It is ultimately up to the Nations of the World to finally hold the United States to account - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14879256
There must ultimately be a realization that no serious introspective accounting is likely to be forth coming of the substantial and substantialable systemic circumstances leading to the abuses which are clear to the eye of the observer and which are offensive to most reasoned people's sense of moral decency, from within the United States.

Therefore, it is seemingly only an international effort on truth and reconciliation which might be achievable.

The list of American crimes against humanity is very long, and includes both American domestic and international affairs. The evidence is to be seen across a plurality of fields of relevance, and would be far too extraneous to seek to cover here. They include issues of systematic internal racism, the staggering prisoner population, injurious indifference of the poor, explicit war crimes, direct political interference in the sovereign affairs of other nations, among many others.

A true reconciliation must have binding conditions attached, which essentially means economic and other sanctions (legal, including on individuals, etc.). This is essentially ultimately the only peaceful available path to repairing the dysfunctional topsy-turvey nature of the America-Centric world political system, the overarching aim of which is to lead toward a more peaceful coexistence.

Moreover, it must be undertaken with a full understanding of the changes to power relations contained therein, and a recognition of this as the cost which must be paid.

Now more than ever before, the instability of the American political enterprise is having direct and marked effects on both the domestic and international affairs of other nations, with equal opportunity for both formal allies and traditional 'enemies' alike.

Ultimately, the Nations of the World are going to have to seriously hold the US to account for its serious abuses on the World Stage, and in the United States. This ultimately however is a choice which only they collectively can feasibly confront.
#14879259
Suntzu wrote:Fuck the nations of the world.

Let them come try and hold us accountable.

Time to kick the U.N. out of the U.S. Let it go to some enlightened country like Chad or Haiti.

Because you are apparently reading impaired, let me just re-clarify that I never suggested anything at all in the way of military confrontation.
#14879264
The USA is clearly no longer "the leader of the free world". It's a nation of selfish pricks who care only for their own well-being. The national principles and virtues are gone, or at least they a pale shadow of what they once were.

Trump is Nero, and instead of fiddling while Rome burns, Trump golfs while the USA does.
#14879267
Crantag wrote:There must ultimately be a realization that no serious introspective accounting is likely to be forth coming of the substantial and substantialable systemic circumstances leading to the abuses which are clear to the eye of the observer and which are offensive to most reasoned people's sense of moral decency, from within the United States.

Therefore, it is seemingly only an international effort on truth and reconciliation which might be achievable.

The list of American crimes against humanity is very long, and includes both American domestic and international affairs. The evidence is to be seen across a plurality of fields of relevance, and would be far too extraneous to seek to cover here. They include issues of systematic internal racism, the staggering prisoner population, injurious indifference of the poor, explicit war crimes, direct political interference in the sovereign affairs of other nations, among many others.

A true reconciliation must have binding conditions attached, which essentially means economic and other sanctions (legal, including on individuals, etc.). This is essentially ultimately the only peaceful available path to repairing the dysfunctional topsy-turvey nature of the America-Centric world political system, the overarching aim of which is to lead toward a more peaceful coexistence.

Moreover, it must be undertaken with a full understanding of the changes to power relations contained therein, and a recognition of this as the cost which must be paid.

Now more than ever before, the instability of the American political enterprise is having direct and marked effects on both the domestic and international affairs of other nations, with equal opportunity for both formal allies and traditional 'enemies' alike.

Ultimately, the Nations of the World are going to have to seriously hold the US to account for its serious abuses on the World Stage, and in the United States. This ultimately however is a choice which only they collectively can feasibly confront.



:O

Every single nation on earth has a long list of human rights violations. Nations do all sorts of stupid shit to each other.

Although, there is truth in the US being bad, etc. etc. Posts like this are kind of dumb. They sort of just gloss over history and geopolitics to the point that it's uninteresting. You can replace US/America with any other nation, and it will all be true.......... boring.
#14879269
Rancid wrote::O

Every single nation on earth has a long list of human rights violations. Nations do all sorts of stupid shit to each other.

Although, there is truth in the US being bad, etc. etc. Posts like this are kind of dumb. They sort of just gloss over history and geopolitics to the point that it's uninteresting. You can replace US/America with any other nation, and it will all be true.......... boring.


