[colliric]

Good article.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/05/styl ... ships.html

Note the third last paragraph...

"Ms. Gallop, who is 57, said that younger men are able to match her energy levels better than men her age."

Younger men are in fact better in bed and percieved as such. It's logic, they have higher energy levels. Her opinion is correct.

Older men may know more positions, be more "experienced", but younger guys make up for the lack of experience with the fact they likely can "go all night" and are percieved as such.

Her opinion is standard.

[Truth To Power]

I don't know if I ever buy into the whole biological sex/pregnancy thing. Many women don't want kids, why would they care for someone that has active sperm or not?

Same for a man. I think an older dude likes younger women, cause it's just interesting, fun, different to date someone out of your age range.

Come off it. It's Darwin, nothing else.

[Rancid]

Come off it. It's Darwin, nothing else.

Pretty sure Darwin didn't say a whole lot on this.

My greater point which I did a bad job of sharing is this:
Our social structures have been changed massively since we were cavemen. The technology we've created has completely shifted the way we make decisions in our daily lives. I think we too often discount the power of the environment we've creatd for ourselves in matters like this. I think we can easily override our so called biological tendencies when it comes to how we select mates. Just as much as we can override our inate tribalism, we can overrise how we choose mates. I don't think it's far fetched to believe that courgars pick young guys, not because they can sire children, but just because they might be a fun ride. Same for older men selcting younger women.

[colliric]

It's easy to see that it's a strong factor.

Weather or not it is the defining factor is up for debate. But it's always in there somewhere. Even for older men going out with younger women.

[MistyTiger]

You mean, you can see the difference between Hong Wu and Potemkin

Of course!

Also, younger men and women tend to be more reckless with their money. Experience teaches people to make wiser financial and life decisions, in my opinion.

[colliric]

But that experience comes from making mistakes when you are young and learning from those mistakes when you are young.

To hold inexperience against young men, instead of helping them learn along the way, is selfish. This is why today's society is generally considered the most selfish in all of history.

Selfish to go only for people older and more experienced than yourself. You are basically holding your male age group peers to a higher standard than yourself. You are going for an older man partly as an admittance that you are inexperienced also yourself. It is hypocracy. You are looking for a father figure in your relationship, instead of looking for a man who will grow with you.

Some will never get to learn from experience because they are overlooked by women their age. Some will even take their own life because of it.

[Drlee]

Selfish to go only for people older and more experienced than yourself. You are basically holding your male age group peers to a higher standard than yourself. You are going for an older man partly as an admittance that you are inexperienced also yourself. It is hypocracy. You are looking for a father figure in your relationship, instead of looking for a man who will grow with you.

What? We are not talking about grading on a curve. This is about love and sexual attraction. No woman has any responsibility to "train" young lovers. The very idea is preposterous.

Look world. There is one time in your life that you get to be completely selfish. That is in your selection of lovers. If a woman is out to "get laid" she usually has no problem doing that with whatever general group she wants. My seven decades of experience tells me that this is not that big a deal.

As much as we want to be all modern and shit the real deal is that dating is about mating. Pair bonding. Marriage in most cases. That is where this is going. Telling a woman she should feel pity for a young man and fuck him to maturity is absurd and frankly pretty needy.

As I got older I found that younger women were more attracted to me. Why? Because I didn't turn the stereo up when they got in the car? Because I smell good? Have money? Confidence? Because I was not frantically trying to get laid at the earliest possible moment? Or was it because I actually was experienced enough with women in general to not be scared shitless of them? That is the real deal. And do you know what happens when a young man gets over his abject terror of women? (And trust me. They all are terrified whether they know it or not.) When he gets over his fear he actually listens to women. What a concept! A man asks a woman a question, actually waits for the answer and listens to it. Then they have this thing called a "conversation". Young men don't do that with women. They talk at women a lot but they suck at listening. And here is the revelation. If you actually listen to women, share with them, learn to see things from their perspective and add that perspective to your own do you know what happens then? You come to like them. I am not talking about loving on them. I am not even talking about loving one or more of them. I am talking about liking them as individuals and equals. And young men, when you learn to respect, value, and honestly see women not only as your equals, but as your friends....you will be irresistible. Not to all women. Maybe not even to most women. But to the ones that matter you will have a good chance of being the one.

Young men see women as the keepers of the keys to the kingdom. They don't see women as just as nervous and apprehensive as they are. Hell. Most guys can't even admit to themselves that they are scared. They see women as conquests. When women perceive that this is the nature of the relationship...conqueror/conquest...they play to win and almost always do. All it takes for them to win is one word.....no. But this adversarial relationship does not lead women to be more confident. Just the opposite. It makes them even more suspicious. Older men know this and are fine with it. They expect women to be apprehensive and have patience. They know that what is true for them is probably true for the woman too.

Young men are not better lovers. Sex is not a sport. Women love with their brains as well as their bodies. While men are looking for any port in a hormone storm women are far more involved in sex than that. 'Christopher' can be a sexual athlete marathon fucker but if he starts the race before the bell goes off he is going nowhere. And young men do that all of the time. Get to first base...second base....steal third....... your out.

There is a story about an old bull and a young bull standing on a hill. Below them in the valley is a herd of cows. The young bull excitedly says to the old bull, "let's run down there and get us one". To which the old bull answers, "no son. Let's walk down there and get them all.

Relationships are complicated things. Young people don't do complicated relationships very well. There is no shame in this. Complicated takes time and experience. Older men know that they have both.

