Trump and Russiagate - Page 96 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties in the USA and Canada.

Moderator: PoFo North America Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#14890699
Stormsmith wrote:Mueller is picking the low hanging fruit, attempting to get them to "flip" or plead guilty in exchange for light sentences if they tell all of what they know on Trump et al.

Low hanging fruit? Non of these cases even relate to Russian interference, except for this last series of Russian flunkies the media was championing when they were engaged in anti-Trump protests.

Stormsmith wrote:Some of Trump's more die-hard supporters are assuming since Mueller hasn't charged Trump there isn't anything to charge him, full stop.

Trump was the nominee for six months. Mueller has had more than 8 months to investigate this. If he hasn't come up with anything yet, in all likelihood there is no case.

Stormsmith wrote:Muellers going to have to ensure everyone got everything that was sent to them, determine if the "deletes" were space saving vs hiding etc and the relevance if each and every one, (a daunting task, considering Don Jr's will be intermixed with the Trump empires regular business affairs), and do the same for phone recordings, notes etc, then interview the suspects. Repeatedly.

Except that none of it matters, since collusion itself is not a crime. The only things they could get Trump on is soliciting money from them, or suborning the Russians to hack Hillary, the DNC or John Podesta. Those would be criminal acts. Nothing else alleged is criminal. Even going pee pee on a bed Obama slept in is not a criminal offense.

Stormsmith wrote:Some of Trump's die-hard supporters believe this is hooey.

Interesting choice of words. "Hooey" as you spelled it is Russian slang for "dick." Russian is an appropriate language to describe the current situation. Is Mueller going to eat Trump alive? I'd say, "zxooey, ne zxooey, serevno paloochesh hooey." Maybe Igor can provide a better cyrillic version, which basically translates to "Eat, don't eat. Either way you get dick."
User avatar
By jimjam
#14890777
blackjack21 wrote: in all likelihood there is no case


In all likelihood Mueller is neither playing according to your rules nor sharing his investigation with Fox Fake News.
User avatar
By colliric
#14890788
jimjam wrote:In all likelihood Mueller is neither playing according to your rules nor sharing his investigation with Fox Fake News.


Nor does he appear to be on your team and MSNBC's team either....

Otherwise would have asked Trump for an interview by now.
User avatar
By 4cal
#14890793
[quote=“blackjack21”]

Except that none of it matters, since collusion itself is not a crime. The only things they could get Trump on is soliciting money from them, or suborning the Russians to hack Hillary, the DNC or John Podesta. Those would be criminal acts. Nothing else alleged is criminal. Even going pee pee on a bed Obama slept in is not a criminal offense.
[/quote]
Since Stone admitted he knew Podesta was going to be hacked, Mueller has a pretty easy job. I’m sure he’s just being the thorough professional that he is known for being despite the smear campaign.

Trump’s multiple scandals are being all investigated. One cannot blame the investigators for not proceeding rapidly through such a target-rich environment. Trump is the sleaziest piece of shit to ever ascend to the Presidency in our lifetimes—we all know that. It will take a while to figure out just how dirty he is.
User avatar
By 4cal
#14890795
colliric wrote:Nor does he appear to be on your team and MSNBC's team either....

Otherwise would have asked Trump for an interview by now.


It is 100% likely that Trump will never go under oath. As soon as he commits perjury, it’s all over and we all know he cannot tell the truth for 5 seconds.

Beyond that, the only chance Mueller may have is 1 interview….there is zero chance that he gets 2 bites at that apple. Obviously, being the consummate professional that he is, he is cross-checking and verifying the information before he sits down with the pervert.

The oldest (and truest) adage in cross examination is to never ask a question to which you do not already know the answer. When Mueller gets to where Trump has to admit the crime or purger himself (if he gets there)…he’ll be subpoenaing the pervert.

I hope he uses Purell on the witness stand after the sleaze ball leaves….
User avatar
By colliric
#14890813
4cal wrote:The oldest (and truest) adage in cross examination is to never ask a question to which you do not already know the answer. When Mueller gets to where Trump has to admit the crime or purger himself (if he gets there)…he’ll be subpoenaing the pervert.….


