House passes GOP tax bill - Page 13 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14871603
Stormsmith wrote:Pity. This programme would have generated real jobs. Jobs that require skills and pay labourers well, as opposed to jobs done by machines, robots etc.


A few years ago (Bush administration) the eastern electrical system went down. Were any improvements on it undertaken?
#14871641
Hindsite wrote:10 percent (up to $19,050)
12 percent (above $19,050 up to $77,400)
22 percent (above $77,400 up to $165,000)
24 percent (above $165,000 up to $315,000)
32 percent (above $315,000 up to $400,000)
35 percent (above $400,000 up to $600,000)
37 percent (above $600,000).


Why tax the poorest also ?
Most countries have a threshold under which no income tax has to be paid at all.
With this system, even a burger flipper at MacDonald's has to cough up 10% ?
That is heartless.
#14871671
Ter wrote:Why tax the poorest also ?
Most countries have a threshold under which no income tax has to be paid at all.
With this system, even a burger flipper at MacDonald's has to cough up 10% ?
That is heartless.

Per the study "The Redistributive State: The Allocation of Government Benefits, Services, and Taxes in the United States," under the current tax structure, the bottom quintile pay $98 billion in taxes/revenues while receiving $667 billion in benefits and services, a ratio of 1:6.8. I expect that under the new law that ratio will grow even greater. The top quintile pays $1,602 billion while receiving $494 billion, a ratio of 3.24:1.
#14871682
Ter wrote:Why tax the poorest also ?
Most countries have a threshold under which no income tax has to be paid at all.
With this system, even a burger flipper at MacDonald's has to cough up 10% ?
That is heartless.

You are overlooking that under this new tax plan the first $12, 000 for a single person and $24,000 for a married couple are tax free because of the approximate doubling of the standard deduction from what it is now.
#14871765
You are overlooking that under this new tax plan the first $12, 000 for a single person and $24,000 for a married couple are tax free because of the approximate doubling of the standard deduction from what it is now.


And you are overlooking just about everything in this bill. You are, of course, incorrect. I have already explained that to you but I will be charitable and say that you seemed to have missed it rather than that you are not able to understand.

And how about a "Praise the Lord" from you for churches which are a HUGE looser in this bill which virtually eliminates any tax incentive for the majority of people to contribute. But don't worry sport. The evangelicals are simply not smart enough to have figured this out yet and probably never will.

But I think I should, in fair disclosure, remind you Hindsite, that at my income level, as the bill is written now, I might actually get a tax break. Most high income earners will. If you think that I intend to pass any of that down to my people you are deluded. In fact, the bill discourages me from doing that. Never mind how. There is not a snowball''s chance in hell that you will understand the explanation.
#14871884
As things stand now, the top 1 percent of the population by wealth — the group that would primarily benefit from the tax bill — controls nearly 40 percent of the country’s wealth. The bottom 90 percent has just 27 percent.

Most political campaigns now rely on a small group of wealthy donors who give tens of thousands of dollars or more per election cycle. About 40 percent of contributions to campaigns during the 2016 federal election came from an elite group of 24,949 donors, equivalent to 0.01 percent of the adult population. In 1980, the top 0.01 percent accounted for only 15 percent of all contributions, according to an analysis by Adam Bonica, a Stanford professor, and his collaborators.

The power of the one-percenters may help explain why President Trump, who ran as a populist, has not only abandoned any pretense of fighting for the working class but also joined Republicans in Congress in ripping up regulations that protect families and the environment — in order to help business tycoons.

But even now, Mr. Trump and Republicans in Congress are talking about cutting government programs like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security next year to help make up for the more than $1 trillion the tax bill would add to the federal deficit.

ps...... Numerous industries will benefit from the Republican tax overhaul, but perhaps none as dramatically as the industry where Mr. Trump earned his riches: commercial real estate. Mr. Trump, along with his son-in-law Jared Kushner, who is part owner of his own real estate firm, will benefit from lower taxes on so-called “pass through” income, which is money earned by partnerships and other types of businesses whose income is passed through to its owner and taxed at the individual tax rate. Mr. Trump and Mr. Kushner benefit since they own properties through limited liability companies and other similar vehicles.

