Gunman in shooting spree at Florida high school. Many injuries. ...What is wrong in the USA? - Page 41 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14895318
Of course snopes calls the claims false. I especially found this comment about the Fox and Friends claim hysterical:

Straight-faced claims that there is material evidence for up to 5.7 million non-citizen votes in 2008 are remarkable, given that the study commonly cited as the basis for this claim has provided material evidence for five (not even six!) non-citizen votes in that year.


I am running out of words to describe the stupidity and or racism that would drive someone with at least the intelligence of plankton to believe these claims.

Add to that the fact that they ask us to believe that nearly 1/2 of the 12 million people who are in the country hiding from the police and immigration officials, walk into a voter registration office, proffer their mostly fake IDs and risk arrest and deportation solely so they can vote for their local dog catcher. It boggles the imagination.

But Trump supporters are a special brand of stupid. They are not thinking. They are emoting. Or worse yet. They are just garden variety racists. The same people who 100 years ago wailed about the "Irish invasion". The same racists who in my youth I knew to belong to the "gentile" country club. (No Jews or Catholics allowed.) They didn't even discuss blacks because there was never any question of a black joining a country club.

I suppose that the thing about the last election that most surprised me was the overwhelming evidence of just how many Americans are angry, deceived or just plain stupid. I have defaulted to stupid in the end because now, a year later, in the face of corrupt, disorganized, deceitful and amazingly disorganized behavior they still follow him. I mean really. These mouth-breathers, while claiming to be conservatives, applauded welfare for the wealthy while driving up the deficit to levels that would make a liberal Californian blush. One can only conclude that they are just not smart enough to know the difference. Sad.
#14895322
By the way, just got back from Cuba again, and the "Trump wants teachers to be armed" is on their news every day as an example of how violent and dysfunctional American "democracy" is.

It was interesting to see that NRA guy dubbed into Cuban Spanish: "If only bad guys carry guns we're not safe. We need to arm good guys."

I'm not sure if Cubans watch enough Hollywood or enough commercial advertising to understand that "good-guys vs bad-guys" explains why teachers need to be ready to shoot-and-kill on a second's notice in American high schools (and primary schools?).

In Cuban schools, the challenge isn't to survive a hail of bullets, it's to keep your school uniform clean all day even though you spend a long time outside playing with friends.
#14895331
Drlee wrote:Of course snopes calls the claims false. I especially found this comment about the Fox and Friends claim hysterical:



I am running out of words to describe the stupidity and or racism that would drive someone with at least the intelligence of plankton to believe these claims.

Add to that the fact that they ask us to believe that nearly 1/2 of the 12 million people who are in the country hiding from the police and immigration officials, walk into a voter registration office, proffer their mostly fake IDs and risk arrest and deportation solely so they can vote for their local dog catcher. It boggles the imagination.

But Trump supporters are a special brand of stupid. They are not thinking. They are emoting. Or worse yet. They are just garden variety racists. The same people who 100 years ago wailed about the "Irish invasion". The same racists who in my youth I knew to belong to the "gentile" country club. (No Jews or Catholics allowed.) They didn't even discuss blacks because there was never any question of a black joining a country club.

I suppose that the thing about the last election that most surprised me was the overwhelming evidence of just how many Americans are angry, deceived or just plain stupid. I have defaulted to stupid in the end because now, a year later, in the face of corrupt, disorganized, deceitful and amazingly disorganized behavior they still follow him. I mean really. These mouth-breathers, while claiming to be conservatives, applauded welfare for the wealthy while driving up the deficit to levels that would make a liberal Californian blush. One can only conclude that they are just not smart enough to know the difference. Sad.


Just think, we could have had Hillary. She ain't crooked! :lol: :lol: :lol:
#14895408
Godstud wrote:That's false, and there is absolutely no evidence to support this statement. More lies from the religious alt-right.

Isn't 'Thou shall not bear false witness' a commandment any more?