I fundamentally disagree with your assessment and characterizations.

An objective look at the US would show that the US is not merely on a par with respect to the specific examples which I mentioned, in addition to many others I did not mention.

On a personal note. I have recently nearly completed the first volume of Shelby Foote's history of the American Civil War. There are both direct parallels and direct causal linkages relevant to the politics of then and now; as well as to the American politics which had gone before. The American experience with respect to war, internally and externally, does not constitute a homeostatic norm of any remote kind, and those who suggest otherwise are those who transact in revisionist history.

That there are linkages to America's political past and its political present, which are directly relevant to all the points I have raised in this thread, is also something which I believe to be substantiable.

P.S., I'm glad my thread was stupid enough for you to be one of the first commenters.
#14879270
Once again, we are offered binary extremes. Either we police hte whole world or we isolate completely, apparently.

There are levels of maintaining healthy economic and even military alliances without policing everything, which should probably be done like regional alliances like the AU. Deal with the AU, let them solve their problems with support, but not direct intervention.
#14879272
My underlying basis is a feeling of inertia trending a particular way, and my desire to see things unfold as peacefully and with a minimization of destabilizing effects. This can only be achieved, accompanied by a strict moral adherence to the truth and to factual consideration. This includes full consideration of the attaining consequences to such actions in the way of measures of reconciliation themselves.

At the same time that I say these things, I also think the things that I suggest would be prevented from taking shape at all due to the pull of entrenched financial interests. It may thus become a struggle between these entrenched interests, and the will of the people of any given countries.
#14879399
foxdemon wrote:@Crantag Just for you.

https://thediplomat.com/2017/11/the-consequences-of-americas-unrestrained-foreign-policy/


Not a lot new there, but I generally agree.

To me realism is a very useful analytical tool, with very many implications for policy. I find cause for suspicion if actions are taken under the rubric of realism in situations where nuance might attain. But that wasn't the case in this article.
#14879400
There must ultimately be a realization that no serious introspective accounting is likely to be forth coming of the substantial and substantialable systemic circumstances leading to the abuses which are clear to the eye of the observer and which are offensive to most reasoned people's sense of moral decency, from within the United States.

Therefore, it is seemingly only an international effort on truth and reconciliation which might be achievable.

The list of American crimes against humanity is very long, and includes both American domestic and international affairs. The evidence is to be seen across a plurality of fields of relevance, and would be far too extraneous to seek to cover here. They include issues of systematic internal racism, the staggering prisoner population, injurious indifference of the poor, explicit war crimes, direct political interference in the sovereign affairs of other nations, among many others.

A true reconciliation must have binding conditions attached, which essentially means economic and other sanctions (legal, including on individuals, etc.). This is essentially ultimately the only peaceful available path to repairing the dysfunctional topsy-turvey nature of the America-Centric world political system, the overarching aim of which is to lead toward a more peaceful coexistence.

Moreover, it must be undertaken with a full understanding of the changes to power relations contained therein, and a recognition of this as the cost which must be paid.

Now more than ever before, the instability of the American political enterprise is having direct and marked effects on both the domestic and international affairs of other nations, with equal opportunity for both formal allies and traditional 'enemies' alike.

Ultimately, the Nations of the World are going to have to seriously hold the US to account for its serious abuses on the World Stage, and in the United States. This ultimately however is a choice which only they collectively can feasibly confront.

Image
#14879409
Crantag wrote:There are both direct parallels and direct causal linkages relevant to the politics of then and now; as well as to the American politics which had gone before.

In hindsight, it is always easy to see causal links in history; however, in reality these causes never had to result in what actually happened. There are hundreds of theories about how some elements in German history led to the Nazis (Wagner, Romanticism, Expressionism, Expressionist cinema, organic farming, Nietzsche, the back to the land movement, and, and, and). The fact is, however, that none of these elements had to lead to fascism. Hitler's power grab could have been avoided until the very last moment. The same applies to US history. Nothing in the civil war, etc., had to lead to a superpower gone rogue.

