What are your thoughts on Hegel? [FASCIST EDITION] - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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The non-democratic state: Platonism, Fascism, Theocracy, Monarchy etc.
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#14915653
Oxymandias wrote:Do more than just write books. Engage in the real (not digital) political world from time to time.


We'll see, I do intend to do some public debates in an academic setting, perhaps start a channel on youtube. So its not merely writing books. To be honest, working on my off-grid farm in the morning, writing books in the afternoon, shooting pool, smoking cigars, and drinking scotch in the evening....that seems like paradise to me. No creditors, no public utilities, no employer, total and true freedom where I can criticize the modern world and they can take nothing from me. No one can fire me, shut of my electricity, black-list me, all they can do is attack my views and resort to violence. Otherwise, my family will continue to be educated, fed, and protected by me and my labor.

There is hardly anything more American in my opinion. If you want to know what the old school American ethos is like, that is it. Self-reliance and being king of one's castle.

Oxymandias wrote:Given that you live in close proximity to D.C. and I assume at least one of your sons are old enough to take of the farm if you're not there, go there and simply experience it. Examine your environment and try to understand how politics in America not through the lens of others but through your own independent experience with it. Dedicate some time to understand the dynamics of power in D.C.. Go to some rallies in D.C. for any politician (Republican or Democrat) and observe them closely, identify what they're doing right and what they're doing wrong. Also pay close attention to the audience, find a way to understand how the crowd's feeling and what emotions the actions of the politician is putting into the hearts of the attendees. Understand how to get into those exclusive clubs or get it in with those high ranking people not to use them but to simply understand the way the current system works so that you may develop a way to work around it.


You fail to understand the situation here I think. They won't let me into the necessary circles. They have researchers that spend their whole day figuring out who people are, what "online forums" they posted on, etc. They hack your computers, they threaten your family, the boycott your business, they get your tenure removed, get you fired, etc., etc. I am not interested in that.

If dueling and binding disputations were legal, I might feel different, but these people are animals in suits who have no honor and no chance of suffering real repercussions for their devious schemes.

Perhaps Almighty God will call me to a service that will require my martyrdom or sacrifice in that more "engaged" way, but for now it seems that I have been called to grow the movement by having children, raising them in the system i espouse and to get my ideas out there through the power of the printing press and the podium. That is fine by me for now.

Oxymandias wrote:There is so much more I could be telling. You have the potential to be another Bismarck.


Why do you think so? What the fuck do you see in me? You have voiced in other forums our real disagreements, but you seem eager to push me to new heights where I can broadcast ideas (which you seem to disagree with).

I don't see you doing this with other right-wing posters on here, and given that I hold different views, why would you want them to spread?

Are you trying to get me assassinated, is that it? lol :lol:

Oxymandias wrote:Now you might think to yourself, "What need do I have for political power? I am living my life perfectly secluded in my farm away from the ills of outside society so who cares about what happens outside my farm when it doesn't even affect me at all?". Then I ask, do you really think your happy little isolated life will last? Do you think that, with the way things are currently going, you won't be bothered whatsoever?


No, but in such a state the responsibility for my failures, for my defeats, will ultimately rest with me. The idea of being undermined by bankers, hackers, and beaurcrats is an atrocious idea. A scenario where the whims and machinations of others can drive you into poverty and disgrace. However, Dying trying to fend off armed enemies on my own land? That seems like a good way to go.

Barring an armed threat to me and mine, I am trying to create conditions and revive skills where nothing else will threaten me. No power outages, food shortages, currency crashes, oil crisis, etc., will hurt my family's functioning, but an armed threat? Sure. But I would prefer that, at least my survival and victory rests with me and not on others.

Oxymandias wrote:This lack of control leads to a power vacuum which leads to inactivity in the government which, in turn, leads to stagnation.


I think it is in the nature of such a state as the U.S. government that it will collapse under its own weight inevitably. Why should I do anything other than watch it happen from a safe distance with beer and popcorn?

Oxymandias wrote:nything can go now, and this goes for you achieving political power as well. Men want power for many reasons, but those of noble character, always want power to protect those precious to them. You don't want power to implement your ideas or want power for the sake of it, you want power to protect your family, community, and country.


