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#14880901
BBC wrote:US shutdown begins as Senate fails to pass new budget

Media captionMinority Democrat Leader Chuck Schumer accuses President Trump of "rooting for a shutdown"
The US government has begun shutting down many of its services after the Senate failed to agree on a new budget.

A bill to fund the federal government until 16 February did not receive the required 60 votes amid a bitter dispute over immigration and border security.

It is the first shutdown ever to happen while the same party, the Republicans, controls Congress and the White House.

The impasse will affect hundreds of thousands of federal workers, and the recriminations have already begun.

President Donald Trump accused Democrats of putting politics above the interests of the American people.

Democrats are far more concerned with Illegal Immigrants than they are with our great Military or Safety at our dangerous Southern Border. They could have easily made a deal but decided to play Shutdown politics instead. #WeNeedMoreRepublicansIn18 in order to power through mess!

But the leading Senate Democrat, Chuck Schumer, blamed the president, saying Mr Trump had turned down two bipartisan compromise deals and "did not press his party in Congress".

The last government shutdown was in 2013, and lasted for 16 days.

What is a government shutdown?
As of 00:01 Saturday (05:01 GMT), many federal agencies are no longer open for business - although essential services will continue to run.

Most staff in the departments of housing, environment, education and commerce will stay at home. Half of workers in the treasury, health, defence and transportation departments will also not be going to work on Monday.

National parks and monuments could face closure, which provoked an angry public reaction during the 2013 shutdown.

Visa and passport processing could also be delayed.

But essential services that protect "life or human property" will continue, including national security, postal services, air traffic control, inpatient medical services, emergency outpatient medicine, disaster assistance, prisons, taxation and electricity generation.

The game of chicken ended with a head-on crash.

Republicans are anxious to label this the "Schumer shutdown" and, essentially, they're right. Chuck Schumer and his fellow Democrats (with the help of a few Republicans) blocked a bill that would have kept the government open - at least temporarily.

Determining responsibility and apportioning blame, however, are two decidedly different endeavours.

Democrats will argue that they had a deal with the president on their bipartisan compromise that included immigration reform - only to have him back away during that fateful obscenity-laden Oval Office meeting last week. Republicans will frame this as liberals putting undocumented immigrant protections over military readiness and health insurance for poor kids.

The blame game began at midnight, and the winner has yet to be decided. Generally, the loser in these types of showdowns is the party entering the fight with the lowest popularity - bad news for Mr Trump and the Republicans.

The good news, for both sides, is that their political bases will be thrilled they are playing hardball. Midterm election years, like 2018, tend to encourage this kind of rally-the-base manoeuvres.

Now that the line has been crossed, this could become a protracted, ugly fight.

Why can the two sides not agree?
The main bone of contention has been Democrats' demands for more than 700,000 undocumented immigrants who entered the US as children to be protected from deportation.

These "Dreamers", as they are known, were granted temporary legal status under a programme established by former President Barack Obama.

In September, Mr Trump announced he was ending the programme and allowing Congress until March to come up with a replacement.

The Republican president and congressional conservatives have been using the issue as a bargaining chip in an attempt to wring concessions from Democrats.

Mr Trump wants funding for tough new border controls, including his proposed US-Mexico wall.

Republicans added a sweetener to the bill in the form of a six-year extension to a health insurance programme for children in lower-income families.

But Democrats want this programme extended permanently.

The legislative negotiations went up in flames last week after Mr Trump allegedly complained the US was letting in immigrants from certain "shithole countries".

What happens now?
Despite blaming each other, both the Republican and Democratic leaders said they would continue to talk over the weekend.

Mick Mulvaney, the head of the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), said there was a "really good chance" it could be resolved before government offices open again on Monday.

But the White House took a tough line after the midnight deadline passed, tweeting that it would "not negotiate the status of unlawful immigrants while Democrats hold our lawful citizens hostage over their reckless demands".

However, with mid-term elections looming in November, neither party wishes to be held accountable for closing the government.

The shutdown began on the first anniversary of President Trump's inauguration. He has delayed a trip to his Florida resort where he is due to host a party - with attendees paying as much as $250,000 (£180,000; €204,500) - to mark the event.

What happened during the 2013 shutdown?
Many federal employees were forced to take a leave of absence - officially known as being furloughed - during the 16 days of shutdown.

At its peak, some 850,000 employees were off work each day. It cost the government $2bn in lost productivity and led to "significant negative effects on the economy", the OMB said at the time.

Donald Trump, interviewed by Fox and Friends at the time, laid the blame for the shutdown with the then president, Barack Obama.

"The problems start from the top and have to get solved from the top," he said. "The president is the leader, and he's got to get everybody in a room and he's got to lead."

BBC
#14880904
Things might maybe go better without the government.

When I was a kid there was a doctor's strike in my home country.
Everybody feared that many people would die,
So after a week or two they looked at mortality and found that less people had died since the strike began.
Some doctor came on television to explain that less surgeries were performed and therefore less people died.
Nobody believed him.
#14880913
ness31 wrote:Why hasn’t a thread been started on this already? I’d have thought it was kind of important http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42757091



We’ve been through it before and most vital services continue uninterrupted. If this continues for 8 weeks or so, that will be a problem. DHS (and the guys who screen airport travelers) is down to 78% staffing or something like that according to Yahoo.com news. Eight weeks puts us in the middle of Spring Break. When the lines at security are 3-5 times as long, that missing 22% will be felt.
#14880916
Has it been shutdown, or has it only began to shutdown, or is it just that it may shutdown?
I am finding this a little confusing.