There is evidence to support illegal voting. There has been evidence of illegal voting in Texas on the Democrat side ever since I was a teenager. Even dead people were voting Democrat during the time of Lyndon Johnson running for Senator. Now California Democrats are known to be protecting illegal immigrants because they see them as voters for them. It is simple common sense. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
Last edited by Hindsite on 11 Mar 2018 22:05, edited 1 time in total.
#14895431
Florida makes an attempt to tighten gun control a little bit in the wake of the massacre:
The age necessary to acquire is to be generally raised from age 18 to 21 with some minor exemptions.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43352078
It does not ban semi-automatic weapons, but bans supplements to make them fully automatic.

For this Florida is now being sued by NRA, claiming this small attempt was not constitutional.
Why the hell should anybody think that such an organisation, bribing politicians in great style, could be in accordance to US-Constitution?
Isn't it simply nuts to assume such?
But we can clearly see, that these NRA-guys do not bear in their hearts any shame, but dollars in abundance.
Mafia, to be called at best, feels to have the right to admonish citizens for their best?
It is so bizarre.
#14895439
The news media reported that the Florida law includes all long guns in the ban for ages 18 to 21.
That is probably why the NRA is against it, because that would mean people in Florida ages 18 to 21 can not buy any firearm legally.
That is viewed as unconstitutional by the NRA. We will have to let the Supreme Court determine that issue.
#14895441
QatzelOk wrote:By the way, just got back from Cuba again, and the "Trump wants teachers to be armed" is on their news every day as an example of how violent and dysfunctional American "democracy" is.

It was interesting to see that NRA guy dubbed into Cuban Spanish: "If only bad guys carry guns we're not safe. We need to arm good guys."

I'm not sure if Cubans watch enough Hollywood or enough commercial advertising to understand that "good-guys vs bad-guys" explains why teachers need to be ready to shoot-and-kill on a second's notice in American high schools (and primary schools?).

In Cuban schools, the challenge isn't to survive a hail of bullets, it's to keep your school uniform clean all day even though you spend a long time outside playing with friends.


There are a dozen or so countries around Cuba with a signicantly higher murder by gun rates than the US. Cuba's is estimated to be 0.5 people/100,000 which, again, points fewer guns = less murders, but again, there are loads of countries, democracies, with very low rates that do allow guns.
#14895480
Hindsite wrote:There is evidence to support illegal voting.
No, there is not. You cannot provide said evidence because it does not exist past the 5 or 6 people they found that voted illegally. You're promoting a lie as if it was fact because you have a hard-on for your god-commander-in-chief, Trump.

Hindsite wrote:That is probably why the NRA is against it, because that would mean people in Florida ages 18 to 21 can not buy any firearm legally.
What is wrong with that? You cannot drink legally until age 21, in Florida, due to people assuming you are not responsible enough. A gun carries a lot more responsibility than alcoholic consumption.

Again, gun-nuts are all for exercising their right, but not exercising it responsibly.

Suntzu wrote:By comparison, Mexico is 16.35 and Canada 1.68 which goes to show it is more linked to culture than gun availability.
It's both. That's been proven. You need gun regulation and a cultural shift. At the same time, Mexico and Canada do not have gun possession as a right, but a privilege.

Also, Mexico has huge cartel and drug problems due to USA drug consumption. Let's ignore other factors related to murder rates, why don't we. :roll:
#14895491
Drlee wrote:They believe in arming citizens for the sole purpose of opposing their own government.

That is the original fundamental purpose of the 2nd Amendment, after all -- to prevent the federal government from using the authority granted to Congress to regulate the state militias to disarm them, so that if that federal government became tyrannical its citizens would have the means to resist it. Which would mean that, at least at the federal level, the 2nd Amendment protects private ownership of all standard light infantry weapons.

For the more self-defense reasoning added by those that gave us Incorporation through the 14th Amendment, here's anti-gun zealots providing an example of why we need to be able to defend ourselves:

What Conservative Women Can Learn About Liberals From the Way They Treat Dana Loesch

    I have known Dana Loesch for a long time and I’ve been pleased to see her work her way up the food chain on the Right. She didn’t get to where she is because of a publicity stunt, because her whole gig is to offend people or because she mindlessly shills for the Republican Party. Instead, she’s someone with talent who was out there working her butt off for years.