This is true, but I am a man of ideas, so I am to the Ruler that will come, what Aristotle was to Alexander the Great. That is fine for me, my mark will be eternal nonetheless.

Now, if you were to tell me that i had to make a choice between living on my farm or leaving a lasting impact on the world, there was no doubt that I spent most of my life thinking that the latter was a no-brainer.

Let me use an illustration to explain my position now.

I don't know how familiar you are with Homer and the Trojan War, but Achilles was given a choice between gaining glory and dying young and childless, or to live a long but uneventful life in obscurity bearing forth children who would love and honor him in old age. Unlike Achilles, I would choose the latter because my victory comes not merely from how loud I can't shout or how convincingly I can write, but by my blood, if they alone (those of my line) commit to my ideas, so be it. I care more that they do so than if anyone else does so. Perhaps I am selfish for this, but my love, loyalty, and priority is to my faith and my family name.

Indeed, in the great battle between Achilles and Hector, if I had to be one of those two men in that battle, I would not hesitate to be Hector even after knowing his fate. That was a man of honor in my opinion, a family man who reluctantly, but willingly, died for his convictions, family, and people.

In essence, Fuck the path of Achilles.

i'm not interested.

Rather, let me die old and surrounded by many many children and grandchildren who love and adore me, or let me die young trying to protect them.

That is fine by me, and if God so chooses to elevate my ideas or status to the benefit of others? Glory be to Him, but that is not up to me.

as the Lynyrd Skynyrd songs states: "All I Can Do Is Write About It."
#14915656
Victoribus Spolia wrote:There is hardly anything more American in my opinion. If you want to know what the old school American ethos is like, that is it. Self-reliance and being king of one's castle.

You fail to understand the situation here I think. They won't let me into the necessary circles. They have researchers that spend their whole day figuring out who people are, what "online forums" they posted on, etc. They hack your computers, they threaten your family, the boycott your business, they get your tenure removed, get you fired, etc., etc. I am not interested in that.

I understand, you're quite right, independence is allowed to exist, but not to flourish.

So, you resign yourself to the life of a successful dilettante. Fine by me. It's the smartest course, and who knows what your example might breed. Find your self a good literary agent. (then send me his name.)

Zam
#14915660
Zamuel wrote:So, you resign yourself to the life of a successful dilettante. Fine by me.


Dilettante is an interesting choice of words, but I suppose you are right.

Ultimately I find the agrarian aristocrat or farming freeman of Jefferson's imagination to be quite appealing. I am a polymath, a lifelong craftsman and tradesman and an academic earning several degrees. I enjoy butchering hogs and wearing three piece suits, I enjoy threshing grain and debating philosophy. I don't really fit anywhere anyway besides the fact that I am unwanted because of my views.

I look forward to the day where I can host other contrarians in my home where they can feel both safe and hospitably-cared-for as we debate history and politics in my library around the pool table, drinking martinis and lighting our pipes while my wife and giant brood of children prepare the evening feast made from food I grew and harvested by my own hands and on my own land.

That just sounds heavenly to me. I can't imagine a better life.
#14915694
@Victoribus Spolia

We'll see, I do intend to do some public debates in an academic setting, perhaps start a channel on youtube. So its not merely writing books. To be honest, working on my off-grid farm in the morning, writing books in the afternoon, shooting pool, smoking cigars, and drinking scotch in the evening....that seems like paradise to me. No creditors, no public utilities, no employer, total and true freedom where I can criticize the modern world and they can take nothing from me. No one can fire me, shut of my electricity, black-list me, all they can do is attack my views and resort to violence. Otherwise, my family will continue to be educated, fed, and protected by me and my labor.


Well, I guess you can just hope for the best and pray that someone out there with the opportunities to enact change reads your works and identifies with them, making your ideas a core part of who he is. I do admit that self-sufficiency is a very attractive prospect and I don't want to dissuade you from maintaining that lifestyle, I just wanted you to take your ideology and make it into a reality. Many people here only engage in simple armchair discussions about politics without actually influencing politics at all. Writing a book is all fine and dandy, it let's you get other people outside your forum to be exposed to your ideas, but it's too risky as a means of getting the reality you wish to see implemented in the world around you.

