Is it true that the required Muslim prayer end with "Christians and Jews are contemptible"? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

An atheist-free area for those of religious belief to discuss religious topics.

Moderator: PoFo Agora Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please. Religious topics may be discussed here or in The Agora. However, this forum is intended specifically as an area for those with religious belief to discuss religion without threads being derailed by atheist arguments. Please respect that. Political topics regarding religion belong in the Religion forum in the Political Issues section.
#14918248
No. That's absolute rubbish, and a lie. Where do you hear such bullshit? That might be part of the problem.

Muhammad's Promise to the Monks of St. Catherine's Monastery Until the End of Days :
"This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.

Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.

No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses.

Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.

No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray. Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants.

No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world)."

http://www.ptwf.org/index.php?option=co ... Itemid=526
#14918277
Godstud wrote:That's not evidence that this is all Muslims, or even a particular sect., let alone ANY Muslims, atall.

You have presented no evidence that your question is even founded in reality.

Note that I realized that I had left out the word 'Bible". I edited it in above.

I would wish that you would have taken my word for it, that I saw it like I said.
I have no idea how biased the source was, probably some. But, enough to just lie, certainly maybe.

Your 1st part is confusing to me. Are you saying that different Muslim sects have different required prayers?
#14918298
Most people that follow a religion feel people that follow other religions or no religion are contemptible though. They preach acceptance and togetherness, but ultimately behind closed doors they feel others are suckers/morons/whatever for not following their particular religion.

It's true of any belief system, even those that are not religion. For example, Vegans most certainly look down on vegetarians, and even more down on the rest of us that rightly eat meat because it's part of our evolutionary heritage (it's the reason we have bigger brains).

Ultimately, this claim about Muslims, true or not doens't really matter.
#14918308
@Steve_American

Recently I saw a claim on line that the prayer that all Muslims must recite 5 times a day ends with something like "Christians and Jews are contemptible".

I'm asking you-all, is this true?


No, not really. But if you happened to find yourself in a more Salafist mosque in friday prayers, you'll find them praying for god to destroy all their enemies.
Whom are everyone from Christians to Jews to Shia Muslims to heretics and apostates and pagans and really everyone who they happened not to like.
But those type of mosques are generally speaking found in Salafi and Wahabi areas not everywhere.

Are you saying that different Muslim sects have different required prayers?

To some extent, yes.
The moves are somewhat the same, but the prayers (i.e whats said with them) are different since the religious and spiritual foundations of various sects differ from each other. i.e why many rightfully so consider some sects entirely different religions.
#14918342
anasawad wrote:No, not really. But if you happened to find yourself in a more Salafist mosque in friday prayers, you'll find them praying for god to destroy all their enemies.

This is fairly common in many Christian congregations too. It's not an exclusively Muslim thing.

Zam 8)
#14918350
Zamuel wrote:This is fairly common in many Christian congregations too. It's not an exclusively Muslim thing.

Zam 8)


Really? I have literally never seen or experienced or even heard of such a thing. But, those who have no religion are often ignorant even of not only why some are motivated, but are misinformed of basic facts as well. And very credulous as well. I recall what Blaise Pascal said of the so-called ''skeptics'' of his day; ''They believe in the miracles of Vespasian, to avoid believing in those of Moses''.

And so it is that some strike me as believing in Bigfoot, UFO's, Extraterrestrials, Evolution, etc... A great deal of faith involved, ironically.
#14918373
annatar1914 wrote:Really? I have literally never seen or experienced or even heard of such a thing.

This really doesn't surprise me pilgrim. The tradition goes way, back to revolutionary days here in America, to before the time when we became an independent nation. Allow me to offer a more recent, "Official" prayer, it's short and sweet.

"Almighty and most merciful Father, we humbly beseech Thee, of Thy great goodness, to restrain these immoderate rains with which we have had to contend. Grant us fair weather for Battle. Graciously hearken to us as soldiers who call upon Thee that, armed with Thy power, we may advance from victory to victory, and crush the oppression and wickedness of our enemies and establish Thy justice among men and nations."

Ring any bells ? No ? Try this on then, it's a little older, but very American.



Zam :*(
#14918451
Each Muslim sect has differences in how often they observe daily prayers and what words/behaviors they say or do, but unless it's a hardcore Salafist mosque, Muslims won't be expected to say anything special about any other group of people. The prayers are intended for Allah, and most Muslim sects would agree that adding in politics would not only be blasphemous in the act of worship itself, but would dirty the worshiper.

I know the above because I have personally interacted with, taught, tutored, and been friends with, literally, dozens of Arab-speaking Muslim students and friends from countries ranging from Morocco to Libya to Egypt, and from Turkey to Saudi Arabia to Afghanistan. Even the Saudi students never said they had to, or were expected to, say shit about Jews and Christians in mosque during prayers. Again, I know this because I was curious about their beliefs and practices and over the years I've asked many of my friends, colleagues, and students (when appropriate) questions about these things.
#14918503
Godstud wrote:I still see no evidence that any Muslims end their prayer with, "Christians and Jews are contemptible", so this whole thread is a big "What if" fantasy.

