 yards apart.”

“I can't understand how any of this happened,” one woman said ahead of a vigil planned for later Saturday night on the University of Virginia lawn.


Guys, who are the real Nazis? Real Nazis, or the people that oppose Nazis?

This needs to be followed up. Ideally with action that will further make the pearl-clutching Democrats and other right-leaning centrists irrelevant.
#14832556
For Media, Driving Into a Crowd of Protesters Is a ‘Clash’


Well, when one of the faithful plowed with a truck into kuffars visiting a Christmas market in Berlin, media called it a "traffic accident."

At least they're consistent. :)
#14832578
Supposedly he was driving fast weaving around counter protestors. Even that observation seems unlikely, as it is counter intuitive. If his intent was to hit them, then why was he weaving around them? :?:
#14832580
One Degree wrote:Supposedly he was driving fast weaving around counter protestors. Even that observation seems unlikely, as it is counter intuitive. If his intent was to hit them, then why was he weaving around them? :?:


Maybe he was confused about what he wanted to do so he thought he'd confuse everyone too?

I did not read all the responses but I'm sure a lot of it was just posting tweets and photos.
#14832583
Let's just keep in mind that there's no hard evidence available that the guy in the car was trying to hit anyone or that the very unfortunate helicopter crash was actually caused by someone at the rallies.

People are going crazy trying to blame each other even though its looking very possible that it was a couple of accidents.
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Decky wrote:More proof that the alt right is a terrorist movement, members of the alt right should imprisoned and have their citizenships revoked, alt right leaders should be in Guantanamo bay.

Guantanamo bay is not big enough to hold the alt right by any stretch of the imagination. As a practical matter, the United States would do itself serious financial harm by trying to incarcerate that many people.

Decky wrote:The alt right are just jihadists with paler skins, their methods are the same and their goals are the same.

That's a bit of a stretch. They aren't banning music, alcohol, scantily clad women, and so forth. So far, I haven't seen them beheading anyone.

Decky wrote:The alt right claim to love their country but they seem more interested in driving cars into crowds of their countrymen to take away their democratic right to protest than doing anything for their country, they are not patriots, they are traitors.

There is no democratic right to protest. There is a right to peaceably assemble. The alt right had secured a permit. The counter protest evidently did not, leading the government to declare it an unlawful assembly.

Decky wrote:Humanity beat the alt right in 1939-45, we can beat them again.

Most of the protesters have nothing to do with Nazism. Even people running around with swastikas and fancy themselves white supremacists have little in common with the NSDAP.

Pants-of-dog wrote:If you have a point, please make it.

His point is that Robert E. Lee was not a defender of the institution of slavery as such, and not particularly racist when compared to later progresives like Woodrow Wilson. Rather, Lee thought that the radical Republican's effort to use military force to stamp out slavery was wrongful.

Deutschmania wrote:No , the rally did not have a permit , and was subsequently declared an unlawful assembly

You are wrong. The "alt right" people are speaking of looked to get a permit and were denied by authorities. They then took their case to court and won. However, the Antifa people did not have a permit to protest and decided to physically intervene in the assembly.

Deutschmania wrote:I only regret that certain hard left political cults showed up , because I feel that they might tend to inadvertently serve to discredit the very cause of anti-fascism / anti-racism .

Well, they are very typically the ones instigating violence and engaging in rioting and unlawful assemblies. The difference is that white people aren't backing down anymore. So they are indeed making the "alt right" stronger as a political force. Nobody cares about shaming from the far left anymore. They've lost their moral authority, and don't seem to realize that.

Zionist Nationalist wrote:America is divided.

is civil war a possibility?

It is a possibility. However, the underlying problem is that the Democratic party abandoned working class white people, and have found themselves as a coastal party. Recently, the governor of West Virginia defected to the Republican party, which means the Republicans control the governorships of 34 out of 50 states. They have a similar advantage in state houses too. By contrast, the Democrats have similar advantages in states like New York, Illinois (due to Chicago) and California.

SpecialOlympian wrote:Lol this dude has already been identified and he works for University of Reno Nevada.

He could likely lose his job.

Did he actually kill anyone or commit a crime? I'm guessing no. James Damore was recently fired from Google and has become an international cult hero almost overnight.

SpecialOlympian wrote:Lol can't wait to see shitlords lose their job over this shit.

Oh boy was it ever worth to walk in fucking circles with a tiki torch while drssed up like a retail manager.