Also, why cant the Republicans govern when they have a majority in both chambers of Congress and they have the Presidency? Are they really this incompetent or is this a normal thing to happen?
#14880922
The Republicans didn’t do it to Obama, even though they threatened to. I think this makes the Dems look like assholes. Trump won’t be blackmailed. End of story.
#14880923
This is a common occurrence in shit-hole 3rd world countries. Why are people surprised it happened to the USA? :lol:

Stop pretending like it isn't Dolt 45's fault. :moron:
Last edited by Godstud on 20 Jan 2018 12:56, edited 1 time in total.
#14880924
ness31 wrote:The Republicans didn’t do it to Obama, even though they threatened to. I think this makes the Dems look like assholes. Trump won’t be blackmailed. End of story.


1. The Republicans did do it in 2013 under Obama (Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_ ... wn_of_2013 )?

2. The Republicans have a majority both in the House and Senate. So blame the Republicans first for not being able to convince their own Senators to support their own President.
#14880926
BeheadTheFrog wrote:1. The Republicans did do it in 2013 under Obama (Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_ ... wn_of_2013 )?

2. The Republicans have a majority both in the House and Senate. So blame the Republicans first for not being able to convince their own Senators to support their own President.



Haha I knew as soon as I wrote that I was wrong :lol: Who the fuck remembers stuff from 2013 :lol:

Still, I don’t see this episode as reflecting poorly on Trump. It looks like the Dems are trying to blackmail him on immigration. As for the horse trading that happens amongst senators from both sides, who knows what’s going on there..

Edit -I’m just searching for some coherent comparisons between the shut downs from both sides. I found this https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/19/governm ... erent.html but it’s a bit one sided..
#14880933
ness31 wrote: between the shut downs from both sides.


There is no ‘both sides’. The Republicans shut down the government both times. If the Republicans are in charge of the Senate and the Senate refuses to fund the government then it is the Republicans who shut the government down. They have the power not the Democrats.

Who are these Republican Senators who wont support their own leaders in the Senate? Who are these Republican Senators who wont support their own President?
What a shambles! An embarassment!
#14880935
maybe there are a few closet Dems in the Republican ranks ;) I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as you make out BTF. There’s clearly some conflicts of interest somewhere and POTUS has pulled rank. Isn’t that what everyone wants? Strong leadership. I’m a fan, gotta say..
#14880937
ness31 wrote:maybe there are a few closet Dems in the Republican ranks ;) I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as you make out BTF. There’s clearly some conflicts of interest somewhere and POTUS has pulled rank. Isn’t that what everyone wants? Strong leadership. I’m a fan, gotta say..


The President cant even urge his own Senators to fund their own government. This is an inescapable fact which you seem unable to bring yourself to acknowledge.
#14880938
This is pathetic. Republicans have control of House and Senate, yet the party is divided and they couldn't get the needed amount of votes to keep the government up and running. Something must be wrong. I blame the poor poor leadership of Trump and Co.

Why can't the Dreamer program be extended, health insurance for kids be extended and just forget about the butt ugly wall?! Problem solved.
#14880940
BeheadTheFrog wrote:The President cant even urge his own Senators to fund their own government. This is an inescapable fact which you seem unable to bring yourself to acknowledge.


I don’t find it hard to believe that members of a political party might be compromised to the point of hindering their ability to support their leader, no. Indeed, that is an inescapable fact :)
#14880942
ness31 wrote:I don’t find it hard to believe that members of a political party might be compromised to the point of hindering their ability to support their leader, no. Indeed, that is an inescapable fact :)


Then stop blaming the Democrats and start blaming the corrupt Republicans as you see it.
#14880944
:lol: Please. This is a stunt from the Dems and it’s very obvious.
#14880946
At the end of the day problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top and the President is the leader.

100 years from now, when they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about who the President was at that time. They’re not going to be talking about who was the head of the House, the head the Senate or who is running things in Washington.
I really think the pressure is on the President. He’s got to get everybody in a room and he’s got to lead.

In this situation if you say who gets fired it always has to be the top. End of.
#14880947
Can’t impeach him, can’t prove he isn’t compos mentis...what next? I know, a government shutdown! :lol:
#14880961
Yahoo News wrote:There had been modest hope on Friday when Democratic Senate Leader Chuck Schumer went to the White House to talk with Trump. One person familiar with the events said the two men agreed to seek a grand deal in which Democrats would win protections from deportation for some 700,000 young undocumented immigrants known as "Dreamers" and Trump would get more money for a border wall and tighter security to stem illegal immigration from Mexico.

By early evening, however, that plan was dead. The source said Trump had spoken with conservative Republicans and been hit with their objections to the deal with Schumer.

Last week, Trump rejected a bipartisan Senate deal that would have protected the Dreamers as well as hand the White House $2.7 billion in new money for immigration enforcement at America's borders.

In a statement issued minutes before Friday's midnight deadline for a funding deal, Trump's White House said: "We will not negotiate the status of unlawful immigrants while Democrats hold our lawful citizens hostage over their reckless demands."

The shutdown was cemented when the Senate, meeting late into Friday night, blocked a bill to maintain the federal government's funding through Feb. 16.

The vote was 50-49, well short of the 60 needed in the 100-member chamber to vault the bill over a procedural hurdle.

Four Republicans joined most Democrats in killing the measure. A fifth Republican, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, voted "no" too, but only as part of a parliamentary maneuver to make it easier to bring another bill to the floor.

This shutdown could have been avoided, but Trump changed his mind it seems.
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