    Is Dana Loesch a mainstream grassroots conservative? Absolutely. Is she someone who should be considered a feminist role model? You bet. Having met her and her husband on numerous occasions, I can tell you that they seem to be a great couple with a great marriage; they’ve got kids; she’s topped the 20 hottest conservative women in the new media AND she’s respected for her mind. On top of that, Dana has had a successful career. That’s probably as close to the “You can have it all” feminist ideal as you can get.

    That is why the liberal reaction to Dana Loesch since she became one of the most prominent women on the Right by becoming an NRA spokeswoman has been so fascinating. Granted, Dana does occasionally say something controversial, but that’s not a regular thing for her. She’s not a fascist, a white supremacist or even mean-spirited. She doesn’t advocate gun violence or school shootings. In fact, as a general rule, Dana spends the vast majority of her time expressing mainstream conservative beliefs.

    That’s what makes the insane level of abuse she receives from the Left stand out so much. Just to give you an example of what I mean, these are just some of the comments she shared on her Twitter timeline in the last 24 hours and they are very typical:

      Islandtime: @POTUSbonespur "Wouldn't it be sad is @DLoesch's children were the victims of gun violence. Thoughts and prayers..."

      Larry: @seffrtnow "Not only are you a terrorist you are a Despicable loathsome vial scumbag who advocates for Mass school shootings for money shame on you you piece of crap @DLoesch"

      irreverentmama: @irreverentmama "You're a whore for the NRA."

      Jim Cornette @TheJimCornette "OK, Doll, you're quoting that terrorist @NRA c*nt on my Twitter now? Sorry, bye."

      Dar Dixon @dardixon1 "@DLoesch it’s unproductive, disingenuous & non resourceful to claim that you’re anything but a WHORE for the @NRA $$$"

      Tim Kassen @tkassen "Also, you are a liar. Your children will hate having to defend you once they are outside of your bubble"

    Of course the habitual, vile, sexist abuse from liberals on Twitter is just the tip of the iceberg where Dana is concerned.

    National Rifle Association spokeswoman Dana Loesch announced Sunday on Twitter that her family had been forced to move suddenly after she received multiple death threats from gun control advocates.

      (From Dana) One guy hunted down my private cell phone number, called when police were here, threatened to shoot me in my front yard. #MeToo…. Another guy created a string of social media accounts, posted photos of my house, threatened to rape me to death. #MeToo…. Another gun control advocate, after threatening to hunt me down and assault me, dragged my kids into it. #MeToo…. I’ve only ever discussed these issues kinda vaguely. More I can’t discuss. I and other 2A women are sexually threatened regularly #MeToo

    Maybe it’s just me, but don’t liberals INCESSANTLY complain about the sexual mistreatment of women and shame the men responsible (along with every other man they can find?) Yet, while that’s happening, presumably liberal men have been threatening to rape Dana and murder her children. What do you think the reaction of liberals would be if they found out Rachel Maddow or Michelle Obama had to move for their safety after getting those kind of messages? It would be on the front page of every paper in America and there would be Twitter hashtags for days. So why are the vast majority of liberals indifferent to rape and death threats as long as they’re aimed at someone like Dana?

Does Dana Loesch carry? I have no idea, though I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn she does. And I don't blame her at all, with that kind of abuse she should.
#14895516
That is the original fundamental purpose of the 2nd Amendment, after all -- to prevent the federal government from using the authority granted to Congress to regulate the state militias to disarm them, so that if that federal government became tyrannical its citizens would have the means to resist it. Which would mean that, at least at the federal level, the 2nd Amendment protects private ownership of all standard light infantry weapons.


I disagree. But even if it were true the time for this nonsense is over. It is idiotic to think that we are better off with 2 million Bubbas challenging the legitimate government over some of the bullshit that libertarians here shovel. The ballot is our means of overthrowing the government and it was then. You are mistaking a states rights issue with an individual rights issue anyway.