Why do you think so? What the fuck do you see in me? You have voiced in other forums our real disagreements, but you seem eager to push me to new heights where I can broadcast ideas (which you seem to disagree with).

I don't see you doing this with other right-wing posters on here, and given that I hold different views, why would you want them to spread?

Are you trying to get me assassinated, is that it? lol :lol:


I usually only suggest to personally engage in politics to users who happen to have a clear and defined ideology regardless of what that ideology entails. It's nothing about you particularly, it's simply that people who have clearly defined ideologies often have the will to bring them into reality, they simply doubt that it would be possible given their circumstances or the circumstances of their respective countries. Having engaged in politics myself I find that this way of thinking is false. People do have the capabilities to change the circumstances around them and there are plenty of opportunities to do so, they simply need to take off those dark-tinted glasses and see the world for what it really is.

Now you might ask exactly why I endorse anyone to implement their ideas in reality despite me disagreeing with those ideas. My answer is simple, the world today is too uninteresting a place. There is simply not much going on and not much to engage in. The world is dominated by several large powers, many of them overwhelmingly powerful to the extent that many simply place minor, simplistic geo-political games that don't effect the world at large. Yes, to the people of this generation these events are large and complex from their perspectives as these are the biggest things to occur in their lives. But look upon history and you will see that the current "complexities" of our time are mere 2 by 2 puzzles compared to the interconnected and overlapping identities present in eras yonder. I wish to return to that period, I wish to see a diversity of thought emerge in the world and to see those diversities of thought implemented in our own hard, cold reality.

TL;DR I want a multi-polar world instead of a uni-polar or bi-polar world that we currently find ourselves in.

You fail to understand the situation here I think. They won't let me into the necessary circles. They have researchers that spend their whole day figuring out who people are, what "online forums" they posted on, etc. They hack your computers, they threaten your family, the boycott your business, they get your tenure removed, get you fired, etc., etc. I am not interested in that.


Then forego it all. Who said that political power comes from bureaucracy? Political power is more primal than that. It is merely the acquisition of allegiance from a people, and once that happens no neanderthal in a suit can stop you from achieving your vision.

No, but in such a state the responsibility for my failures, for my defeats, will ultimately rest with me. The idea of being undermined by bankers, hackers, and beaurcrats is an atrocious idea. A scenario where the whims and machinations of others can drive you into poverty and disgrace. However, Dying trying to fend off armed enemies on my own land? That seems like a good way to go.


Like I said, forego the bankers, hackers, and bureaucrats. None of them are necessary for the acquisition of power.

I think it is in the nature of such a state as the U.S. government that it will collapse under its own weight inevitably. Why should I do anything other than watch it happen from a safe distance with beer and popcorn?


You are willing to see the US collapse? Why is that?

This is true, but I am a man of ideas, so I am to the Ruler that will come, what Aristotle was to Alexander the Great. That is fine for me, my mark will be eternal nonetheless.

Now, if you were to tell me that i had to make a choice between living on my farm or leaving a lasting impact on the world, there was no doubt that I spent most of my life thinking that the latter was a no-brainer.

Let me use an illustration to explain my position now.

I don't know how familiar you are with Homer and the Trojan War, but Achilles was given a choice between gaining glory and dying young and childless, or to live a long but uneventful life in obscurity bearing forth children who would love and honor him in old age. Unlike Achilles, I would choose the latter because my victory comes not merely from how loud I can't shout or how convincingly I can write, but by my blood, if they alone (those of my line) commit to my ideas, so be it. I care more that they do so than if anyone else does so. Perhaps I am selfish for this, but my love, loyalty, and priority is to my faith and my family name.

Indeed, in the great battle between Achilles and Hector, if I had to be one of those two men in that battle, I would not hesitate to be Hector even after knowing his fate. That was a man of honor in my opinion, a family man who reluctantly, but willingly, died for his convictions, family, and people.

In essence, Fuck the path of Achilles.

i'm not interested.

Rather, let me die old and surrounded by many many children and grandchildren who love and adore me, or let me die young trying to protect them.

That is fine by me, and if God so chooses to elevate my ideas or status to the benefit of others? Glory be to Him, but that is not up to me.

as the Lynyrd Skynyrd songs states: "All I Can Do Is Write About It."


