Theresa May asks EU for two-year Brexit transition period - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14845843
The Guardian wrote:Theresa May asks EU for two-year Brexit transition period

Speech calling for a pause to full exit until 2021 described as ‘constructive’ by Michel Barnier, the bloc’s chief negotiator.

Anushka Asthana and Rowena Mason - The Guardian - Friday, September 22, 2017

Theresa May proposed pausing a full Brexit until 2021 by asking EU countries to agree to a two-year transition period during which the UK would continue to enjoy unfettered access to the single market.

The prime minister said the government would be prepared to accept EU rules in that time, including allowing EU citizens to live and work in Britain, submitting to European laws and continuing to pay into the EU budget.

But although her speech was described as “constructive” by Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, and appeared to have placated Boris Johnson, the two-year transition plan was immediately criticised by hardline Brexiters for lasting too long – and by business groups for being too short.

May had tried to set out an upbeat vision for Britain’s future relationship with the EU in a speech at the Santa Maria Novella church in the heart of Florence, Italy. Arguing that more time was needed to work on the details of Brexit, May insisted the proposed implementation phase would be “strictly time-limited” lasting “about two years” and the UK would still be formally leaving the bloc in March 2019.

However, she offered a string of concessions to the EU as well as the transition period in a bid to break the deadlock in Brexit negotiations and push talks from the divorce procedures onto questions around the future trading relationship.

The prime minister also suggested that the UK could be ready to offer significantly more than the €20bn (£18bn) bill to cover annual contributions over two years, and discuss other long term liabilities such as pensions and debt.

“I do not want our partners to fear that they will need to pay more or receive less over the remainder of the current budget plan as a result of our decision to leave. The UK will honour commitments we have made during the period of our membership,” she said.

In the 45-minute address, the prime minister also:

  • insisted the UK was “unconditionally committed to maintaining Europe’s security” and offered a new treaty on maintaining law enforcement and criminal justice cooperation
  • indicated that the UK could make extra financial contributions on top of continuing to pay into the EU budget until 2020. She said Britain would “cover our fair share of the costs” to participate in “specific policies and programmes ... such as science, education and culture – and mutual security.”
  • reiterated that the UK will not accept “physical infrastructure at the border” between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, but gave no details that could help break the stalemate in talks in this area.
  • promised to enshrine the rights of EU citizens in the Brexit treaty and allow British courts to take the rulings of the European Court of Justice into account when judging disputed cases

May said she recognised that Brexit was a “distraction” from the work that European countries wanted to focus on, but added: “We have to get this right.”

The prime minister did not set out the type of trading arrangement that Britain would seek after the implementation period, instead repeating a call for EU partners to provide a bespoke deal closer than any that already exist.

She argued that neither the Norway-style deal inside the European Economic Area – favoured by the Treasury – nor a Canada-style free trade deal – favoured by Boris Johnson – “would be best for the UK or best for the European Union.”

May argued that EEA membership would mean accepting rules without influence or votes, which would inflict a “loss of democratic control” that she said British voters would not accept.

She added that the Canada-EU deal was the most advanced that had been carried out, but added: “Compared with what exists between Britain and the EU today, it would nevertheless represent such a restriction on our mutual market access that it would benefit neither of our economies.”

Despite refusing to pick between the two models, some suggested May’s speech, which comes after a week of infighting triggered by Johnson’s decision to publish his own 4,200-word vision of Brexit, leant towards a closer relationship, as favoured by Hammond.

However, the foreign secretary was quick to respond by telling journalists he was “very happy” with the speech, and tweeting:

— Boris Johnson (@BorisJohnson) September 22, 2017

Jeremy Corbyn said it sounded as if the prime minister had listened to the Labour party, which has a policy of remaining within the single market and in a customs union for a limited period.

But he added: “Fifteen months after the EU referendum the government is still no clearer about what our long-term relationship with the EU will look like.”

He said May and her cabinet colleagues [were] were “spending more time negotiating with each other rather than with the EU”, and repeated his claim that the Tories were trying to use Brexit to deregulate and cut taxes.

Reaction among senior Brexit campaign supporters was conflicted, with some reservations about May’s strategy for a transitional period that will maintain the status quo. Owen Paterson, a Tory MP and former cabinet minister, told the Guardian: “The speech was very good really, generous in tone and content.”

But he added: “My main quibble is the transition period as it puts off the time when we can really take advantage of having left. The whole establishment mantra is that business wants to ease in and put off the evil day and it’s all going to be very difficult. That is absolute tosh ... ”

One backbench Brexiteer argued against the security treaty, saying they did not want the UK to continue to take part in Europe-wide schemes and feared that the move could undermine Nato.

Pro EU Tories were largely pleased with the speech, with Nick Morgan calling it a “very realistic Brexit position – finally!”

But business offered a more mixed response, with calls for a longer transition period. Adam Marshall, director general of the British Chambers of Commerce (BCC), praised the “constructive” tone of Theresa May’s speech but he said the transition period should last for at least three years.

