Godstud wrote:This is an assertion that is sheer fantasy, as no evidence of this has been provided.
Maybe my reading comprehension isn't up to Canadian snuff, but I think the OP asked a question. It didn't make an assertion--at least that's how I read it as an American. This is what I read:
Steve_American wrote:Recently I saw a claim on line that the prayer that all Muslims must recite 5 times a day ends with something like "Christians and Jews are contemptible".
I'm asking you-all, is this true?
If it is, [and I said IF], then it doesn't look good for the religion of peace.
I took it to mean that Steve_American is asking a question. Apparently, that question is very upsetting to you. You have said such things as:
Godstud wrote:This has to do with a claim made in the original post.
The original post didn't make a claim. It mentioned seeing a claim. Again, this could be my American reading comprehension.
Godstud wrote:You still have not provided any evidence that Muslims end prayers with "Christians and Jews are contemptible".
I did not assert that Muslims end their prayers in this way. However, your histrionics got me interested. So I looked into the subject matter a bit.
Godstud wrote:The Muslim prayers mentioned do not support this, either.
All of them mention those who anger Allah, and those who have gone astray. One of them mentions the Jews who evidently anger Allah (perhaps not all of them, but some) and the Christians who have "gone astray."
So according to Quran.com, those who read from the Mohsin Khan recite the prayer (given it is an English translation) as:
Holy Quran: 1:1-7 (according to Mohsin Khan) wrote:In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful
All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists)
The Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful
The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)
You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything)
Guide us to the Straight Way
The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians)
Perhaps when some pray and think of those who earned Allah's anger, they are thinking of the Jews; and, when they think of those who have gone astray, they think of the Christians. I do not know. Steve_American apparently doesn't either. He's asking a question as far as I can tell.
Godstud wrote:The Jews do this as well(See Goy/Goyim). What has that to do with anything?
Well, it depends upon how you interpret it. Some people think the terms goy, goyim, or gentile are innocuous. In biblical times, however, it implied polytheism and hence a sort of "heathen" status. So it could be construed to be disparaging too.
Godstud wrote:The rest of your post is hilarious anti-islamic ravings, blatant falsehoods, and more of your boy-crush stuff on PM Trudeau. So cute.
I don't believe I said anything anti-Islamic. I certainly want to be clear to Muslims on the forum that in spite of Godstud's peculiar interpretation of language, I did not intend in anyway to offend Muslims, Islam or to express an anti-Islamic view. I did, however, cite someone who took a more militant interpretation here:
me wrote:This guy seems to think that Muslim clerics pray nasty prayers: http://raymondibrahim.com/2011/11/07/mu ... s-of-hate/
Nobody has bothered to provide a substantive response to it. I didn't say I agreed or disagreed with it. I simply posted it to note that Godstud says that there is virtually no evidence of any antipathy in Islam toward Jews or Christians.
Godstud has gone on to say:
Godstud wrote:Note: I can tell @blackjack21 has quite the boy-crush on Trudeau, though.
I do not have a "boy-crush" on Justin Trudeau; although, I would stipulate that he does indeed look rather boyish even though he is a grown man.
Godstud wrote:Still not supporting the OP. Try harder, little man.
The OP is a question, not an assertion of fact. It is asking for answers from people who might know. I'm about 5'9" and 210, so I'm not that tall, and altogether too fat. That's common among Americans, you know.
Godstud wrote:These are prayers by idiots who are not representative of Muslims, and these are individual prayers, and not ones meant for many. Really, you're slacking off, @blackjack21,. Your arguments and posts are pathetic.
Well, let's let the record reflect that you are the one calling some Muslims idiots in this thread, and not me.
Godstud wrote:How is that related to the OP?
The Quran (and the Bible and the Torah) are fairly critical of vices. Fundamentalist Muslims, Christians and Jews take bibilical proscriptions very seriously. Let's envisage an OP where the question is, "I heard that Muslims pray that homosexuals are contemptible, is that true?" Then, if we cite the Quran 1:6, and it says:
The Holy Quran: 1:6 as interpreted in English wrote:Sahih International: Guide us to the straight path -
Pickthall: Show us the straight path,
Yusuf Ali: Show us the straight way,
Shakir: Keep us on the right path.
Muhammad Sarwar: (Lord), guide us to the right path,
Mohsin Khan: Guide us to the Straight Way
Arberry: Guide us in the straight path,
Since modern culture refers to heterosexuals as "straight" and non-heterosexuals otherwise; and, since the Quran condemns sodomy, would it be wrong to say that Muslims praying 5 times a day are also praying to be set on a straight path that does not include homosexuality?
Godstud wrote:Nothing you spoke of supports this fantasy scenario and only demonstrates your hatred of anything Islamic, and your homo-erotic boy-crush on PM Trudeau.
I did not claim to hate Islam, and I do not believe I said anything hateful about Islam; nor did I intend to. My commentary on Justin Trudeau should have been construed as sarcastic, but apparently that was not how you interpreted it.
Godstud wrote:Just for you, @blackjack21. Enjoy.
Thank you. It depicts Trudeau with a native American tattoo. He, and the rest of the Trudeau family, are apparently honorary members of the Haida tribe. It seems Trudeau is quite a fan of other cultures.
Godstud wrote:"It is said..."
Are you saying that Muslims do not pray the first chapter of the Quran? Is that untrue? Or do you just think it's funny?
Godstud wrote:More Trudeau fan-boy stuff that's off-topic? You must really have the hots for the Canadian PM.
Are all Americans so infatuated with PM Trudeau?
I just find the Canadian Multicultural Supremacist thing a bit of a counter-intuitive Gordian knot. In my opinion, Justin Trudeau is something of a parody of that vein of thought, although I think he doesn't intend to be a joke.
Godstud wrote:This is an assertion that is sheer fantasy, as no evidence of this has been provided. You still have not provided any evidence that Muslims end prayers with "Christians and Jews are contemptible". The Muslim prayers mentioned do not support this, either.
They mention that Muslims are asking Allah to lead them on the straight path, not the path that angers Allah (as the Jews do) or the path of those who have gone astray (as the Christians have). Some people may interpret that as Muslims deprecating the ways of Jews and Christians as contemptible.
Let me reiterate one of your statements again:
Godstud wrote:The rest of your post is hilarious anti-islamic ravings, blatant falsehoods, and more of your boy-crush stuff on PM Trudeau. So cute.
Keep in mind, I did not write the OP. I did not indicate that I thought Muslims prayed that Jews or Christians were contemptible. Nor did I criticize Islam in any way. Although, I did intend to rile you up with Justin Trudeau's overly-dramatic and seemingly insincere embraces of other cultures and religions. Considering the feelings of Sikhs and Muslims towards each other, I find it utterly peculiar that he embraces both. For some reason, in Western culture that is okay. Yet, if he were to wear a Nazi uniform on one hand and then a Soviet uniform on the other hand, that would bother people in the West for reasons that are beyond me when considered in conjunction with the embrace of two sides of often warring factions in other cultures.
Zamuel wrote:The Quran does have warnings against Jews and Christians who approach Islam with a "Bad attitude" and rightly so. But it recognizes those faiths and their true adherents as benign and worthy of respect.
Zam
Just for the record, I've never said otherwise.
Justin Trudeau is a cowboy too!
Look! Cowboys and Indians getting along!
And cowboys and black people!
He reminds me of Woody Allen in Zelig...
"We have put together the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics."
-- Joe Biden