Sometimes you have to. The prosecution in the OJ Simpson trial took that risk on the glove and lost out. Meanwhile his own team did the same thing unintentionally with Detective Furhman and it payed off. Because the man was an idiot and took the fifth when he should have just fucken answered the "do you plant evidence" question the way they were hoping he actually would. They asked it hoping he would say no(so they could try and attack him with "yes you did, OJ is the victim") instead he shocked then with a Christmas Present, took the fifth and basically told the Jury he "possibly" had.

It's the legal equilivent of a Hail Mary pass. Sometimes it does work(though usually not by intention).

@Igor Antunov

Mark Dice's video footage of that in the SJW thread.... It was fucken hilarious. CNN doing "A Current Affair" style turn up on their driveway and harrass the person reporting... Lol.

Full Raw Video:


No doubt they get alot of their "talent" from the American version. This guy obviously forgot he changed over to High-Brow reporting... Love it!

User avatar
By 4cal
#14890817
[quote=“colliric”]
Sometimes you have to.
[/quote]
No, you really do not.

[quote=“colliric"]
The prosecution in the OJ Simpson trial took that risk on the glove and lost out. Meanwhile his own team did the same thing unintentionally with Detective Furhman and it payed off. Because the man was an idiot and took the fifth when he should have just fucken answered the "do you plant evidence" question the way they were hoping he actually would. They asked it hoping he would say no(so they could try and attack him with "yes you did, OJ is the victim") instead he shocked then with a Christmas Present, took the fifth and basically told the Jury he "possibly" had.

It's the legal equilivent of a Hail Mary pass. Sometimes it does work(though usually not by intention).
[/quote]
Once a trial starts, you are in the moment. Mueller is still doing the investigating so he is under no time constraints. Taking the fifth is “no answer” meaning that you either have to answer it or you have to commit perjury. We allow you to take the fifth which legally is “no answer” however, in the jury’s mind and in the mind of the public…as you pointed out, you leave the possibility open that you did.

Mueller has empaneled a grand jury. Trump will not have the option of taking the fifth.

Also, his being the President of the US, he’s not going anywhere; there is absolutely no reason for Mueller to rush the investigation since the target is constitutionally bound to be present for the next 3 years.
User avatar
By colliric
#14890824
When OJ's lawyers threw that long pass up it unexpectedly hit another target and turned into a successful Hail Mary pass.

I still think that's the almost only reason he got off.

Prosecution fucked that play up the most(and in the recent miniseries they dramatized the moment they realised the case was screwed very well). OJ's lawyers were preparing to counter the obvious answer "No" and didn't expect this at all. In fact they were indeed very shocked.

Sorry to get sidetracked but I was fascinated by it.
User avatar
By jimjam
#14890828
colliric wrote:Nor does he appear to be on your team and MSNBC's team either....

Otherwise would have asked Trump for an interview by now.


I am not a team player. Never have been and never will. Maybe that's why I have been a long distance runner for decades. I prefer to reach my own conclusions, not those of the "team".

Timing for "interviewing"? I would imagine that is Mueller's call, not yours.

However, it looks as Donald will get a pass if called upon for a grilling by Mueller. A "doctor's note" similar to the one he used to dodge the draft could give Donald a get out of jail card. Dr. Ronny Jackson, the official White House doctor, was quoted as saying, “The strain of being under oath and giving truthful answers could kill him.”

I love it! I simply love it! If Donald actually told the truth he may drop dead..... :lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar
By colliric
#14890837
jimjam wrote:I love it! I simply love it! If Donald actually told the truth he may drop dead..... :lol: :lol: :lol:


He's above 70, he's not 35. Doctor is naturally concerned about him being under undue pressure.

So it's a valid concern, not one to be laughed at. He's no spring chicken. Hillary is in much worse health, she constantly gets colds and whatnot.
User avatar
By Hong Wu
#14890893
The other day I had a deep think. "If liberals are as crazy as I think they are, it should be easy to deflect them onto some crazy route and away from making real arguments..." then I was like oh, that's muh Russia.
#14890931
jimjam wrote:In all likelihood Mueller is neither playing according to your rules nor sharing his investigation with Fox Fake News.