One last thought. It must be said that there are plenty of 30-40-50 year old boys. You can't assume that old = mature. But it frequently does.

Here is a verse from a song:

"How to handle a woman?
There's a way," said the wise old man,
"A way known by ev'ry woman
Since the whole rigmarole began."
"Do I flatter her?" I begged him answer.
"Do I threaten or cajole or plead?
Do I brood or play the gay romancer?"
Said he, smiling: "No indeed.
How to handle a woman?
Mark me well, I will tell you, sir:
The way to handle a woman
Is to love her...simply love her...
Merely love her...love her...love her."

[colliric]

Dr Lee I doubt you have known many young men that have committed suicide from despare. You might have, but I doubt you have. And if you have, I doubt you knew the reasons why they died.

I've known quite a few young men that committed suicide and I've bothered to figure out why.

It's changed my position considerably.

[Paddy14]

Lol, thanks for all those really interesting (and complicated) replies.

TBH, I'm not that good with girls, and cos I go to an all-boys private school, I don't get to meet that many girls. So all that was really good info. I'm not one of those cool dudes (I guess I'm a bit of a nerd,) who can chat up chicks naturally, and I get easily destroyed by girls who use put-downs instead of just saying 'no thanks' when I ask them if they would like to go for a Maccas (I only get a small allowance so I can't take them to posh places).

People tell me that I'm not that bad looking, and I'm clean and reasonably tidy (no dred-locks or long hair) and I don't dress weird, and I always try to be very polite with everyone. I usually fancy girls a few years older than me, cos the chicks my age talk about really silly things, and just can't be serious about stuff. But I don't hit on them, and I'm not yet into all that marriage and children stuff.

Neway, just thought I'd explain why I asked.

[Stormsmith]

There is a story about an old bull and a young bull standing on a hill. Below them in the valley is a herd of cows. The young bull excitedly says to the old bull, "let's run down there and get us one". To which the old bull answers, "no son. Let's walk down there and get them all.

"

There's a song containing this sentiment "Old Age and Treachery (always overcome youth and skill) - Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson. Country to Camelot. Good stuff.

[colliric]

"

There's a song containing this sentiment "Old Age and Treachery (always overcome youth and skill) - Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson. Country to Camelot. Good stuff.

David beat Goliath.... Goliath was older, taller and far more experienced... David beat him.

He beat him with courage, youth and energy.... And even a little young "I'll keep coming at him no matter what, I'll never give up trying" stupidity.

Old age and Treachery failed to beat Youthful "I can do anything, even with this Bart Simpson slingshot on a fluke!" Stupidity, Skill(greatest fluke ever) and Courage.

Examples going both ways guys. Just sayin'

[colliric]

Double post.

[Godstud]

David beat Goliath, because it was a story, and in the script. David beat Goliath because Goliath was over-confident. It's a cautionary tale about underestimating your opponent, and has nothing to do with energy or any of that other shit.

Drlee is spot on. I am with a significantly younger woman, whom I've been married to for over 5 years now, because of the very things he mentions. I wasn't in a rush to jump into her pants. I listened. I found out what her dreams were. I am spending my life making her happy, and in return, she makes me happy. I was willing to take responsibility for a step son, whom I call my own, now. The list goes on...

When I was in my 20s, or even 30s, I wasn't mature enough to really find that special person, even if I did come close. I was afraid of things that no longer frighten me now. I lacked confidence, and even the semblance of wisdom. I did my stupid stuff.

That said, women want confident men, who treat them well, who want to help them achieve their dreams/goals, and to make them a better person.

Note: As for energy, I've always had that in over-abundance, so my endurance and energy levels at 50 are barely diminished. Courage? That's self-confidence.

[Igor Antunov]

That said, women want confident men, who treat them well, who want to help them achieve their dreams/goals, and to make them a better person.

Translation for the less romantically inclined; women want assertive men, who treat them well, who are capable of supporting them and their offspring, who can prop them up the social ladder.

Women typically marry up. To marry up you need a man that's established and career networked/stable. This tends to be older men.

[Rich]

To hold inexperience against young men, instead of helping them learn along the way, is selfish. This is why today's society is generally considered the most selfish in all of history.

Really all of history? Spartan society was a bit on the selfish side don't you think?

[anarchist23]

How much older? Five, ten, twenty years older?
Older men, in the main, are more trustworthy, more respectful, less flippant than young men.
Falling in love overrides any age difference anyway.

[colliric]

Translation for the less romantically inclined; women want assertive men, who treat them well, who are capable of supporting them and their offspring, who can prop them up the social ladder.

Women typically marry up. To marry up you need a man that's established and career networked/stable. This tends to be older men.

This is only young women.

Single Women entering Menopause (as in at the very start in the late thirties) tend to go for younger men, not older ones. The situation reverses itself.

It weird but it clearly frequently happens.

Happened to Hugh Jackman....

[Godstud]

She was only 13 years his senior when he met her. That's nothing. 21 years married, now. Good on him.

[Rich]

This is why today's society is generally considered the most selfish in all of history.

And what about the Aztec's, they weren't completely altruistic were they? Or was that all White supremacist propaganda?

[Drlee]

Dr Lee I doubt you have known many young men that have committed suicide from despare. You might have, but I doubt you have. And if you have, I doubt you knew the reasons why they died.

I've known quite a few young men that committed suicide and I've bothered to figure out why.

It's changed my position considerably.

So your notion is that women should fuck unstable young men so they don't kill themselves.