Well I guess there's no convincing you. I'll just find someone else with well-defined ideas to implement them or I'll implement my ideas myself. I find the idea of pushing forth my ideas in reality or dying because it more appealing than living an uneventful life with no influence on reality. If I implement my ideas then good, I have now changed the face of the current dynamics of the world and left a lasting impact on it (preferably good). If not, I intend to die trying. Through only my own efforts I will succeed and through my efforts I will fail. That's the life for me.
#14915696
Victoribus Spolia wrote:Dilettante is an interesting choice of words, but I suppose you are right.

Nothing judgmental implied by the word. To achieve such status without succumbing to academic conformity is commendable.

Zam 8)
#14915709
Oxymandias wrote:You are willing to see the US collapse? Why is that?


Willing is not my preferred term, but resolved to the idea; perhaps.

I think it is an inevitablity, America and Americanism is about more that the government in DC or the constitution, its a spiritual essence, it is the people, their culture, etc. Such has been corrupted by a government that is fiscally untenable.

The prophets of the Old Testament by no means wanted the people of God to go into captivity, but they foresaw the inevitability of it nonetheless and issued the warnings in spite of such. I empathize with this.

Oxymandias wrote:Well I guess there's no convincing you.


I can always be convinced that I am wrong, if I am actually wrong.

Oxymandias wrote:I'll just find someone else with well-defined ideas to implement them or I'll implement my ideas myself.


The temptation to engage in political action is tempting, but your whole argument is grounded in the premise that "its not as oppressively corrupt and exclusionary as you might think."

It seems you feel that the biggest obstacle to political engagement is one's own pessimism. I find this novel idea fascinating, but am also tempted to call it naive. However, since you boast more actual political experience than myself, I suppose I will keep your suggestions under consideration. For now.

I hope you are right.

Otherwise, I also find it rather humorous that, in a roundabout way, you more-or-less confessed that you want people who disagree with you to become politically engaged for purposes of your own amusement as you find the climate of political non-diversity to be boring.

Image
#14915729
@Victoribus Spolia

Willing is not my preferred term, but resolved to the idea; perhaps.

I think it is an inevitablity, America and Americanism is about more that the government in DC or the constitution, its a spiritual essence, it is the people, their culture, etc. Such has been corrupted by a government that is fiscally untenable.

The prophets of the Old Testament by no means wanted the people of God to go into captivity, but they foresaw the inevitability of it nonetheless and issued the warnings in spite of such. I empathize with this.


I find that interesting. In the Middle East and Islamic culture, struggling for your goals, defending yourself from harm (if someone slaps you in the face you don't turn the other cheek), and actively fighting injustice is encouraged in Islam (as well as overthrowing an authority figure; if a king is injust it is permissible to dispose of him). In other words, Islam encourages being an active participant in the world around you. In Christianity however, you are encouraged to be merely an observer of the world, instead of a direct participant. If you're a Christian, God will eventually damn those who have wronged him, there is no reason for his servants to do anything else other than worship him. If you're a Muslim however, by struggling against injustice and fighting for a future for yourself you are serving your Lord.

The fall of the Caliph was inevitable yet that didn't stop people from preventing it from falling apart despite the Caliphate's fate not being in their hands.

I can always be convinced that I am wrong, if I am actually wrong.


The issue is that you aren't wrong. The goal isn't to convince you that you're wrong or to make you say that you'll do what I told you to. My goal is to motivate to become not just more politically active but to make a large and risky effort to make your ideas a reality. Going into politics is risky and you may (heck, you're nearly guaranteed) not get that much in return for your efforts but the highs are really rewarding. You truly feel like your making progress, that you're impacting the world in some way. Politics is really easy to screw up but when you get it right, you achieve so much. That is my main goal in writing to you like this.

The temptation to engage in political action is tempting, but your whole argument is grounded in the premise that "its not as oppressively corrupt and exclusionary as you might think."

It seems you feel that the biggest obstacle to political engagement is one's own pessimism. I find this novel idea fascinating, but am also tempted to call it naive. However, since you boast more actual political experience than myself, I suppose I will keep your suggestions under consideration. For now.

I hope you are right.