In all likelihood he's billing the US Treasury $500 per hour or more and wants to take as long as humanly possible, while entertaining Trump detractors that he's on to something big. So far, I've been nonplussed.

4cal wrote:Since Stone admitted he knew Podesta was going to be hacked, Mueller has a pretty easy job.

(you need to use straight, not curly, quotes for your markup to render properly) If that's the case, why hasn't he done this easy job in 8+ months?

4cal wrote:One cannot blame the investigators for not proceeding rapidly through such a target-rich environment.

So far, nobody from Trump's campagaign has been charged with anything having to do with Russia.

4cal wrote:Trump is the sleaziest piece of shit to ever ascend to the Presidency in our lifetimes—we all know that.

I'm sure a lot of people would disagree with that. Lyndon Johnson and Bill Clinton come to mind. A lot of people felt that way about Nixon too, although I think he was unfairly maligned.

Igor Antunov wrote:Really CNN? 70 year old lady, going to her house because she supported Trump on facebook during election? Doxxing her? Giving her address and name to the public? WTF.

Right, and CNN gave the Russians lots of press coverage for their anti-Trump rally. It's pretty remarkable. However, Trump's poll numbers are going up, and they are artificially depressed anyway. It's only February. By March and April, people will get used to seeing more money in their paychecks.

4cal wrote:Mueller is still doing the investigating so he is under no time constraints.

Time is not on Mueller's side. Trump was only the Republican nominee for six months. Already, the investigation is taking longer than the actual campaign. At some point, we have to hold Rosenstein to account. Personally, I think he should be fired anyway for signing off on the FISA applications without probable cause and defrauding the FISC.

Mueller's pointless charges against people over whom he has no in personam jurisdiction is just to try to give cover to Comey, Rosenstein, Fusion GPS, etc. Nothing will ever come of those charges.

The reality is that Hillary Clinton was colluding with Russians indirectly via another foreigner, Christopher Steele, to try to influence the US election. If it is wrong for the Russians to do this, why is it okay for a British spy to do it? Whereas, the Russians used their own money, Hillary Clinton and the Democrats actually paid foreigners to interfere in our elections.
User avatar
By jimjam
#14890944
colliric wrote:He's above 70, he's not 35. Doctor is naturally concerned about him being under undue pressure.

So it's a valid concern, not one to be laughed at. He's no spring chicken. Hillary is in much worse health, she constantly gets colds and whatnot.

point well taken.........
User avatar
By 4cal
#14890955
blackjack21 wrote:(you need to use straight, not curly, quotes for your markup to render properly) If that’s the case, why hasn't he done this easy job in 8+ months?

What is the rush? The President has a 4 year term. It’s not as if he is going to skip town and move to an extradition-free territory. Having the public words of a top campaign advisor in his back pocket is, I’m sure, helpful to the prosecutor.


blackjack21 wrote:So far, nobody from Trump’s campagaign has been charged with anything having to do with Russia.

You need to spell words right if you’re trying to communicate unless you’ve invented a word :lol: :lol:

Again, what is the rush. Ben-gotcha lasted 6+ years. Mueller has forever.
User avatar
By 4cal
#14890962
[quote=blackjack21]
I'm sure a lot of people would disagree with that. Lyndon Johnson and Bill Clinton come to mind. A lot of people felt that way about Nixon too, although I think he was unfairly maligned.
[/quote]

Trump is a piece of shit. All other presidents pale in comparison to the garbage this detestable piece of dung has wrought on the nation.

Again, just consider the last 2 weeks. Trump’s attorney anted up $130,000 to a hooker/porn star/whatever.
So Logic tells us that one of 2 things happened. Either Trump had an affair with her or not. There is nothing else.
So Logic tells us that the $130,000 was paid to either shut her up for telling the truth or lying.
So Logically that means that the allegations were true or that, at best, Trump is such an unimaginable sleezeball that $130,000 had to be paid to a liar because it had the preponderance of truth based on nothing except the word of an adult film star.

Ouch. Can you imagine what it would be like to be one of the people who had faith in this sleezeball like his family…can you imagine what it would be like to be his wife who had just given birth to Baron when he slept with this lady?

[quote=“blackjack21”]
Time is not on Mueller’s side.
[/quote]
Total rubbish.