It seems that you are totally correct.
I apologize to you-all for posting this bit of right wing [I assume] nonsense.
I hope you can forgive me and we can move on to find the truth on other questions.
#14918527
Godstud wrote:I still see no evidence that any Muslims end their prayer with, "Christians and Jews are contemptible", so this whole thread is a big "What if" fantasy.

And a stupid one at that. The prophet singled out both Jews and Christians for their affinity with Islam. The idea of a Muslim prayer outing them is in direct confrontation with the words and instructions of the prophet. Isn't it?

Zam
#14918535
Zamuel wrote:And a stupid one at that. The prophet singled out both Jews and Christians for their affinity with Islam. The idea of a Muslim prayer outing them is in direct confrontation with the words and instructions of the prophet. Isn't it?

Zam

I don't think so. Why do I think that?
IIRC, there was a book by Sam Harris that I read about 20 years ago.
Anyway I read this book. I said that to understand his take on Islam one needed to read the actual words of the Quran.
It had a long passage abut 4 pages long that it claimed was a translation of the Quran.
In it there were several places where it said Christians and Jews were/are contemptible. Several places in just 4 pages.
There were other pages quoted. They also said similar things.
The Quran like the christian in full of contradictory passages. If I understand right.
I don't read Arabic. I have to rely on others.
#14918538
Rancid wrote:Most people that follow a religion feel people that follow other religions or no religion are contemptible though. They preach acceptance and togetherness, but ultimately behind closed doors they feel others are suckers/morons/whatever for not following their particular religion.

It's true of any belief system, even those that are not religion. For example, Vegans most certainly look down on vegetarians, and even more down on the rest of us that rightly eat meat because it's part of our evolutionary heritage (it's the reason we have bigger brains).

Ultimately, this claim about Muslims, true or not doens't really matter.


This ⬆️ is what ‘common sense’ looks like. If you choose to belong to any group, then you are admitting an opposition to any group of a different belief. All demands for acceptance of one belief over all others is equally wrong. Whether that belief is in Allah or universal human rights is irrelevant.
#14918568
Zamuel wrote:This really doesn't surprise me pilgrim. The tradition goes way, back to revolutionary days here in America, to before the time when we became an independent nation. Allow me to offer a more recent, "Official" prayer, it's short and sweet.


Ring any bells ? No ? Try this on then, it's a little older, but very American.



Zam :*(


In your self-referential closed circle of thought it's no surprise that you reached out to another infidel for, not a real prayer, but a mockery of one, made up by Samuel Clemens.

As for the first prayer, that is an extempraneous and ad hoc historically conditioned prayer, that was not actually part of any regular liturgy or regular common worship service at that time or thereafter.

So again I feel justified in saying not only is there a lot of pretty historically illiterate secularists and infidels out there, but also that the ways of people who have a spiritual faith that attempts to illumine their lives and issues of ultimate concern, they are alien to this sort of person.
#14918591
annatar1914 wrote:In your self-referential closed circle of thought it's no surprise that you reached out to another infidel for, not a real prayer, but a mockery of one, made up by Samuel Clemens.

As for the first prayer, that is an extempraneous and ad hoc historically conditioned prayer, that was not actually part of any regular liturgy or regular common worship service at that time or thereafter.

I'm guessing you're not familiar with independent protestant churches, much less Pentecostal and Evangelical ones. These churches are "Non-Ceremonial & Non-Liturgical" often completely extemporaneous and VERY popular in the USA. (like I said, they go back to pre American Revolutionary times. I guess your local church missed out on the 1st and 2nd "Great Awakenings"

The first Prayer was composed by a senior army chaplain and distributed for use in services and to individual Army personnel. (it worked to.)

Twain's "Prayer" evidences his response to the very popular custom of church invocations of death and destruction upon their enemies at that time.

I'm sorry if the facts disturb your idyllic view of Christian morality, but Christians are as blood thirsty and hysterical as the worst of the Islamic Jihadi preachers.

Zam :angel:
#14918605
Steve_American wrote:IIRC, there was a book by Sam Harris that I read about 20 years ago.


That's odd, since Sam Harris only got as popular because of 9/11 happening, he was able to capitalize on the subsequent Islamophobia. The first book he wrote was a few years after 9/11. But fuck that guy anyway, or anyone who thinks it's morally acceptable to use nukes against anyone or torture people.

From my personal experience of being raised by a Muslim mother - I'm an atheist! - we were taught to love all people and that's kind of why I'm completely anti-racist (except towards the Dutch because of Sab but that's by the by).

To wait on piliticians who are corrupted by the o[…]

Canadian Federal Election

Scheer is a fucking AMERICAN, and shouldn't even b[…]

And he is right too, because the UK, serving as U[…]

The melting ice of Greenland will soon reveal the […]