Oh no, I never said that it wasn't oppressively corrupt. Politics is and corruption will be the first thing you'll notice when getting into politics. Of course I am speaking from an Iranian point of view but I think America and the rest of the world is somewhat similar. Power corrupts regardless of how stable or how many checks and balances are in a political system. Politics is about getting the right people to support you and the way you do this is by making it in their interest to do so. Basic political systems such as absolute monarchy or dictatorship are structures created to formalize that relationship between the influencer (i.e. politician) and the influenced (i.e. the politician's supporter). What makes political systems reach a higher-order are political systems that create structures not just to maintain power but to utilize for the benefit of the population. In the context of democracy, the entire idea of the government is that it is meant to benefit solely the population.

America, thankfully for you, is such a government and so the government still wants to benefit the population despite all the actions it has taken. This means that, while the American political sphere is corrupt, it still is accessible to most of the population and the political sphere still values public input and the doors to political power are still open to those who want it.

Otherwise, I also find it rather humorous that, in a roundabout way, you more-or-less confessed that you want people who disagree with you to become politically engaged for purposes of your own amusement as you find the climate of political non-diversity to be boring.


That pretty much wraps up my reasoning. I like watching interesting things happen.
#14915772
Hello VS, I know we have our own dialogue going ourselves, but thought I'd drop in and comment if that's alright;

I think it is an inevitablity, America and Americanism is about more that the government in DC or the constitution, its a spiritual essence, it is the people, their culture, etc. Such has been corrupted by a government that is fiscally untenable.


Or, is it a case of too much of an early dose of English thinkers such as Locke and other Deists upon the Founding Fathers, such that the society created around this Lockean/Cartesian/Spinozan foundation (however much it genuinely is the worldview of the majority of Americans) is literally shuddering and grinding to an absolute halt? Is everything then that you mention just a symptom and not the illness itself?

The prophets of the Old Testament by no means wanted the people of God to go into captivity, but they foresaw the inevitability of it nonetheless and issued the warnings in spite of such. I empathize with this.


Feeling it too, aren't you? It's not easy living in a world gone totally delusional.

The temptation to engage in political action is tempting, but your whole argument is grounded in the premise that "its not as oppressively corrupt and exclusionary as you might think."


The time for this Age's Caesars is now, or as Harold Lamb once wrote as a title to his book on the First Crusade; for ''Iron Men and Saints".

It seems you feel that the biggest obstacle to political engagement is one's own pessimism. I find this novel idea fascinating, but am also tempted to call it naive. However, since you boast more actual political experience than myself, I suppose I will keep your suggestions under consideration. For now.

Don't dismiss things altogether. That's all the more reason why I believe we should resume our discussions soon, If you're willing.
#14915783
“I think it is an inevitablity, America and Americanism is about more that the government in DC or the constitution, its a spiritual essence, it is the people, their culture, etc.

Or, is it a case of too much of an early dose of English thinkers such as Locke and other Deists upon the Founding Fathers, such that the society created around this Lockean/Cartesian/Spinozan foundation is literally shuddering and grinding to an absolute halt?

I think you need to keep in mind that "America" was founded to be a new and improved ROME. Which is what it has become. They sort of jumped the gun with Kennedy, he never played Caesar. I would say Trump is the first President to seek the position of "Emporer." Where's Brutus when you need him?

Zam :smokin:
#14915895
Oxymandias wrote:I find that interesting. In the Middle East and Islamic culture, struggling for your goals, defending yourself from harm (if someone slaps you in the face you don't turn the other cheek), and actively fighting injustice is encouraged in Islam (as well as overthrowing an authority figure; if a king is injust it is permissible to dispose of him). In other words, Islam encourages being an active participant in the world around you. In Christianity however, you are encouraged to be merely an observer of the world, instead of a direct participant. If you're a Christian, God will eventually damn those who have wronged him, there is no reason for his servants to do anything else other than worship him. If you're a Muslim however, by struggling against injustice and fighting for a future for yourself you are serving your Lord.

The fall of the Caliph was inevitable yet that didn't stop people from preventing it from falling apart despite the Caliphate's fate not being in their hands.


This is a silly caricature of both Christianity and Islam in my opinion and the reality is not so simplistic. The faith of the world's greatest empires which has found itself in far more nations in large numbers than Islam which is more contiguous, seems to run counter to most of your claims here.

