[Dr House]

Pillaging, Murdering and Raping doesn't seem to me to be something to be proud of.

In which case practically every culture on the face of the Earth has a depressing ancestry.

[Oxymoron]

Pillaging, Murdering and Raping doesn't seem to me to be something to be proud of.

Give me a freaking break with this peacenick crap, vikings provided trade routes between Peoples that were all but dead following the decline of the Roman empire. They had a large hand in bringing about the re-emergence of Europe, and the Vikings were not any more voilent then any other group in that era.

[millie_(A)TCK]

In which case practically every culture on the face of the Earth has a depressing ancestry.

Probably, but being proud of that exact aspect of your culture isn't right, now if he had highlighted the more positive aspects of his Swedish heritage that would be a different story but he specifically mentioned the Vikings and pillaging, murdering and raping were what they're were known for. Thats not cool nor badass, it's savage, barbaric and wrong behavior.

[millie_(A)TCK]

vikings provided trade routes between Peoples that were all but dead following the decline of the Roman empire

So, every peoples that sought to conquer all they could created new communication routes but they were soaked in blood, now if just fair trade was what they sought, that would be alright and admirable, but conquerers don't and aren't thus admirable.

[Dr House]

fair trade

Sorry, I just find that word hilarious.

[millie_(A)TCK]

Sorry, I just find that word hilarious.

Hey if you're going to go to the troubles of showing your laughter at the term you might as well explain why?

[Rodion]

Other: confused.

I'm not traditional, or even ethnic looking enough to qualify as a Jew. I'm not square enough to qualify as a German. I'm not cubic enough to qualify as a Russian.

And even if I could trace my genetic origin, I still wouldn't know how to feel about it.

[Nets]

Pillaging, Murdering and Raping doesn't seem to me to be something to be proud of.

Lighten up, Millie. He was clearly joking. Anyways, look at how docile Scandinavians are now; they just had to get it out of their system. Better then than now.

[Oxymoron]

He was clearly joking.

What makes you say that? I would be proud of a Viking heritage.

[millie_(A)TCK]

What makes you say that? I would be proud of a Viking heritage.

[Admin edit: violation of rule n°2. Yellow card.] Right, tradition and defense triumphs morality according to your politics.

[millie_(A)TCK]

Lighten up, Millie. He was clearly joking. Anyways, look at how docile Scandinavians are now; they just had to get it out of their system. Better then than now.

Like the German's today?

[Nets]

Yeah but you're somewhat of a conservative asshole. Right, tradition and defense triumphs morality according to your politics.

Hey, leftists are the ones who prey on the weakest in society, not conservatives. Where's the morality in that?

And I rather like Oxy.

[Stipe]

Vikings were violent people in a violent world and it is totally anachronistic to moralize about them according to the standards of today. The Vikings were like any number of other migratory peoples and raiders after the fall of the Roman Empire. They've just subsequently become more romanticized than many of them.

And that romanticized image represents something that a lot of people (including myself) find very attractive; a life of glory and adventure free from the bonds of domesticity. The romantic image doesn't match the historical reality, but it's a hell of a symbol to hold up against the mediocrity of modern life.

[Doomhammer]

Probably, but being proud of that exact aspect of your culture isn't right,now if he had highlighted the more positive aspects

Not really. You cannot say that their war-like nature is a negative thing. Condemning this aspect of Vikings reflect a subjective understanding of other cultures and sets of morals. In this particular case, it would be wrong to be proud of the destructiveness of the Vikings according to slave morality; something which most people from Judea-Christian cultures have. Nietzsche says "FAIL".

Right, tradition and defense triumphs morality according to your politics.

Whose morality? Yours? Someone else's? Why should he care?

Give me a freaking break with this peacenick crap

Anyways, look at how docile Scandinavians are now; they just had to get it out of their system. Better then than now.

Scandinavians haven't been quite the same since poor old Charles XII, the last interesting Swede.

Vikings were violent people in a violent world and it is totally anachronistic to moralize about them according to the standards of today. The Vikings were like any number of other migratory peoples and raiders after the fall of the Roman Empire. They've just subsequently become more romanticized than many of them.

