9 Reasons Not to Believe the Gospels - Page 16 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14911052
The last step in convincing yourself you are the most important thing in the universe is to kill the God of others.
You are now omnipotent. Whoopee.
#14911054
One Degree wrote:The last step in convincing yourself you are the most important thing in the universe is to kill the God of others.
You are now omnipotent. Whoopee.


You spend a lot of time trying to make other people look awful.
#14911057
Pants-of-dog wrote:No, I am specifically discussing omniscience, not providence


I've read the Dune series and if you'll remember it was the tyrant's act of imposing his golden path on the human race that determined the future, not his prescience. The golden path was an intervention in history, that's the definition of providence.
#14911058
Pants-of-dog wrote:You spend a lot of time trying to make other people look awful.


I know it appears that way to others, but it is not my intent. I am just me expressing views with total disregard of individuals except when they make childish attacks. I am not immune to pettiness, but 99% of my posts have no individuals in mind. Just ideas.
#14911059
One Degree wrote:I know it appears that way to others, but it is not my intent. I am just me expressing views with total disregard of individuals except when they make childish attacks. I am not immune to pettiness, but 99% of my posts have no individuals in mind. Just ideas.


The one you referred to had no one in mind.
#14911064
Pants-of-dog wrote:People do not believe in god because of compelling rational arguments.


The arguments are rationally compelling to people who are deficient in critical thinking skills, which is most people.

I should add that most atheism is also due to that same deficiency.


They do so mostly because their parents raised them that way.


People believe for many reasons, rational, psychological, cultural, evolutionary, there's no one reason or primary reason.
#14911112
Sivad wrote:People believe for many reasons, rational, psychological, cultural, evolutionary, there's no one reason or primary reason.

You seem to be contradicting your earlier comment:
"The first is that none of the arguments for theism really prove anything, they're not rationally compelling,"
#14911119
Besoeker wrote:You seem to be contradicting your earlier comment


I'm not, all I'm saying is it's rational from their uninformed, uncritical perspective.
#14911142
Besoeker wrote:So not really rational - at least not what most people would consider rational.


It goes both ways, most atheists, especially strong atheists, couldn't mount a decent argument to save their lives. The New Atheists like Dawkins and Hitchens are just godawful at atheism, and most of the physicists like Hawking and Krauss couldn't philosophize their way out of a paper bag.
#14911148
Sivad wrote:It goes both ways, most atheists, especially strong atheists, couldn't mount a decent argument to save their lives. The New Atheists like Dawkins and Hitchens are just godawful at atheism, and most of the physicists like Hawking and Krauss couldn't philosophize their way out of a paper bag.

Do you dispute evolution?
#14911149
Sivad wrote:I've read the Dune series and if you'll remember it was the tyrant's act of imposing his golden path on the human race that determined the future, not his prescience. The golden path was an intervention in history, that's the definition of providence.


The Tyrant worm was actually saving humanity from a pre-determined future. That is the Golden Path. It was the Bene Gesserit who accidentally doomed humanity by bringing about the Kwisatz Haderach, who imposed a pre-determined future on humanity through prescience.
#14911217
Pants-of-dog wrote:The Tyrant worm was actually saving humanity from a pre-determined future. That is the Golden Path. It was the Bene Gesserit who accidentally doomed humanity by bringing about the Kwisatz Haderach, who imposed a pre-determined future on humanity through prescience.


Wow, you really misread that series. Paul foresaw multiple possible futures, all of them ending in the extinction of the human race except for one, the golden path. Prescience didn't predetermine the future, it was just inevitably going to be weaponized and used to wipe out the human race. That's why Leto created a genetic line invisible to prescience, commissioned the Ixians to design no-chambers, and brought about the scattering. The series wasn't about fatalism, it did describe the forces that shape the world and determine the future, but ultimately it was about how knowledge of those forces gives us the power to forge the future for ourselves.

"Now, remember, the first step in avoiding a *trap* - is knowing of its existence."
#14911236
It’s pretty clear that prescience is seen as a force that destroys humanity. It is the crux if the second novel, and is explored more fully in the discussions between Paul and Leto at the end of the third book.
#14911258
Besoeker wrote:Why are you avoiding a perfectly civil question?


I'm not avoiding the question, I'm just not looking for another debate that's stuck on stupid right now.
#14911266
Sivad wrote:I'm not avoiding the question, I'm just not looking for another debate that's stuck on stupid right now.

Not avoiding it?
What debate?

Evolution and abiogenesis are not stupid topics.
We can't discuss or debate them unless you have more to express than vacuous one-liners dismissing any informed views.
#14911269
Besoeker wrote: dismissing any informed views.


If you had an informed view you wouldn't have brought up evolution, you would understand that it's entirely irrelevant to what we were discussing. If you want an ignorant debate go find someone on your level, like a religious fundie, and bang it out with them.
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