That's not going to put a stop to this. That is how you make people more radical. Right now, the violence comes mostly from the left. When the "alt right" actually starts getting violent, it will not be pretty.

SpecialOlympian wrote:*Gets fired from job for attending a nazi rally*

"Huh. Guess that's why the klansmen wore hoods."

Yeah, and that's why Antifa wear black hoods. It's not a good idea to clue them in to Antifa tactics. I'm guessing you won't be lolling as much if they do exactly that.

Lexington wrote:You either are a fascist like this asshole that killed someone, like the kind that my grandfather went and shot at, or you're doing a stupid joke on the internet.

We don't have much insight into the political views of the driver as yet, or his motivations. A lot of white people in the US have been randomly pulled out of their cars by black mobs and been beaten. So the political mood and the assumptions in the United States have changed considerably in the wake of Obama's second term and the decision to push BLM and a war on police officers. The decision to try to remove confederate symbols--which had nothing to do with Nazism, by the way--was also pushed by the Obama administration and the Democratic party. For whatever reason, it's still not widely popular in the South, where it is a matter of regional and cultural identity.

SpecialOlympian wrote:Why won't Trump say the words? Why won't he say, "Radical White Nationalist Terror?"

Is there some reaosn he won't say it??

Because, unlike Decky's analysis, Trump won white working class voters by wedging them against Democrats, BLM, the anti-male/pro-female campaign of Hillary Clinton. These aren't a bunch of programmers like James Damore. They are working class white folks for the most part. What Trump has done is peel them away from the Democratic party. For example, what we do know about the driver who ran into the crowd is that he was from Ohio--not part of the former confederacy.

skinster wrote:Exactly.

But they've always been here.

No. They have historically been Democrats. Robert E. Lee was a Democrat. Obama, in trying to shed that part of the Democratic party's history with the blessing of Northern Democrats, has spawned a loss of working class white voters in the South. Trump extended those losses in the North, largely due to the anti-male campaign of Hillary Clinton, her accusing them of being "deplorable" and many other harsh words even as they have little in common with Southern whites, and for her defence of both her husband and people like Anthony Weiner while trashing white working class men.

colliric wrote:Just as your side of politics also founded Antifa.

And fuck off, your political party says it's the same party "founded way back when", so the criticism it founded the group still sticks. The KKK and descendant Neo-Nazism were both associated with THE DEMOCRATS....

Yep. And Trump isn't particularly conservative by many people's standards.

colliric wrote:If anything he should say "Antifa Terror" and "KKK Terror"..... And then point out "Both founded by the Democratic Party.... Both subgroups of Democrat Terror".....

Well, they have badly botched their divide and conquer strategy. BLM was intended to keep whites and blacks at logger heads, but working class whites within the Democratic party. To me, the interesting demographic in this is that most of the "alt right" protesters appear to be male.

skinster wrote:Antifa didn't originate from the Dem Party, I don't think the KKK was either. TIG?

Antifa is more of a Marxist group. The KKK was definitely about working class white Democrats. They have similar roots in hooded violence however.

The Immortal Goon wrote:This all said, the Republican Party used to have a correspondence with Karl Marx, so it's pretty insincere and incredibly ignorant to pretend that Republicans today are anything like the ones that loved Karl Marx.

The Republican Party was the party of the cities.

This sort of ignores the point that Robert E. Lee was making. The Republicans were considered "radical" in the 1860s. That's why I always laugh when Drlee says that we wouldn't know Lincoln as a conservative. Lincoln wasn't conservative at all. Lincoln was not a Marxist, however. Marx liked Lincoln for his anti-slavery stance.

The Immortal Goon wrote:The South was a little different as they absolutely refused to legitimize the Marxist (and other leftist) aspect of the Republican Party.

The Republican party never embraced Marxism. It embraced Christianity--or enlisted it might be a better way of putting it--to put an end to slavery and the economic/political division within the United States. Lincoln was a railroad man.

The Immortal Goon wrote:Eventually, to put it shortly, the urban immigrant base of the Democrats represented by the Kennedys actually did succeed in expelling the Dixiecrats. The Republican Party was right there to cravenly pick up and promote any racist puked out by the Democratic Party.

They didn't promote racism. They fought against the welfare state, which is an anti-Marxist position. They picked up a lot of them by adopting the Christian evangelical ethos while the Democrats at the same time started embracing sexual liberation, abortion, etc.