The germ of US imperialism lies in WWII. It's almost as if a virus had been passed from loser to victor. WWII victory gave the US the illusion of the "just war." The US was good and the others were bad. When Edward Tellers succeeded in testing the first hydrogen bomb, he said that it was lucky that the "good" side had gotten the bomb first and that American now had the means to impose eternal peace on the World. War would forever be banished from the planet, on condition that America always had at least twice the military power of the rest of the world together, which was feasible with a monopoly on the bomb.

Reality always makes havoc of the plans of these simpletons. First, the Soviets got then bomb and then others. And America lost its innocence in Iran, Vietnam, Chile, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan and many other places. However, the US is still holding on to the idea of maintaining a military several times the size of the next military power, and Trump is determined to increase the military budget while reducing healthcare, education and all other budgets despite his pretense of wanting to withdraw from international affairs.

The root of the problem is the logic of imperialism coupled with the greed of the US plutocracy. If the US were to give up the empire, its economy would collapse because corporate America depends on the State Department (and the Pentagon) to impose international conditions for sucking the World's wealth into Wall Street.

A talking shop like the UN or some sort of international forum for condemning US crimes are useless. On the other hand, Trump's unilateralism presents the world for the first time with the opportunity to come together in an equitable and mutually beneficial alliance on the basis of Realpolitik for promoting multilateral and fair trade, social justice and the fight against climate change. The multi-ethnic EU together with China, Russia and large parts of the emerging and developing economies has the opportunity to form a loose alliance that has the critical mass for opposing the US, despite all its military might.
#14879594
The recent UN vote on Jerusalem where the Us was on the losing side of a 128-9 vote was an excellent example of American arrogance as demonstrated by the comment made by the US representative Nikki Haley that she "would be taking names" ( :eek: that's a lot of names). This illustrates well America's serious problem of arrogance. I doubt this problem will ever subside; especially with a super arrogant POTUS on the job. America got it's ass kicked in Vietnam and the Bay of Pigs and no lesson was learned. What should happen, and is already happening, is a gradual slide into irrelevance as Trump builds his walls and diminishes respect for America worldwide. Things will even out over time. What goes around .... comes around.
#14879668
More threads like this please. :D

The Empire is bad, at home and obviously abroad. The savages running the show here don't even give its citizens healthcare and it has millions behind bars as an industry, rather than for the sake of justice.
#14879669
jimjam wrote:The recent UN vote on Jerusalem where the Us was on the losing side of a 128-9 vote was an excellent example of American arrogance as demonstrated by the comment made by the US representative Nikki Haley that she "would be taking names" ( :eek: that's a lot of names). This illustrates well America's serious problem of arrogance. I doubt this problem will ever subside; especially with a super arrogant POTUS on the job. America got it's ass kicked in Vietnam and the Bay of Pigs and no lesson was learned. What should happen, and is already happening, is a gradual slide into irrelevance as Trump builds his walls and diminishes respect for America worldwide. Things will even out over time. What goes around .... comes around.


It only proved that the U.N. is impotent. The U.S. embassy will move to Jerusalem and many other countries will follow suit or lose their foreign aid.
#14879679
Potemkin wrote:Image



They will be stopped by their own stupidity. En espanol...."En el pecado lleva la penitencia". "In the sin comes the penitence. They are so greedy, racist, and they hate history, they hate reflecting, they hate anyhthing that smacks of maturity and self control. Greed, and lack of self control. What is the penitence? What is the correct bad karma for Greed Potemkin? For lack of self control? Losing your money, and being disciplined and told what to do by other nations. All that shit they force on others of having to kiss ass and being poor and a shithole is their destiny.

I am not going to cry. Se lo merecen. They deserve a nice hard swift kick in the ass and out of the power position. Let all these USA chanters get told they are supposed to pay a lot of money to foreign banks forever and are stuck in their poverty because they did not put a check on the elite idiots who sold them a rotten bill of goods. I am not going to cry.

Don't cry for me Argentina...."I will not cry for you Gringolandia...the truth is I knew you were greedy and full of arrogance with a lack of intelligence, and through your wild days and your mad existence, I kept my promise, now keep your distance.....You suck so bad Gringolandia....the truth is you lied your ass off and promised shit, you did not deliver, all through your wars, and mad existence...." :D
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