[Beren]

Christ I am a Leninist and even I am thinking of UKIP at the next general election.

And who's surprised by this except for yourself?

[B0ycey]

Christ I am a Leninist and even I am thinking of UKIP at the next general election.

You are thinking of voting for the most right wing party in the UK that no longer have any relevance today and not voting for 'Saint' Corbyn - The Second coming?

Perhaps the far-left and the far-right are no so different after all.

[foxdemon]

The Union of the Mediterranean is a cute name they gave to it for publicity purpose. The Barcelona Agreement is when EU sold Europe for Islamization in exchange of oil and money.

It isn't a "mediterranean unit", is a document the EU signed giving several Muslim nations free access to Europe. Not just access but also the mass Mosque building, protection of Islam as a religious and "life choice".

Maybe the reason they call the religion of Mohammad you know that fascist political regime based on war and rape, religion of peace is because they can't call the cow a cow so they pretend is a pig, maybe is also part of the agreement in parts that were not mad public.

Abstract from the Barcelona - Euro Mediterranean Declaration of 1995:

The Euro Mediterranean Declaration was agreed upon by the EU, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Jordan, the Palestinian Authority, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey and Israel and comprises:

Comprehensive political partnership, among other things about:

Establishing a free trade area and economic integration to begin in the year of 2010
Considerably more money for the partners
Cultural partnership.
Respect for Islam Is Guaranteed by the EU

Multiculturalism is to be respected in order to promote tolerance between different ethnic groups in society. The importance of a resolute common campaign against racism, xenophobia and intolerance is emphasized. [Breaking News - January 2008 !]

Close mutual European-Muslim influence on radio, television, newspapers and magazines is to bring about cultural understanding. The EU will actively promote such mutual influences. Youth exchange is one of the instruments for cooperation between future Euro Mediterranean generations. Barcelona declaration adopted at the Euro-Mediterranean Conference [27-28/11/95] [Story continues beyond image insert]

The EU Offers the Populations of 9 Muslim Countries Free Movement of Goods, Services, Capital and People into the EU.

In return for concrete political and economic changes the EU offers integration in the expanded internal market of the EU and the possibility to obtain free movement for goods, services, money and people.

Association agreements have been made with all partner countries except Syria (Abstract from 28.11.2003 account of Euro Mediterranean Foreign Minister Conference in Naples held on 2.-3.12.2003!!).

Negotiations about Turkish EU entrance began in 2005.

Note: The account was published by the EU-commission 6 days before the Foreign Minister Conference!
So – who rules the EU? Read the account here: 6th Conference of Euro-Mediterranean Foreign Ministers Naples, 2-3 December, 2003

Confirmed by the Danish Prime Minister on 29.08.06 in correspondence. However, the Prime Minister twice refused to inform why he, our governments and the media have kept absolutely silent about the Euro Mediterranean Project.

Three weeks after the terror attack in 2001 on the WTO Center in New York, the EU knelt before Islam, and the Euro Mediterranean Project is now being used as a lightning conductor.

UNCCP
'The ministers declined as both dangerous and unfounded any connection between terror and the Arab and Muslim world. In this context the importance of the Barcelona Process was emphasized by everybody as a suitable and recognized instrument to promote a dialogue between equal partners and civilizations.

The ministers agreed to work on deepening the on-going dialogue between the cultures and civilizations, especially wanting to direct attention towards youth, education, and the media'.
Account from the 5.-6.10.2001- Euro Mediterranean Foreign Conference in Brussels

The thing is, though, they never hid it. This project was always public knowledge. The EU leadership didn't explain it to Europe's citizens, but when have they ever bothered to explain anything to the masses?

The EU has been behaving like an empire, crushing nationalism within Europe while expanding as much as it can into Estern Europe and the Mediterranean. The eastern expansion has bought them into conflict with Russia and the southern expansion has opened them to an Islamic insurgency, while they try to suppress resurgent nationalism in their core provinces. I guess the haughty leaders of the EU thought they were so powerful that they could get away with it. But now they have all sorts of problems.

But we must stay on topic. Is this why so many British want out of the EU? Is it that they want to escape this empire, a supposed open society which has become a totalitarian dystopia.

[Beren]

I'm hoping for a steampunk version of Victorian Britain, complete with steam-powered airships and dreadnaughts, but ruled over by a messianic communist government....

A resurrection of Victorian Britain could mean a resurrection of Marxism too indeed, however, in my opinion most people would be more interested in a Waterworld version of the Tudor era with Kevin Costner as Francis Drake.

[Vanasalus]

Ken Clarke once in a House of Commons speech coined "Alice in Wonderland" metaphor to describe post-brexit Britain:

“Apparently you follow the rabbit down the hole and emerge in a Wonderland where suddenly countries throughout the world are queuing up to give us trading advantages and access to their markets that previously we’ve never been able to achieve. Nice men like President Trump and President Erdogan are just impatient to abandon their normal protectionism and give us access . . . No doubt somewhere there’s a hatter holding a tea party with a dormouse!”