Remember that I am a multiple gun owner. I can carry concealed if I want to. I do not believe citizens should be allowed to carry concealed without considerable training and a very good reason. "Because I am 21 and the pawn shop was open" is not a good reason.
#14895528
Godstud wrote:That's false, and there is absolutely no evidence to support this statement. More lies from the religious alt-right.

Isn't 'Thou shall not bear false witness' a commandment any more?


Dude, his only goal here is to have someone talk to him. He can't garner anyone's attention in real life so he just tells lie after lie to get attention. Just ignore him
#14896166
Doug64 wrote:That is the original fundamental purpose of the 2nd Amendment, after all -- to prevent the federal government from using the authority granted to Congress to regulate the state militias to disarm them, so that if that federal government became tyrannical its citizens would have the means to resist it.

This is the spin that was put on the Second Amendment, but not the reality.

What was feared was that a strong, moral federal government would put a stop to the massacres of First Nations. Before the American "Revolution," the U.K. had stopped expansion westward, even after the Seven Years War (French Indians War).

The colonists were pissed off that they didn't get to kill Injuns and take their land after that war (ends 1760). So, 16 years later, the colonists break away from those injun-loving Brits, and then write a constitutional amendment that ensures the non-stop butchering of "the other."

Now, you have massacres in elementary schools and kindergardens, and the business community wants you to keep shooting because it's money in the bank for them. It all started with massacring the people you first met when you arrived here. The business community made a lot of money off of those massacres as well.
#14897193
blackjack21 wrote:What race of people is most likely to get arrested and convicted for violating "gun control" relative to other racial groups? People who support gun control usually support putting black people in jail for violating gun control laws.


True, I believe if Blacks started to buy guns and open carry in Southern states, these NRA folks will pull a Reagan. He was the architect of gun laws(ironically for Reagan worshipers).


blackjack21 wrote:There's no irony. Black schools are filled with concealed carry folks. They just don't have a permit to do that.


That's racist, many Black students aren't in gangs.
#14897291
Suntzu wrote:Black only commit about half the murders in the U.S. They are probably using machettes like they do in the rest of the world.



Well who else going to fill the prisons for slave labor, we didn't put drugs and guns in their homes for nothing. :eh: Also machettes aren't very easy to conceal. You can't just go to school with a knife sticking out your backpack, in Texas you can.

4,000 murders is relatively low(not counting false charges against unarmed Blacks and lack of police in white rural areas) compare to 14,000 mass shootings in 2017. Considering most Black on Black "crime" is between two people, I'm going make a safe bet that Blacks commit less than 20% of that 14,000.

But instead of deflecting on the Black boogieman and beating that 13% commits 50% of murder bull(which is unreliable since the FBI is anti-trump); A tactic most of us does when we won't admit or take accountability of our own crimes or communities; lets talk about the drugs in the white neighborhoods, that kills more than war and gun violence. :hmm:
#14897294
Of course the problem with the right on this matter is that they take the position that if any one measure does not eliminate completely the entire problem then no action is preferable. They take this position simply because they are simply not very smart. And they are abjectly racist almost to the man.

I note this week that the President of the United States referred to a black congresswoman "needing to take an IQ test". It occurs to me that I would not recommend that any Trump supporter take an IQ test. Why endure a self-inflicted wound to the ego like that.

Republicans (as opposed to conservatives since few are actually conservatives anymore) rely on the decisiveness of gun legislation to maintain their fragile coalition. (That is why Trump is still president by the way. They need the dumb-asses he wields like a sword.) One only has to look at the abject absurdity of arming teachers to see where the level of intelligence of these fools. No sentient human could recommend such a foolish course of action. I absolutely blame teachers for not organizing and saying, "enough". But I guess some of them would like to be packing heat in the classroom. You know. The ones who were to cowardly to serve in the military.
#14899297
If I was a teacher, I wouldn't want to be one packing heat.

I would be one who urged my union to demand the feds and or states paid my life insurance policy with a danger payment if i was shot in a school situation. I think politicians might find the appropriate gun law changes easier and cheaper
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