“We will challenge both the UK government and the European commission over the coming months to agree a transition that lasts at least three years from the date of our formal exit from the EU, giving businesses enough time to prepare for a final deal,” he said.

Guy Platten, CEO of the UK Chamber of Shipping, said it was welcome to set out plans to reduce friction but argued that a two-year limit was too tight.

The best for both the UK and the European Union would be if Brexit didn't happen, however, what does she want then? It must be hard to decide whether how to change the status quo when you prefer the status quo actually. It's also nice that Norwegian voters got enlightened how much they suck. :lol:
#14845912
It's reasonable indeed, hard Brexiteers may be disappointed though. I also agree that Britain should remain in the EU as long as they want to while leaving. Then they should be asked again perhaps whether they still want to leave after they've realised what Brexit actually means and some of their aged voters have died finally. :lol:
#14845918
Beren wrote:It's still cheaper than EEA membership, which would be unacceptable to British voters anyways, and more benefiting than a Canada-style free trade agreement I guess.


You don't need to convince me.

Convince this guy and the rest of the gang of Euro-skeptic backbenchers. :roll:

[youtube]xyzprQqbf7I[/youtube]
#14845959
Gives them 2 more years to figure out how to stay in the EU/single market while pretending to leave. So far, May's government hasn't made any preparations for leaving the EU and Brexit negotiations have gone nowhere. To get any agreement from the EU, the UK will first have to agree to the conditions set down by the EU for leaving.
#14845960
B0ycey wrote:At least it's another two more years before the shit hits the fan I guess. Still, it will be interesting to see how May/Davis expects to make a deal that isn't cherry picking and also beneficial for both sides. Time for EURef2.

It's two more years before another golden age begins. It will be either a socialist paradise or a deregulated tax haven. Or a resurrected Victorian Britain perhaps. :lol:
#14845964
This was predicted. The status quoted establishment doesn't want Brexit so they will try to delay. Their ideal outcome would be to achieve the appearance of Bexit while staying in the EU. We might expect this 'in again, out again' behaviour to continue for a long time. The problem is that it propagates uncertainty. They should really make a decision one way or the other.
#14845972
It's two more years before another golden age begins. It will be either a socialist paradise or a deregulated tax haven. Or a resurrected Victorian Britain perhaps. :lol:

I'm hoping for a steampunk version of Victorian Britain, complete with steam-powered airships and dreadnaughts, but ruled over by a messianic communist government.... :excited:
#14846054
Beren wrote:It's two more years before another golden age begins. It will be either a socialist paradise or a deregulated tax haven. Or a resurrected Victorian Britain perhaps. :lol:


Brexit is a poison chalice for whoever is in power. Whatever direction you take the UK, half the population will be against you. There is no mandate. There is no direction. And quite simply that is because May is trying to achieve the impossible. It appears she wants to go both directions when you can only go one way or the other. Cable is the only rational leader on this and has a solution that can work. It is time for EUref2. This time with facts and a manfesto written by Brexiteers that we would adhere to should the UK vote leave again. That way there can't be any arguments. There'd be no confusion. We would know the direction to take. Instead we have blind clowns that can't agree with each other leading us towards a cliff edge of uncertainty.

As for Corbyn, he is a great rebel and opposition leader, but he'd be a terrible leader. If he was to get into power, he'd be ousted by the same people who elected him a year later. He can't afford his promises. He has already reversed his tuition fee stance and he'll have to do likewise with privatisation of the railways. Sitting on the floor of an empty carriageway won't provide the money needed when the poor working class voters want their credits increased tenfold. The UK doesn't hold the capital. The next election would be a Brexit defining one. I'm sure his socialist buddies won't take kindly to a lack of jobs, investment or borrowing that the future of Brexit has to offer (along with a socialist government) and be hanging him as a traitor next to MacDonald due to his promises of ' for the many' turning into dust.

Long live the Lib Dems. Long Live for a UK Macron phenomenon!
#14846057
foxdemon wrote:This was predicted. The status quoted establishment doesn't want Brexit so they will try to delay. Their ideal outcome would be to achieve the appearance of Bexit while staying in the EU. We might expect this 'in again, out again' behaviour to continue for a long time. The problem is that it propagates uncertainty. They should really make a decision one way or the other.


The EU isn't the biggest problem. EU has a dirty little secret called The Barcelona Declaration. Go read it...
#14846062
Politiks wrote:The EU isn't the biggest problem. EU has a dirty little secret called The Barcelona Declaration. Go read it...



Who me? But I am not European. Maybe these other posters should read it. But I do know that it led to the Union for the Mediterranean. I am surprised it is still mentioned. The 2005 meeting was a flop as few non-EU countries attended.