It was one of the best speeches ever.

[youtube]60uHy-cUmHw[/youtube]

[Beren]

I think both the British and the Americans are having a tea party in Wonderland right now. They'll have lots of experiences to share when they return.

[Politiks]

The thing is, though, they never hid it. This project was always public knowledge. The EU leadership didn't explain it to Europe's citizens, but when have they ever bothered to explain anything to the masses?

The EU has been behaving like an empire, crushing nationalism within Europe while expanding as much as it can into Estern Europe and the Mediterranean. The eastern expansion has bought them into conflict with Russia and the southern expansion has opened them to an Islamic insurgency, while they try to suppress resurgent nationalism in their core provinces. I guess the haughty leaders of the EU thought they were so powerful that they could get away with it. But now they have all sorts of problems.

But we must stay on topic. Is this why so many British want out of the EU? Is it that they want to escape this empire, a supposed open society which has become a totalitarian dystopia.

About the bold, the answer is yes and no. Yes, British people voted BREXIT because they feel, see something is wrong and that something is getting worse. If you ask me if the "median British voter" would be able to put in words like you did that "feeling" ? I don't think so. Most people, the ones who are not in a ideological spectrum , the majority of people, from most part isn't as versed in politics and economics. On the other hand they can point out what they see in a day by day life: their money can buy less every year, they are getting more Muslims by the year, Sharia courts and Mosques are spreading across the country, they have no idea who the EU people are that's why they call them "they" because they can't name them and that makes them uncomfortable. They see their PM's are irrelevant in decisions that really affect their country, I believe that is how a typical low/middle class Brit translates what will make them want to Brexit. Mainstream media went from thinking people were a bit slow to treating people as if they have a IQ lower than 80. Calling Islam a religion of peace is one of those moments, believing most Europeans or Americans have a IQ lower than 80.

Politicians usually sell 2 things: fear or hope. Nigel Farage brilliantly managed to sell both at the same time. The hope Britain will thrive economically outside the EU and that immigration would stop. At the same time he sold fear of remaining in the EU, that Britain will go broke, a Muslim invasion was imminent.

Truth is, Britain will be ok in both cases, exiting or not. What needs to change more than anything is the relationship the British Government has with Islamic money, specially investments. We have a park with a 2 billion investment being build by Muslims in Kent. Do you think Muslim demanded more Mosques among other things to make such investment?

[foxdemon]

@Politiks I agree. Britain can survive prefectly well outside the EU. In fact there is a whole world of countries outside the EU who are thriving. It is a curious myth that nations in Europe have to be part of the EU if they want a healthy economy.

Yet we see countries like Greece which clearly prove being part of the EU doesn't guarantee prosperity. The EU is using an exclusive trade block policy to entice adjacent nations to join and then using punitive measures to keep them in the empire (yes, it is an imperial power model) and subjugated to the central authority. Forcing member nations to accept illegal immigrants being a good example of how Brussels destroys state sovereignty.

[Ned Lud]

@Politiks I agree. Britain can survive prefectly well outside the EU. In fact there is a whole world of countries outside the EU who are thriving. It is a curious myth that nations in Europe have to be part of the EU if they want a healthy economy.

Yet we see countries like Greece which clearly prove being part of the EU doesn't guarantee prosperity. The EU is using an exclusive trade block policy to entice adjacent nations to join and then using punitive measures to keep them in the empire (yes, it is an imperial power model) and subjugated to the central authority. Forcing member nations to accept illegal immigrants being a good example of how Brussels destroys state sovereignty.

Any country which decides to break of relations with its major market, makes silly conditions to please its own nutters and expects to be given the moon is destined to starve, in my view. Having destroyed its industry for political reasons, what has it got?

[foxdemon]

Any country which decides to break of relations with its major market, makes silly conditions to please its own nutters and expects to be given the moon is destined to starve, in my view. Having destroyed its industry for political reasons, what has it got?

An Englishman would not think that way. Rather a true Englishman would be conspiring with the Chinese to use Chinese capital and British influence to exploit political differences between Brussels and Eastern European countries in order to break the trade block apart. That way you'd have access to your major markets and on your own terms.

[ingliz]

No transition period, no bullshit and we don't give them a damn penny. If anything they owe us money.

"taking back control"

WTO rules and third country Britain faces a legal limbo or keeps its schedules precisely as they were under the EU, including maintaining the EU’s common external tariff.

legal limbo

There is a process in the WTO that allows the UK to submit new schedules. But they can only be adopted – or certified – and thus replace the existing EU schedules if none of the WTO’s other 163 members object to them.

Spain and Argentina will be pleased.

