[Suntzu]

How about limiting the magazine/clip size to 8 rounds and outlawing the sale/manufacture/possession of any magazines/clips that hold a greater capacity?

AR-15 magazines also fit M16/M4. There are literally millions of 30 round magazines out there and there will be a continuing supply from the military. Magazines are an expendable item like mops and brooms.

[Rich]

I think it is corrupt political culture and bad values. That is going to be a tough one to change.

People in the USA who are into conservative politics and guns I need them because I hate the government? And the gun and military defense industry. Too powerful.

Trump is a total sellout to the second amendment people with guns are sacred.

It is a bad formula for change.

Peurto Rico has a homocide rate over three times the United States. The top three countries in the world for homicide are all in Latin America. Immigration from Latin America is a major factor in pushing up the US murder rates.

Citizens use guns defensively a hundred thousand times a year. That doesn't mean they're always fired to be effective in saving life property, health and stopping rape. Citizens guns stop and prevent a huge amount of crime in the United States. overall the US's liberal gun laws save the lives of law abiding citizenry.

[Suntzu]

Peurto Rico has a homocide rate over three times the United States. The top three countries in the world for homicide are all in Latin America. Immigration from Latin America is a major factor in pushing up the US murder rates.

Citizens use guns defensively a hundred thousand times a year. That doesn't mean they're always fired to be effective in saving life property, health and stopping rape. Citizens guns stop and prevent a huge amount of crime in the United States. overall the US's liberal gun laws save the lives of law abiding citizenry.

About half of the murders in the U.S. are Black on Black violence, mostly with handguns.

[4cal]

AR-15 magazines also fit M16/M4. There are literally millions of 30 round magazines out there

At one point, I am sure there were millions of calculator watches, walkmen, and beta VCRs out there too. Today, they are hard to find. When you stop manufacturing them, the supply eventually dries up.

and there will be a continuing supply from the military.

If they are illegal, there will be no supply coming from the military.

Magazines are an expendable item like mops and brooms.

That is true.

What is not true is that the responsible gun owner who has a collection of weapons and is law abiding and all of that is going to have illegal weaponry on hand. Meaning that if their kid happens to snap one day or if someone gets access to their arsenal and decides that they want to go shooting folks, they will have to do it with an over the counter magazine.

[Suntzu]

If you think folks will turn in high capacity magazines if they are made illegal you are on drugs. There will be a continuing supply of any commodity for which there is a demand.

[Drlee]

If you think folks will turn in high capacity magazines if they are made illegal you are on drugs. There will be a continuing supply of any commodity for which there is a demand

That is not the point. The point is that if they are caught with them they will be arrested. Same with concealed weapons without a hard-to-get license.

I am appalled at how stupid someone would have to be to advocate arming teachers.

[Suntzu]

You mean one of those hard to get licenses that all my family member have? Several of the local school districts already have armed teachers. Not a single one of them has shot a student nor have the schools been shot up.

[Godstud]

Unless those teachers are highly trained with firearms, they could end up being a bigger threat. I don't see this being reasonably enforced, or employed. How many teachers will want to take extensive training for this? Who is paying for it?

As for gun control...
Why does anyone with a rifle need more than a 5 round magazine? If you need even 5 rounds to hunt with, you're a shit hunter, and should probably stick to shopping. Bolt action or pump action rifles, only.

Semiautomatic rifles? Why? These are usually military weapons, Total ban.

I am for controlling firearms and limiting home defense guns to pistols of 9 mm and .38. You don't want bullets going thru walls when defending your loved ones, and those are more than sufficient for home defense needs.

[Suntzu]

Unless those teachers are highly trained with firearms, they could end up being a bigger threat. I don't see this being reasonably enforced, or employed. How many teachers will want to take extensive training for this? Who is paying for it?

As for gun control...
Why does anyone with a rifle need more than a 5 round magazine? If you need even 5 rounds to hunt with, you're a shit hunter, and should probably stick to shopping. Bolt action or pump action rifles, only.

Semiautomatic rifles? Why? These are usually military weapons, Total ban.

I am for controlling firearms and limiting home defense guns to pistols of 9 mm and .38. You don't want bullets going thru walls when defending your loved ones, and those are more than sufficient for home defense needs.

Pure ignorance. You might want to read the Federalist Papers.

[Godstud]

Oh I am ignorant because I don't agree with you? Toss off.

[Zagadka]

Where do the Federalist Papers discuss semi-auto clip sizes or arming teachers?

[Suntzu]

The 2nd Amendment was designed to protect the type of arms carried by members of the militia, i.e. the type of weapons carried by ordinary soldiers. Today that would be an M16/M4.