Perhaps the peasants will revolt at some time in the near future :) .
#14871888
jimjam wrote:
The power of the one-percenters may help explain why President Trump, who ran as a populist, has not only abandoned any pretense of fighting for the working class but also joined Republicans in Congress in ripping up regulations that protect families and the environment — in order to help business tycoons.


Most of the morons that still support Trump, still believe he's fighting for the working class.

The reality doesn't matter, it's the perception, and the perception amongs most morons is Trump is helping the working classes.
#14871943
Drlee wrote:But I think I should, in fair disclosure, remind you Hindsite, that at my income level, as the bill is written now, I might actually get a tax break. Most high income earners will.

And not just them. According the tax plan calculator, in Nevada the average family at median income will keep ~$1,107 more of their own earnings. For Utah, the savings is ~$1,762.
#14871988
And not just them. According the tax plan calculator, in Nevada the average family at median income will keep ~$1,107 more of their own earnings. For Utah, the savings is ~$1,762.


As long as they do not have over two children, give substantially to their church, or rely on any government services which will be cut dramatically. And, of course, as long as they do not participate in private health insurance, the cost of which will skyrocket under this new bill.

You can try to parse this any way you like. EVERY credible source calls this bill a disaster for the middle class and a boon for the wealthy. Every one.
#14872065
Drlee wrote:As long as they do not have over two children, give substantially to their church, or rely on any government services which will be cut dramatically. And, of course, as long as they do not participate in private health insurance, the cost of which will skyrocket under this new bill.

You can try to parse this any way you like. EVERY credible source calls this bill a disaster for the middle class and a boon for the wealthy. Every one.

There is a $2,000 tax credit for every child. There is also deductions for charitable donations, which include those to churches. And there is no mention of any reduction in government services in the bill. The sources you are getting your nonsense from are not credible at all, because they are lying. It is only some of the wealthy that don't like it, because they can no longer deduct some of their extravagant life styles as tax deductions. The tax bill is a boon for the wealthy corporations for the reason of growing the economy at a faster rate. That benefits everyone in the long run.
#14872080
Drlee wrote:As long as they do not have over two children, give substantially to their church, or rely on any government services which will be cut dramatically. And, of course, as long as they do not participate in private health insurance, the cost of which will skyrocket under this new bill.

You can try to parse this any way you like. EVERY credible source calls this bill a disaster for the middle class and a boon for the wealthy. Every one.

As Hindsite says, the child tax credit is per head -- in Utah make it four children and they get a check from Washington for $3,470, $2,649 more than under the current system. As for the predicted effects on health care, as best I can tell that seems to be premised on the theory that the tax cuts will balloon the deficit while having no impact on the economy. That's ludicrous, just the anticipation that the tax bill will pass seems to be boosting the economy. Besides, where were those shouting about the deficit now while Obama tripled it? And the expected cuts to government services? The only way I can see that happening is in those high-tax states that are being subsidized by the deduction for state and local taxes, which is now capped at $10,000. Personally I think it should have been repealed entirely (why should other more economically responsible states be subsidizing the state and local services of the big spenders?), but the boars guarding the pigs at the trough bellowed too loudly. At least with this way some of that subsidy is being done away with.
#14872140
Neither of you understand the tax bill. It is just pathetic. Please consider the difference between a child tax credit and the personal exemption for each child. The child tax credit goes up a few hundred. The $4000.00 + personal exemption per child goes away entirely.

I am really not inclined to argue with you to about this. You are so blinded by tribalism and so ignorant of the bill that I think it would be hopeless to try. Neither of you would admit you were wrong if you were anyway. That would require intellectual honesty that I have not seen on the right for a decade or more. Both of your posts clearly show that you do not understand the bill.

Now why don't you post some snarky remark claiming victory because I am simply not willing to do your homework.
#14872155
Drlee wrote:Now why don't you post some snarky remark claiming victory because I am simply not willing to do your homework.

I'm sure those that set up the tax plan calculator "did their homework," and I posted the savings that the bill will give median income average families in two states -- they'll certainly be getting back more than I will. Check your own location for the same if you wish, tax savings for almost all.
#14872391
A simpler explanation and he uses small words, so Conservatives can understand him, too:
#14872406
Godstud wrote:A simpler explanation and he uses small words, so Conservatives can understand him, too:

You don't even live in the USA, so what you post on the subject is bullshit.