The issue is not about resolving oneself merely to be a simple observer, but making efficient use of one's time and resources.

There is an old saying in the U.S., that is relevant here:

"Don't waste time propping up a dead horse."

Oxymandias wrote: Going into politics is risky and you may (heck, you're nearly guaranteed) not get that much in return for your efforts but the highs are really rewarding. You truly feel like your making progress, that you're impacting the world in some way. Politics is really easy to screw up but when you get it right, you achieve so much. That is my main goal in writing to you like this.


Thanks.

Oxymandias wrote:America, thankfully for you, is such a government and so the government still wants to benefit the population despite all the actions it has taken. This means that, while the American political sphere is corrupt, it still is accessible to most of the population and the political sphere still values public input and the doors to political power are still open to those who want it.


I think we have different perceptions regarding "democratic regimes." We have had one here a long time now, and i question whether the benefits outweigh the drawbacks at the most basic level of human quality.

I would argue that they don't.

Oxymandias wrote:That pretty much wraps up my reasoning. I like watching interesting things happen.


Well you may just be a sadist. ;)

annatar1914 wrote:Or, is it a case of too much of an early dose of English thinkers such as Locke and other Deists upon the Founding Fathers, such that the society created around this Lockean/Cartesian/Spinozan foundation (however much it genuinely is the worldview of the majority of Americans) is literally shuddering and grinding to an absolute halt? Is everything then that you mention just a symptom and not the illness itself?


I would agree. I have actually written academic papers on Locke's negative influence on political theory. Perhaps I can send them to you as we are on those sort of terms.

annatar1914 wrote:Feeling it too, aren't you? It's not easy living in a world gone totally delusional.


I am doing my best to ameliorate the effects in my own life. ;)

annatar1914 wrote:The time for this Age's Caesars is now, or as Harold Lamb once wrote as a title to his book on the First Crusade; for ''Iron Men and Saints".


It would definitely seem to follow Spengler's timeline now wouldn't it? :D

Zamuel wrote:I think you need to keep in mind that "America" was founded to be a new and improved ROME. Which is what it has become. They sort of jumped the gun with Kennedy, he never played Caesar. I would say Trump is the first President to seek the position of "Emporer." Where's Brutus when you need him?


I tend to see Trump as the Gracchi of our era, not the Caesar. Trump's movement is akin to those populists who were going to "Drain the Roman Swamp" and were murdered by the Senate, which set the stage for the coming Caesars.

Trump is Gracchus, not Augustus.

Assuming the parallels hold, of course.

annatar1914 wrote:That's all the more reason why I believe we should resume our discussions soon, If you're willing.


Absolutely! My next email to you is basically done, I will be sending it soon.

Possibly this weekend. we'll see.
#14915913
Victoribus Spolia wrote:I tend to see Trump as the Gracchi of our era, not the Caesar. Trump's movement is akin to those populists who were going to "Drain the Roman Swamp" and were murdered by the Senate, which set the stage for the coming Caesars. Trump is Gracchus, not Augustus. Assuming the parallels hold, of course.

They won't, as I said "new & Improved." Trump "Want's" to be Emperor, that ain't happening either. But living at this time, when the old pattern diverges, is very interesting.

We're about to see capitalism broken to harness. We still need it, but it's become a rebellious stallion that thinks it can drag us about willy-nilly. That process is pretty well in hand. The question is ? Where do we want it to take us once it is dociled (and who's driving).
#14915916
Zamuel wrote:We're about to see capitalism broken to harness. We still need it, but it's become a rebellious stallion that thinks it can drag us about willy-nilly. That process is pretty well in hand. The question is ? Where do we want it to take us once it is dociled (and who's driving).


I say we shoot the rider.
#14915925
Victoribus Spolia wrote:I say we shoot the rider.

I'm sure that will be a popular minority opinion. But civil war is not an option capitalism can afford. Neither can it jump the fence and escape. It's a process, it will take some time. But then, Rome wasn't built in a day.

Zam 8)
#14915931
Zamuel wrote: But then, Rome wasn't built in a day.


It didn't collapse in a day either, so I don't expect a head injury from a falling brick.