[quote=“blackjack21”]
Trump was only the Republican nominee for six months. Already, the investigation is taking longer than the actual campaign.
[/quote]
So? Clinton was SoS for 4 years, you guys tried for 6 years to pin Ben-Gotcha on her. How’d that work out?

[quote=“blackjack21”]
At some point, we have to hold Rosenstein to account. Personally, I think he should be fired anyway for signing off on the FISA applications without probable cause and defrauding the FISC.
[/quote]

Comedic. This is why Trump and his supporters are thought of as neanderthals.

Okay….fire Mueller and unchasten him from his role as investigator. What do you think happens? The evidence collected still remains and would likely be taken up by another FBI special agent. Meanwhile, Mueller would be free and candid to tell his story to Congress, their investigators, the press, whomever. I’m sure Kelly has had to walk the Cheeto back from the brink a few times on this one.

Here is what a journalist named Stephen Graff answered when asked:

[size=Century Gothic]
There are legal restrictions, obviously, around the dissemination of classified information, but it's important to think of this not as what is in Robert Mueller's mind, which is, of course, important. But these are in FBI investigative files, so those files don't go away. Those agents don't go away. This was an investigation that began before Robert Mueller was appointed special counsel. I mean, remember, actually, the guilty pleas of George Papadopoulos and Michael Flynn both stem from lies that they told to FBI agents, you know, months before Robert Mueller stepped into this probe. And so those investigators would presumably continue investigating, and there might even be a - you know, a new special counsel appointed who steps in.

And even if that's not true and that the - sort of the special counsel's office is disbanded entirely, the prosecution of those open investigations would likely transfer back to the U.S. attorney's office in D.C. or the U.S. attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia - in Alexandria, Va., and that those investigations might just continue apace absent a special counsel. You know, people sort of forget or don't know the - when you open an FBI investigation, that's actually a very formal process that goes through sort of several different stages of an investigation before you end up with what's known as a full field investigation. And by the time you get there, you have to have shown evidence of a potential criminal act in order to get to that formal OK to continue an investigation.

And then sort of similarly, there's a formal process to shut down an investigation that requires prosecutors to review the evidence with agents and to decline an investigation and charges. And so this is not something that is sort of quite as simple as, you know, if Bob Mueller is fired, he walks out the door, locks the office behind him, and everything just disappears into the ether.

[/size]
https://www.npr.org/templates/transcrip ... =582358540
User avatar
By jimjam
#14891092
blackjack21 wrote:Lyndon Johnson


While Lyndon's sleaziness can hardly be disputed, he went far indeed in helping the common "little guy" with his medicare program which has improved the quality and quantity of life for millions. So far Donald's help for the common man has consisted of hot air and peanuts designed to obscure his true intensions of, essentially, making the rich richer.
#14891171
4cal wrote:You need to spell words right if you’re trying to communicate unless you’ve invented a word :lol: :lol:

I see you could follow that suggestion for exactly one post. :roll:

4cal wrote:Trump is a piece of shit. All other presidents pale in comparison to the garbage this detestable piece of dung has wrought on the nation.

Trump is a saint compared to a lot of politicians. In the past, the practice was just to have the women in question killed. We've come a long way since the days of the Kennedys.

4cal wrote:Total rubbish.

You will never see the problems that Mueller has created for himself, because you don't want to. However, Victor Davis Hanson wrote a pretty poignant article that's not far from some of the things I've said:

The Paradoxes of the Mueller Investigation

VDH wrote:Is it now time to prosecute foreigners for attempting to interfere with a U.S. election? If so, then surely Christopher Steele, the author of the Fusion GPS dossier, is far more culpable and vulnerable than the 13 bumbling Russians.

This is a point that I made not so long ago myself. So eventually, this thought is going to be tripping off the tips of a lot of tongues.


VDH wrote:Steele is not a U.S. citizen. Steele colluded with Russian interests in compiling his lurid dossier about Donald Trump. Steele did not register as a foreign agent. And Steele was paid by Hillary Clinton’s campaign to find dirt on political rival Trump and his campaign.