That guy in the video is one of the dumbass liberal Democrats on FOX News. He always says that everything Trump and the Republicans do is not good. I think he is just another lying Democrat.

The rich already pay higher tax rates than everyone else. So it would not be fair to give middle income people tax breaks and ignore the more wealthy that pay most of the taxes. The Corporation tax reduction is meant to make them more competitive in the world so that our economy benefits by bringing more wealth into the country that will produce more jobs and more tax revenue. This does benefit the rich, but it also benefits our society as a whole.
#14872414
Hindiste wrote:You don't even live in the USA, so what you post on the subject is bullshit.
You aren't even a sane individual so everything you post on this subject is bullshit. ;)

Gee, it sure is easy making stupid statements. I'm learning a lot from you! :lol:

You don't need to be intimidated by people who don't live in America, but are more educated than yourself about it. Should I ask you to kindly not talk about anything, since you are completely unqualified to comment on anything that requires rational thought? Is that what we do on these forums? :roll:

Is the new standard Conservative argument now, "You don't live here so you don't know!"? If so, it's rather childish. It's a lame attempt to stifle discussion.

The guy in the video is an economist, which is something you are not. You've demonstrated that you know almost nothing about this bill, but support it unconditionally because it was made by the GO Pedophiles.

Hindsite wrote: This does benefit the rich, but it also benefits our society as a whole.
This is false. History has proven this, already.

Causes of Wage Stagnation
This dismal wage growth is the result of intentional policy choices made on behalf of those with the most income, wealth, and political power. As explained below, these choices fall into five broad categories: the abandonment of full employment as a main objective of economic policymaking, declining union density, various labor market policies and business practices, policies that have allowed CEOs and finance executives to capture ever larger shares of economic growth, and globalization policies. Collectively, these policy decisions have shifted economic power away from low- and middle-wage workers and toward corporate owners and managers.

One driver of these wage trends has been financial deregulation, which has affected wage growth for the vast majority in a number of ways. First, it has enabled finance professionals to claim excessive pay and bonuses by simply hiding risk that they should be managing. The financial sector has more than doubled in size relative to the rest of the economy over the past generation, and is hugely overrepresented in the top 1 percent of wage and income earners. Second, because wealth holders are significantly more inflation-averse than the rest of the population, the financial industry has used its political power to ensure that economic policy favors low inflation rates over low unemployment rates.

http://www.epi.org/publication/causes-o ... tagnation/
#14872441
You don't even live in the USA, so what you post on the subject is bullshit.


I nominate this as the stupidest thing said on POFO this year. Do I hear a second?
#14872444
Hindsite wrote:You don't even live in the USA, so what you post on the subject is bullshit.
Drlee wrote:I nominate this as the stupidest thing said on POFO this year. Do I hear a second?
I'll second that!

Decky wrote:Israel is responsible for 9/11.
Nice try, Decky. ;)
#14872445
Godstud wrote:You aren't even a sane individual so everything you post on this subject is bullshit. ;)

Gee, it sure is easy making stupid statements. I'm learning a lot from you! :lol:

You don't need to be intimidated by people who don't live in America, but are more educated than yourself about it. Should I ask you to kindly not talk about anything, since you are completely unqualified to comment on anything that requires rational thought? Is that what we do on these forums? :roll:

Is the new standard Conservative argument now, "You don't live here so you don't know!"? If so, it's rather childish. It's a lame attempt to stifle discussion.

The guy in the video is an economist, which is something you are not.

You apparently did not notice that I am Einstein again.

Professor Austan Goolsbee served on the three-member Council of Economic Advisers from the start of the Obama Administration. He advised President Obama during his 2004 U.S. Senate race and was senior economic policy adviser during the 2008 Obama Presidential Campaign.

The Obama administration economic plan doubled the national debt from $10 trillion to $20 trillion and gave us high unemployment and low economic growth that never even reached 2%. Already under the Trump administration the unemployment is lower and growth has reached over 3% by the slashing of regulations alone. This tax plan is expected to accelerate that growth to over 4%. So I don't think Austin Goolsbee is someone we should listen to about economics and business, since he never ran a business in his life. Trump has. Praise the Lord.
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