Here's a uni in Bacelona you might want to know about if you missed my other links for it:

https://unu.edu/about/unu-system/unu-barcelona#overview

It seems the good burghers of Barcelona are very globally conscious citizens. But what has this got to do with Brexit? Do you think the bubbleheadism coming from Bacelona is driving the British out of the EU?
#14846091
foxdemon wrote:Who me? But I am not European. Maybe these other posters should read it. But I do know that it led to the Union for the Mediterranean. I am surprised it is still mentioned. The 2005 meeting was a flop as few non-EU countries attended.

Here's a uni in Bacelona you might want to know about if you missed my other links for it:

https://unu.edu/about/unu-system/unu-barcelona#overview

It seems the good burghers of Barcelona are very globally conscious citizens. But what has this got to do with Brexit? Do you think the bubbleheadism coming from Bacelona is driving the British out of the EU?


The Union of the Mediterranean is a cute name they gave to it for publicity purpose. The Barcelona Agreement is when EU sold Europe for Islamization in exchange of oil and money.

It isn't a "mediterranean unit", is a document the EU signed giving several Muslim nations free access to Europe. Not just access but also the mass Mosque building, protection of Islam as a religious and "life choice".

Maybe the reason they call the religion of Mohammad you know that fascist political regime based on war and rape, religion of peace is because they can't call the cow a cow so they pretend is a pig, maybe is also part of the agreement in parts that were not mad public.

Abstract from the Barcelona - Euro Mediterranean Declaration of 1995:

The Euro Mediterranean Declaration was agreed upon by the EU, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Jordan, the Palestinian Authority, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey and Israel and comprises:

Comprehensive political partnership, among other things about:

Establishing a free trade area and economic integration to begin in the year of 2010
Considerably more money for the partners
Cultural partnership.
Respect for Islam Is Guaranteed by the EU

Multiculturalism is to be respected in order to promote tolerance between different ethnic groups in society. The importance of a resolute common campaign against racism, xenophobia and intolerance is emphasized. [Breaking News - January 2008 !]

Close mutual European-Muslim influence on radio, television, newspapers and magazines is to bring about cultural understanding. The EU will actively promote such mutual influences. Youth exchange is one of the instruments for cooperation between future Euro Mediterranean generations. Barcelona declaration adopted at the Euro-Mediterranean Conference [27-28/11/95] [Story continues beyond image insert]

The EU Offers the Populations of 9 Muslim Countries Free Movement of Goods, Services, Capital and People into the EU.

In return for concrete political and economic changes the EU offers integration in the expanded internal market of the EU and the possibility to obtain free movement for goods, services, money and people.

Association agreements have been made with all partner countries except Syria (Abstract from 28.11.2003 account of Euro Mediterranean Foreign Minister Conference in Naples held on 2.-3.12.2003!!).

Negotiations about Turkish EU entrance began in 2005.

Note: The account was published by the EU-commission 6 days before the Foreign Minister Conference!
So – who rules the EU? Read the account here: 6th Conference of Euro-Mediterranean Foreign Ministers Naples, 2-3 December, 2003

Confirmed by the Danish Prime Minister on 29.08.06 in correspondence. However, the Prime Minister twice refused to inform why he, our governments and the media have kept absolutely silent about the Euro Mediterranean Project.

Three weeks after the terror attack in 2001 on the WTO Center in New York, the EU knelt before Islam, and the Euro Mediterranean Project is now being used as a lightning conductor.

UNCCP
'The ministers declined as both dangerous and unfounded any connection between terror and the Arab and Muslim world. In this context the importance of the Barcelona Process was emphasized by everybody as a suitable and recognized instrument to promote a dialogue between equal partners and civilizations.

The ministers agreed to work on deepening the on-going dialogue between the cultures and civilizations, especially wanting to direct attention towards youth, education, and the media'.
Account from the 5.-6.10.2001- Euro Mediterranean Foreign Conference in Brussels


#14846094
B0ycey wrote:Cable is the only rational leader on this and has a solution that can work. It is time for EUref2.

Wikipedia wrote:Cable thinks Brexit may never happen. He maintains when people see the economic costs they will turn against it and a cross-party coalition of opponents to Brexit may develop. Cable said, “the whole question of continued membership will once again arise” if people's living standards worsened and unemployment rose. A Survation poll pointed to 53% of people backing a second referendum on accepting or rejecting the final Brexit terms, with 47% opposed.

The problem with Brexit is that it's against the commercial and geopolitical interests of the UK. If you do most of your trade with Europe and it's only a 33.3 km wide strait separating you from her, then you should be inside the EU obviously, especially if there is not any chance of making a better deal.
#14846098
It would in the UK's interest for Europe to sink into the sea. Christ I am a Leninist and even I am thinking of UKIP at the next general election. The capitalists are such fucking snakes. The working class form the majority of the British nation and we want out of the 4th Reich now. No transition period, no bullshit and we don't give them a damn penny. If anything they owe us money. We have done nothing but funnel it into the EU since were force to join in the first place. Any refusial by Europe should be dealt with the same way we dealt with Hitler's EU.

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