In other words, Steele’s position is far worse than that of the Russians for a variety of reasons. One, he is easily extraditable while the Russians are not. Two, his efforts really did affect the race, given that the dossier was systematically leaked to major media and served as a basis for the U.S. government to spy on American citizens. Three, unlike with the Russians, no one disputes that American citizens — Hillary Clinton, members of the Democratic National Committee, and anti-Trump partisan Glenn Simpson and his Fusion GPS team — colluded by paying for Steele’s work.

I've said exactly the same thing. Meanwhile, Mueller has finally charged Manafort with the only thing he's really guilty of--tax evasion--which again has nothing to do with the Trump-Russia kerfuffle.

VDH wrote:Mueller’s team has also leveraged a guilty plea from former Trump national-security adviser Michael Flynn for making false statements to FBI investigators. If the Flynn case is now the Mueller standard, then we know that a number of high-ranking officials are vulnerable to such legal exposure.

Department of Justice official Bruce Ohr deliberately omitted on federal disclosure forms the fact that his wife, an expert on Russia, worked on the Fusion GPS dossier.

Yet, Mueller seems to have an astonishing lack of curiousity. It's painfully obvious that he was hired to try to protect Obama and Hillary Clinton from Trump now that Trump is in a position to discover all the things they did. However, as Mueller sets the standard and tone for who is to be prosecuted, he creates the undeniable impression that Democrats are above the law, while Republicans are not.

VDH wrote:Steele himself probably lied to the FBI went he claimed he had not leaked the dossier’s contents to the media.

Indeed. Steele has been referred to the Department of Justice by two United States Senators. They referred the matter directly to Rod Rosenstein, who appears to be doing nothing with the referral.

VDH wrote:Former FBI director James Comey likely lied to Congress when he claimed that his exoneration of Clinton came after he had interviewed her. We now know from documents that he drafted a statement about the conclusion of the investigation even before he met with her.

Absolutely. We also know he likely lied to the court, because he testified that the dossier was salacious and unverified to the US Congress, but I'm guessing he didn't use those words in his earlier FISA application.

VDH wrote:Mueller was appointed at a time of national hysteria, brought on by partisan journalism based on a leaked dossier — itself a product of a discredited British agent working with Russian sources while being paid by the Clinton campaign.

Worse still, the effort to hide the origins and the use of that dossier to obtain court permission to spy on American citizens may be a classic case of obstruction of justice.

Mueller’s existential problem has been with him from the start. Due to the shenanigans of his discredited friend Comey and a rabid media, he was appointed to investigate crimes that did not exist. But if they did exist, collusion and obstruction were committed by those associated with the Clinton campaign and even by members of the Obama administration.

This is plain and obvious for all the world to see. Mueller is the face of America as a banana republic. He's a corporate shill sent to dispatch a president that wasn't approved by the establishment. What he's done is make a mockery of America as some sort of society of freedom, law, justice and fairness.

jimjam wrote:While Lyndon's sleaziness can hardly be disputed, he went far indeed in helping the common "little guy" with his medicare program which has improved the quality and quantity of life for millions. So far Donald's help for the common man has consisted of hot air and peanuts designed to obscure his true intensions of, essentially, making the rich richer.

I'm sure you will not be sending the proceeds of your tax cut back to the US Treasury. For those working folks that have received bonuses and raises following Trump's tax cut, I'm guessing many of them do not agree with your assessment about Trump. If they understood that Medicare was about helping the medical cartel--and why we now have out of control health care prices; thanks Lyndon--they probably wouldn't hold Johnson in very high regard.
User avatar
By 4cal
#14891177
[quote=“blackjack21"]
You will never see the problems that Mueller has created for himself, because you don't want to. However, Victor Davis Hanson wrote a pretty poignant article that's not far from some of the things I've said:
[/quote]

Riiiiiiight…Mueller is the one in trouble. That is why the pervert in the White House is screaming he’s innocent like a little bitch overtime he opens his pie hole.
  • 1
  • 94
  • 95
  • 96
  • 97
  • 98
  • 266

They are building a Russian Type nuclear reactor..[…]

Russia-Ukraine War 2022

Hamas are terrorist animals who started this and […]

It is possible but Zelensky refuses to talk... no[…]

Israel-Palestinian War 2023

@skinster Hamas committed a terrorist attack(s)[…]