[SpecialOlympian]

I can't believe a guy who volunteered to manage Trump's campaign for free for no readily apparent reason could have anything shady going on.

Good thing this is all very good news for Trump!

[Beren]

The New York Times reported that Kushner, along with his wife Ivanka Trump, also pushed Trump to hire Manafort, who was needed to fill the spot of Trump’s initial campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, after Ivanka reportedly gave her father an ultimatum to fire him.

Ivanka seems to have an obviously great leverage on her father.

I hope Trump goes to full-scale war with Mueller, that'd be awesome!

[SpecialOlympian]

The best brains!

[The Immortal Goon]

But doesn't that sort of show they really don't have any clear evidence of wrongdoing? It looks like they're just shaking the tree to see what if anything falls out.

I don't think it shows that necessarily. Even if you have an eye witness and books documenting a crime (and I'm not suggesting that this is the case here), you want to use that to flip the people at the bottom and keep flipping everyone on the way up. This protects against appeal and anything the judge might throw at you.

Because the suspect has the right to appeal over and over, you want to make everything as air-tight as possible in the initial push. Especially if there's a bunch of money and political will behind it.

This is not to say it's a slam dunk or anything. But I would suspect that going as high as they did right away doesn't look good. There are plenty of other underlings they could have gone to flip before going at this level.

But again, to be clear, I am making no predictions about this.

[Libertarian353]

@The Immortal Goon

Don't you think trump would be the least bit suspect? He's been loving and defending Putin alot more than an normal president who just want great relations with Russia would have. Besides if there is no evidence why are they panicking? Only the guilty panics.

[The Immortal Goon]

@The Immortal Goon

Don't you think trump would be the least bit suspect? He's been loving and defending Putin alot more than an normal president who just want great relations with Russia would have. Besides if there is no evidence why are they panicking? Only the guilty panics.

I think that there is plenty Trump is guilty of. But this is politics, and notoriously filthy at about every level.

But there are a lot of interests out there that want to see him through. When those hillbilly terrorists took over part of Oregon through the Malheur standoff I immediately called that they were going to get off on it. And sure enough the Republican Party lined up behind them, the Democrats said nothing, and the message that land that belonged collectively to the people should be given to millionaires and companies to do with as their please was taken up as a calling cry.

And, sure enough, the judge would only let the prosecution proceed with a single offense—conspiracy to intimidate Federal employees. And she would not allow Federal employees to testify about whether they were intimidated or not.

And the terrorists walked free.

This may well happen with Trump. He's dirty, sure. But this kind of financial filth doesn't really actually mean anything in bourgeois politics.

Not like it would in a different system that might have other corruption problems. In the US though, Trump might be dirty as hell and not have anything come of it.

[Libertarian353]

@TheImmortalGoon The double standard is cancerous but for the republicans it's about pleasing the voters and money. The voters it's race. Scratch that, republicans are about race as well.

[Sivad]

Not like it would in a different system that might have other corruption problems.

We need a death penalty for official corruption. To really clean up politics in this country we'd have to execute a couple hundred of these crooks just to send the message.

In the US though, Trump might be dirty as hell and not have anything come of it.

If they wind up getting him on some unrelated shit that they turned up in the course of a broad investigation then we'll know this whole business was bullshit. I think that's the likely outcome here. I hope at the end of this thing everyone remembers that the establishment, from the intelligence chiefs to the congressional committees, went all in, under oath, on Trump illegally colluding with Russia.

[SpecialOlympian]

It's always a good sign when investigators want to talk to you for hours and hours.

Edit: lol

[Stormsmith]

I figure Trump's going to be up all hours of the night, not because Manafort, Gates et al have been charged, but because Mueller declared the cases complex, meaning the amount of time necessary to prosecute these charges may appear ahhhhh excessive but be that as it may, no calling foul for not getting a speedy trial

And because Mueller's got their income tax forms, presumably from more than one country.

[Ter]

Besides if there is no evidence why are they panicking? Only the guilty panics.

That is in my experience not true.
I know some shady people, gangsters actually, who have a lot of legal problems and they don't care about it at all, they are used to it and continue to live their life as usual.
And I know very decent, honest, law-abiding citizens who faced only one problem that made them panic, kept them from sleeping at night and change their whole life because of it.

[Libertarian353]

And I know very decent, honest, law-abiding citizens who faced only one problem that made them panic, kept them from sleeping at night and change their whole life because of it.

What's that have to do with trump panicking, a guilty man panics when he getting corner. Knowing trump who's neither any of those things, he's guilty.

[Ter]

What's that have to do with trump panicking, a guilty man panics when he getting corner. Knowing trump who's neither any of those things, he's guilty.

Why do you say that Trump is panicking and what do you think he is guilty of ?

[Hong Wu]

Ya, I wonder what evidence there is of Trump panicking other than Tweets, which can be interpreted in a number of ways? I see more evidence of the Hillary/Podesta clan panicking.

[Beren]

I don't think anyone is panicking here, as Ter said gangsters don't panic, and I'm sure Trump is pretty much used to it, but he must be really angry/upset/frustrated and busy trying to figure out what to do.

[Buzz62]

What's that have to do with trump panicking, a guilty man panics when he getting corner. Knowing trump who's neither any of those things, he's guilty.

You and your ASSUMPTIONS...
What are you gonna do if all this ends with a whimper? If no charges are laid on Trump?
Scream at the sky? If you decide to do that...can I watch please?

[Beren]

A 58 percent majority say they approve of Mueller’s handling of the investigation, while 28 percent say they disapprove, the Post-ABC poll finds. People’s views depend in large part on their political leanings, but overall, Americans are generally inclined to trust Mueller and the case he has made so far.

The poll finds strong backing for the charges against Manafort and Gates — nearly 7 in 10 approve — and a general suspicion that more is to come.

A narrow 53 percent majority say those charges and the plea by Papadopoulos for lying to the FBI represented broader wrongdoing by people involved in Trump’s campaign, while 28 percent think they are limited to these instances.

That may help people understand why Trump is so frustrated and tweets like crazy. (Current tweeting rate is 4 tweets/hour.)

He means to reach out to the 28% which must be his base.

[anna]

What are you gonna do if all this ends with a whimper? If no charges are laid on Trump?
Scream at the sky? If you decide to do that...can I watch please?

I'm prepared for the fact that Trump has a good chance of skating through, protected by a GOP congress too wimpy to stand on principle.

That doesn't mean he isn't an abject ignoramus, a failure, fraud, and embarrassment to the country, it just means he got away with it with a little help from his friends.

[Hong Wu]

So there's four prepared indictments left.

One is basically confirmed to be Tony Podesta.

Second is probably Vin Weber, a Republican congressman associated with Mercury group.

Third and fourth are unknown but we can guess. If Podesta and Weber are correct, that would mean that two of the four have nothing to do with Trump. The two left could be (1) Trump inner circle people, (2) more low level Trump people, (3) people tied to Manafort, Podesta or Weber. Considering the course of the known indictments and what the guilty plea said I would bet on #3.

[Hindsite]

I'm prepared for the fact that Trump has a good chance of skating through, protected by a GOP congress too wimpy to stand on principle.

That doesn't mean he isn't an abject ignoramus, a failure, fraud, and embarrassment to the country, it just means he got away with it with a little help from his friends.

The Congress is going to be investigating Mueller next for Russian collusion and obstruction of justice along with Comey. Then a new special prosecutor will be assigned.