The Immortal Goon wrote:TLDR: it's true that Southern racists used to be Democrats. It's also true that Karl Marx and the Republican Party used to love each other.

It's true that Marx liked Lincoln's anti-slavery stance. However, much of the Republican party was sourced from the failure of the Whig party, which had pro-slavery elements that ultimately killed Millard Fillmore's presidency. They also pulled from the anti-Masonic party. Lincoln's aim in dialogue with Marx was to leverage German-American influence in Europe in preventing recognition of the Confederacy. Remember, while Marx and Lincoln agreed on free labor, Marx was pro-union while Lincoln was a railroad attorney and loyal to their interests--the so-called Robber Barons.

Beren wrote:What a pathetic shit show, it's a shame people had to die because of that. David Duke is a complete idiot if he voted for Trump indeed, because Trump has nothing to do with his agenda. The Donald is neither a Nazi nor a Confederalist, and he's also not an anti-Semite. He's much more like a Yankee capitalist with a folkish rhetoric actually.

That is correct. However, that isn't going to stop the media from trying to characterize him as a fascist. The bottom line is that the establishment has lost the respect of a lot of white people who frankly do not care about the shaming and so forth of the political left or of the establishment.

Igor Antunov wrote:The media is taking up a predictable stance. Why should cops whom the Antifa murdered with assault rifles and who support Trump side with anything other than pro-American, Nationalist protesters? They're in no danger from them.

They are directed and paid for by the urban Democratic machine. So they generally do as they are told. That's why they didn't do anything to stop the DNC's instigation of violence at Trump rallies.

SpecialOlympian wrote:Saying the Democrats founded the KKK is as fucking stupid as saying, "Oh yeah, the Republicans ended slavery and to this day they are known for their love of black people and their constant efforts to champion them."

The KKK was the military arm of the Democrats. It was founded to oust Republicans from Southern legislatures and to prevent black Republicans from holding office essentially through terrorism. There are three distinct KKK movements. The first was definitely the Democrats. The second KKK movement was more urban and opposed Catholics and Jews. This is the version of the Klan that adopted cross burnings--largely to intimidate Jews. The third KKK movement arose after WWII in opposition to the Civil Rights movement. This was also definitively Southern Democrats. The second movement was opposed by a lot of Northern Democrats and Republicans who benefited from cheap Irish and Italian labor. The Republican party did push Civil Rights for blacks, but generally opposed the welfare state. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 is Everett Dirksen's legislation--a Republican.

ArtAllm wrote:Gorbachev admitted that the Soviet Union collapsed due to the growing nationalism, and this process was started by the silly attempts of the Communist Party to promote in the Soviet media race mixing and eradication of historical monuments, that were "sacred zones" for different ethnic groups.

What was the tactics of Commies in the stagnating Soviet Union?
They just called all nationalists "Nazis" and "Racists", they became more repressive, but this did not stop the process, this was like gasoline on a budding fire.

That's a pretty solid analysis. However, I think it also has to include class. It's the competition at the bottom of society where the animosity is most intense. I work with people of all races all over the world. However, they are all the high-wage earners of their respective societies, and seem to float above the conflict in the lower classes.

SpecialOlympian wrote:Just fucking lol if the Unite the Right march ends up getting them branded as cop kiling domestic terrorists.

Is there anything you don't find funny?

The Immortal Goon wrote:Guys, who are the real Nazis? Real Nazis, or the people that oppose Nazis?

Real Nazis pretty much ended after WWII. They instigated violence. In the US, the Nazis are the ones who usually have violence instigated against their public demonstrations.
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One Degree wrote:So, you show the final 5 seconds and ignore the eyewitness accounts? Denial?

It looks deliberate to me. Using a car this way as a weapon is not unheard of, muslims have been using it a lot in europe recently and we even had a case in the UK where it was used against muslims by what we might call an anti-islamist. I think you might be the one in denial, sorry.

Antifa have been pretty violent so it is pretty much inevitable that there is going to be an equally violent push back at some point by what we might call an anti-antifa. Then you are in a situation where a cycle of retaliation develops which potentially could escalate out of control.

Warning! Interesting times ahead!
#14832604
I am not dismissing it as a possibility, it is just that witnesses say he was weaving around people and he ended up hitting another car. He did not directly hit anyone as far as I know. There is apparently no footage of him weaving around others. It is a false observation, or it is true but lacks footage, or the videos have not been shown.
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