As the Brits would say;

"Keep Calm and Carry On."

The day of Anarcho-Capitalism will dawn soon enough. ;)
#14915970
Victoribus Spolia wrote:The day of Anarcho-Capitalism will dawn soon enough. ;)

No, I'm afraid it won't. Let's see how briefly I can explain why.

Consider an egg, a fertilized one. It starts as a few living cells that multiply and diversify. As they diversify the living organism becomes more complex. This process continues. Developing complexity is the pattern of all life. Humans are the "crown of creation" because they are the most complicated life form on this planet. When we reached the pinnacle of our complexity, we developed machines to continue the process for us.

Anarcho-Capitalism does not add complexity to the human dynamic, it simplifies it. As attractive as that may be, it would be an aberration that ends progressive human development. That is not natures path. It's not what "happens" to eggs.

To be brief, Humanity has reached the first stage of gestation. We have "filled the world." And it's time to move on to phase two. More complication, which will take us off this planet and into development that at this point we really can't even conceive.

So, sorry, no ancap. It's an interesting concept, but it's time is passed.

OK … that's a fairly short explanation. 8)

Zam
#14915994
@Victoribus Spolia

This is a silly caricature of both Christianity and Islam in my opinion and the reality is not so simplistic. The faith of the world's greatest empires which has found itself in far more nations in large numbers than Islam which is more contiguous, seems to run counter to most of your claims here.

The issue is not about resolving oneself merely to be a simple observer, but making efficient use of one's time and resources.

There is an old saying in the U.S., that is relevant here:

"Don't waste time propping up a dead horse."


The post was intended to be partially chauvinistic as a way to develop a sense of irony. I wasn't exposing Islamic superiority over Christianity or making it seem that Islam was better at empire-building than Christianity (both are actually pretty good foundations), I was simply pretending to be one of those turtleneck wearing historians who try to explain the reason for the West's success over the Middle East in a way which discusses Western culture in great deal (i.e. how I went into detail in regards to the theology of Islam) and uses stereotypes about the other culture as a way to contrast the other (i.e. my really simplistic take on Christianity) due to not actually knowing a lot about the other culture (I really don't know much about Christianity irl).

Also I am offended by your implication that engagement in politics is a waste of time. There is loads of money to be made from it. /s

I think we have different perceptions regarding "democratic regimes." We have had one here a long time now, and i question whether the benefits outweigh the drawbacks at the most basic level of human quality.

I would argue that they don't.


I agree. I think local democracy (at a town level, urban cities are a different issue) is actually beneficial however since people are much more better judges of character when they're judging someone they know. People are also more likely to elect someone good given that often in local elections, the elected candidate is a person who has helped improve the community in some shape or form. Also at a local level, you can see the effects of the decisions of the local government almost immediately.

At a national level however, things are more risky. Decisions have large-reaching consequences and you often don't see the effect of them for years, even decades after they were first implemented. A screw-up in the government can make the entire country fall apart, a miscalculation can cause an entire economy to collapse, and with the wrong person in power, a nation is doomed. Because of this, I think that those who are fit to rule should be able to. The government should be organized by merit with only the best of the best at the top. Only people who know what they're doing should have government positions. Only an good economist can run an economy, only a good general can run a military, only a good diplomat can make a good foreign policy, only a good bureaucrat can organize a bureaucracy, only a good sociologist can make good social policies, and only a good ruler can rule a nation.

I tend to see Trump as the Gracchi of our era, not the Caesar. Trump's movement is akin to those populists who were going to "Drain the Roman Swamp" and were murdered by the Senate, which set the stage for the coming Caesars.

Trump is Gracchus, not Augustus.

Assuming the parallels hold, of course.