[jimjam]

"It’s interesting that so many of these people that commit the mass murders end up being Democrats."
Claudia Tenney, Republican Congresswoman from New York brings Republican "leadership" to a new all time low. Yep, you heard it here folks. Mass murderers are Democrats.......

[Godstud]

The 2nd Amendment was designed to protect the type of arms carried by members of the militia

Prove it. Show me a source.

Being armed does not mean you should, or even need to be armed as the military is. By your argument/flawed reasoning, people should have grenade launchers, and artillery.

[Drlee]

The 2nd Amendment was designed to protect the type of arms carried by members of the militia, i.e. the type of weapons carried by ordinary soldiers. Today that would be an M16/M4.

Nonsense. Just nonsense.

You really have no idea. Pathetic.

To go further though. Jefferson was the first to say that the consititution ought to be amended now and then. He was adamant about it. We outlawed slavery because it was stupid. We limited the private ownership of machine guns and certain other weapons. The argument that we cannot outlaw assault weapons is stupid in the face of a SCOTUS ruling that California and other states can do precisely that.


I see the Russian trolls are out on this thread again.

[Suntzu]

Grenade launchers, maybe. Artillery, no. This issue was broached at the time, the question being, "Does the 2nd Amendment protect the right to own a canon. The answer was, "No, a canon is a crew served weapon, not the sort of weapons carried by an ordinary soldier.

Don't like the 2nd Amendment, repeal it . . . if you can!

[Zagadka]

And the Constitution is horribly, horribly outdated. Especially if you discount the amendments, which make the argument "it was in the Constitution" and view it as a living document completely irrelevant.

Specifically, the role of armed militia as written around 1800 is rubbish now. Unless you want to disband most of the military forces. It is purely disingenuous to try to apply the mindset then to reality now.


EDIT

The entire "it was that way" argument is just lazy and stupid. What matters is what works now.

[Hindsite]

I am for controlling firearms and limiting home defense guns to pistols of 9 mm and .38. You don't want bullets going thru walls when defending your loved ones, and those are more than sufficient for home defense needs.

I believe I heard on the news that the round the M-15 the kid had used a .221 bullet, which is smaller than the .38 and the 9 mm.

The whip-hand dominance of the .223 Rem. has littered the boneyard with nearly all other 22-cal. center-fire cartridges; however, the .221 Rem. Fireball remains just outside that acre’s gate because informed handloaders look at it from a different perspective than those who see it as merely a short .223. Besides, you have to like a cartridge with a cool-sounding name such as “Fireball.”

The .221 case is a close copy of the .223. Both cases have the same head diameter, shoulder angle, neck length and maximum average pressure (MAP) of 55,000 p.s.i. The only difference is that the .221 is shortened 0.3674 inches in the body. That reduces its propellant capacity to 60 percent of the .223s. But loaded with the proper propellants, the .221 produces about 90 percent of the .223’s velocity with bullets weighing up to 55 grains.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articl ... ball-fits/

[Drlee]

I believe I heard on the news that the round the M-15 the kid had used a .221 diameter bullet, which is smaller than the .38 and the 9 mm.

Are you sure you were a soldier? First of all he used an AR-15. The military rifle similar to it is the M-16. The AR-15 is chambered for .223 cal ammunition. The M-16 is chambered for 5.56mm X 45 NATO. Though you can fire the NATO round in the AR-15 it may cause serious problems and even blow up the rifle. People do it though. Probably few people actually know this. Even AR owners. (There are a few ARs modified for 5.56 but their accuracy suffers. Long story.

Your comment comparing a rifle round to a pistol round is either uninformed or deliberately deceptive. Actually any of these rounds will go through the interior walls of most houses.

Specifically, the role of armed militia as written around 1800 is rubbish now. Unless you want to disband most of the military forces. It is purely disingenuous to try to apply the mindset then to reality now.

Truth.

[Stormsmith]

Yes, that would be a useful beginning. I think Wellsy poitned out that guns are a necessary condition, but not necessarily a cause of these kinds of shootings. My friends and family in the US, for example, have just as much access to guns as Cruz, and are also Latino, but are not about to go and do this kind of stuff.

So it makes me wonder what does make someone do this, and how we can address that instead of easily circumvented gun laws.

I found one that you might have liked earlier this week, but I can't find it now. Everything in it seemed to be on target re Cruz eg, animal and family violence, destructive behaviour, having been ostracised, humilation, etc. I'll look again later on. But it occurred to me that his case was like 9/11 in that there had been reports made to several levels of police, but little information was shared by multiple agencies. 9/11 was such a mess that the government made a point of getting good agencies to discuss these isssues, and cross reference vital information. Seems to have worked. It seems to me if a central agency could be developed and staffed by experts dedicated to domestic mass shootings and potential shooters, it might be possible to prevent shooters from buying / using guns without having to worry about arresting him/her.