And that romanticized image represents something that a lot of people (including myself) find very attractive; a life of glory and adventure free from the bonds of domesticity. The romantic image doesn't match the historical reality, but it's a hell of a symbol to hold up against the mediocrity of modern life.

I am inspired by your speech. By Odin, let us listen to some METAL!

[millie_(A)TCK]

Hey, leftists are the ones who prey on the weakest in society, not conservatives. Where's the morality in that?

Depends on your definition of a conservative, I equate them with right-wingers and the fascist left. Either way its about maintaining the status quo and tradition and disregarding morality especially of those that are different.

[millie_(A)TCK]

Vikings were violent people in a violent world and it is totally anachronistic to moralize about them according to the standards of today. The Vikings were like any number of other migratory peoples and raiders after the fall of the Roman Empire. They've just subsequently become more romanticized than many of them.

And that romanticized image represents something that a lot of people (including myself) find very attractive; a life of glory and adventure free from the bonds of domesticity. The romantic image doesn't match the historical reality, but it's a hell of a symbol to hold up against the mediocrity of modern life.

What standards today? We still live in a white supremacist, patriarchal, uber-competitive classist capitalist planet. Right and Wrong and whats humane is something embedded in us, culture just distorts that and justifies somethings over others, at the end of the day people can choose to listen to their conscious or society, but its a choice. In sum you can judge the morality of people from any time period.

Can't you dream of being an adventurer without idolizing a bunch of jerks whose actions have been sugarcoated?

[millie_(A)TCK]

Whose morality? Yours? Someone else's? Why should he care?

Morality is innate (if you want to argue this part through, give me 3 weeks when my exams are over then I'll sit for hours and explain) . He doesn't care hence why I called him somewhat of an asshole.

[Doomhammer]

Morality is innate

Right and Wrong and whats humane is something embedded in us

Innate how? Would you have morals or would know of morals if, say, you were born away from civilization?

He doesn't care hence why I called him somewhat of an asshole.

He doesn't have to care. You are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Can't you dream of being an adventurer without idolizing a bunch of jerks whose actions have been sugarcoated?

Are you high?

at the end of the day people can choose to listen to their conscious

Your view of human nature is too idealistic. This conversation is over so far as I am concerned. Have fun with with this nonsense.

[Stipe]

What standards today?

Then to be consistent, you should condemn every culture which has ever existed anywhere.

The Vikings raided, sometimes they conquered (although they never imposed their culture on the lands they seized). In the grand scheme of violence though, they did basically the same things as their contemporaries except because of population pressure from an insufficient agricultural base rather than, say, because God wills it or this or that king or emperor wants to enhance his prestige.

What else did the Vikings do? Oh yeah, they united the Mediterranean and the most remote corners of Europe through long distance trade, left behind one of the most impressive bodies of literature from the period in their ballads, poems, and sagas, a sophisticated material culture, and some of the earliest proto-democratic institutions in the world. But nevermind all that, they were just a bunch of jerks.

[millie_(A)TCK]

Your view of human nature is too idealistic. This conversation is over so far as I am concerned. Have fun with with this nonsense.

I was going to explain my stance and argue your points, but you've already decided to end this so...

Then to be consistent, you should condemn every culture which has ever existed anywhere.

I pretty much do condemn the negative aspects of any culture that exists or has existed. If violence is the main marking of a culture then its barbaric and wrong.

The Vikings raided, sometimes they conquered (although they never imposed their culture on the lands they seized). In the grand scheme of violence though, they did basically the same things as their contemporaries except because of population pressure from an insufficient agricultural base rather than, say, because God wills it or this or that king or emperor wants to enhance his prestige.

Oh please, they weren't starving, last time I checked they didn't raid in order to pillage food but other items.

What else did the Vikings do? Oh yeah, they united the Mediterranean and the most remote corners of Europe through long distance trade, left behind one of the most impressive bodies of literature from the period in their ballads, poems, and sagas, a sophisticated material culture, and some of the earliest proto-democratic institutions in the world. But nevermind all that, they were just a bunch of jerks.

I already answered to this.