Interesting. I have a suggestion, I think that, if you were to ever go into politics you should focus primarily on becoming the president's adviser. Don't expose allegiance to Trump or anything like that, that will surely get you killed when Trump is disposed of. Simply assert yourself as solely the president's adviser regardless of who that president is and constantly switch loyalties. If there is a rebellion against Trump in the US government or the deep state which secretly pulls the strings, support it. It will allow you to become the Aristotle you want to be since you will continue being an adviser and thus, continue to influence the next government after the current one.
#14915998
Very enjoyable and informative thread. I wonder if @Victoribus Spolia is not guided by the same problem I had. I had trouble finding great men in history that were also great fathers and husbands. I always felt I had to choose one or the other.
I therefore found comfort in the knowledge my ideas would permeate the thought of others regardless of how hard I tried to do so. If the idea is valid, then it will spread. You just can’t be concerned about a time limit or getting credit.
I have seen some evidence of this being valid, but not proven.
Anyway, it is just another choice to make. Not necessarily right or wrong.
#14916683
Zamuel wrote:No, I'm afraid it won't. Let's see how briefly I can explain why.

To be brief, Humanity has reached the first stage of gestation. We have "filled the world." And it's time to move on to phase two. More complication, which will take us off this planet and into development that at this point we really can't even conceive.

So, sorry, no ancap. It's an interesting concept, but it's time is passed.

OK … that's a fairly short explanation


Why should anyone believe that fairy tale scenario of increasing complexity and ad infinitum human progress?

I find this futurist worldview quite baffling, especially when people posit such as a more realistic outcome than the collapse that most, if honest, would admit as coming on the horizon. Most average joes can "feel" this omnious sense about the future and numbers along without historical precedent seems to support their instincts.

We are not going forward to Startrek, we are going back to Braveheart via the Road Warrior or the Terminator.

buckle up buttercup, its going to be a bumpy ride.

Oxymandias wrote:I am offended by your implication that engagement in politics is a waste of time. There is loads of money to be made from it.


Money has nothing to do with it, otherwise my opting to farm and write books would make little sense. Those aren't exactly careers which are known for being "lucrative." :lol:

Oxymandias wrote:If there is a rebellion against Trump in the US government or the deep state which secretly pulls the strings, support it. It will allow you to become the Aristotle you want to be since you will continue being an adviser and thus, continue to influence the next government after the current one.


I'll keep that in mind. ;)

One Degree wrote:Very enjoyable and informative thread. I wonder if @Victoribus Spolia is not guided by the same problem I had. I had trouble finding great men in history that were also great fathers and husbands. I always felt I had to choose one or the other.


Well I won't lie to you, that is part of it.

One Degree wrote:I therefore found comfort in the knowledge my ideas would permeate the thought of others regardless of how hard I tried to do so. If the idea is valid, then it will spread. You just can’t be concerned about a time limit or getting credit.


Well its not about trying hard or not trying hard, its about the degree to which I am going to "put myself out there" and "go out on a limb."

I suppose I have come to prefer serving in the artillery rather than on the front lines (intellectually speaking).

I do agree though, even if I don't see the fruit of my labor in my lifetime I still maintain that the truth will prevail in the end.

One Degree wrote:Anyway, it is just another choice to make. Not necessarily right or wrong.


Perhaps.
#14916687
Victoribus Spolia wrote:Why should anyone believe that fairy tale scenario of increasing complexity and ad infinitum human progress?

Nature is quite transparent, observe it. -And- Human history is a long story of complication piled upon complication.

I find this futurist worldview quite baffling, especially when people posit such as a more realistic outcome than the collapse that most, if honest, would admit as coming on the horizon.

Again, "collapse" has been on the horizon ever since recorded history began. Before that it bred superstition.

Most average joes can "feel" this omnious sense about the future and numbers along without historical precedent seems to support their instincts.

The future is unknown, fear of the unknown is a natural human instinct. Those without a realistic comprehension of current events are indeed paranoid. This is perfectly normal.

Zam
#14916694
Zamuel wrote:Nature is quite transparent, observe it. -And- Human history is a long story of complication piled upon complication.


I don't see that. I see the same mistakes that destroyed civilizations in the past, repeating in our own.

Zamuel wrote:Again, "collapse" has been on the horizon ever since recorded history began. Before that it bred superstition.


That is not really what I am referring to. I am not speaking about an esoteric theory of "eschatology in general."

I am referring to a real and tangible collapse of our current order, of our current western civilization.

Zamuel wrote:The future is unknown, fear of the unknown is a natural human instinct. Those without a realistic comprehension of current events are indeed paranoid. This is perfectly normal.


So basically, you think things are going to keep on truckin' as normal into a future of technology and progress. Got it. But you still haven't told me why you believe that.

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