[Ned Lud]

An Englishman would not think that way. Rather a true Englishman would be conspiring with the Chinese to use Chinese capital and British influence to exploit political differences between Brussels and Eastern European countries in order to break the trade block apart. That way you'd have access to your major markets and on your own terms.

Trouble is that it would require other people to be as silly-subtle as the posturing UK government, and nobody is, especially the Chinese! Chiilai!

[Beren]

I really wonder how someone gets the idea that China would be willing to undermine the EU. And they would give their money of course while the British would weigh in with their precious influence!

[Decky]

You are thinking of voting for the most right wing party in the UK that no longer have any relevance today and not voting for 'Saint' Corbyn - The Second coming?

Perhaps the far-left and the far-right are no so different after all.

UKIP are harldy the most right wing party in the UK, there are loads of tiny neo fascist parts to the right of them.

As for Corbyn he has betreayed the left on loads, he betrayed us on leaving NATO, he has betrayed us on his left wing Euroskeptism, he has betreayed us on republicanism, he has betrayed us on most things and instead decided to keep the middle class Blairites happy but being as right wing as possible.

The middle class scum in London need to know that staying in the EU will loose them votes. I thought Corbyn would bring Labour back to the working class so there would finally be a left wing Eurosceptic pro worker party to vote for. Instead is is keeping the Europe loving millionares happy and shitting on the Europe hateing workers.

[B0ycey]

I thought Corbyn would bring Labour back to the working class so there would finally be a left wing Eurosceptic pro worker party to vote for. Instead is is keeping the Europe loving millionares happy and shitting on the Europe hateing workers.

I am no fan of Corbyn, but he is pretty much reciting the same hard Brexit rhetoric the Tories are saying now. He criticises the Tories but his solutions are exactly the same. Had Labour got into power the talks would have stalled at the same points the Tories keep hitting now. So being we are on opposite sides of the Brexit measure, I find it strange that you think Corbyn isn't Eurosceptic. His failings are that he can't afford his promises. Not that that his promises are anti-unionist.

Nonetheless, you should listen to another Blairite, who isn't a Blairite. Burnham wants to promote working class programs such as apprenticeships and industrialise and promote the North, taking control from the South - primarily London. You should listen to him. He might have something you find interesting.

[Decky]

You think the Tories are promoting a hard Brexit line? What world are you living in? They want to give the EU more of our money, they want to continue to import tousands of units of surplus labour to weaken our unions and push down our wages, they want a single market where cheap shoddy European goods flood into the country and stop people buying British thus putting british workers on the dole, their wives in brothels and their kids on the streets.

Also Burnham is a fucking Cambridge graduate who went straight into politics and was in a safe seat by 31. I have more qualification to be a Labour Prime Minister than he does at least I have worked. He would be better off in the Tories.

[B0ycey]

You think the Tories are promoting a hard Brexit line? What world are you living in? They want to give the EU more of our money, they want to continue to import tousands of units of surplus labour to weaken our unions and push down our wages, they want a single market where cheap shoddy European goods flood into the country and stop people buying British thus putting british workers on the dole, their wives in brothels and their kids on the streets.

The Tories are offering a transitional period of two years. Same as Labour. After that both want access to the single market but want to cherry pick the terms. Because of this, the result will be hard Brexit as the UK doesn't need a trade deal. It needs a deal on services. You see things as black and white. I see things as they are. You are wrong that jobs are created in isolation. Working class jobs rely on the single market more than you would ever care to admit.

Also Burnham is a fucking Cambridge graduate who went straight into politics and was in a safe seat by 31. I have more qualification to be a Labour Prime Minister than he does at least I have worked. He would be better off in the Tories.

Labour was set up to give workers rights in industries (rail) where there was none. It is a misnomer that Labour were just unionists turning up to Westminster in flatcaps. Labour reached all levels of society even at its genesis. Burnham is actually traditional/real Labour and not socialist Labour of the 70s. Perhaps you won't give him your ear. Your loss. But he does actually speak up for some of the issues you highlighted with far better solutions than Corbyn could dream of.

[Decky]

He hasn't ever had a fucking job! What would he know about what we want or need?

[B0ycey]

Perhaps if you're going to waste your vote on right wing jokers, why don't you give it to the 'real left' SLP instead? Do you think Farage understands workers or has done a real job in his life?

[foxdemon]

I really wonder how someone gets the idea that China would be willing to undermine the EU. And they would give their money of course while the British would weigh in with their precious influence!

Oh really?

https://theconversation.com/chinas-grand-geopolitical-project-threatens-a-new-east-west-divide-in-europe-79477


Seems that plenty of Eastern European countries find Chinese money a better alternative to German or French money. Less political strings attached, you see.

All the British need to do is engage in strategic ambiguity through the 'in-again, out-again' policy in order to position themselves to take advantage of new opportunities as the EU gets pulled apart. In a less unified Europe, London will be a valuable financial centre for Asian investment in Europe.

The EU trade block is only a problem as long as it continues to exist.