[One Degree]

Democrats are so confused.
“Trump is destroying the economy based upon low paid workers.”
“Trump is trying to stop low paid workers from entering the country”
“Trump is racist for not supporting taking advantage of low paid workers “
“How dare Trump expect Americans to get high wages for making our own stuff?”

Edit: I doubt many of you remember an America where factory work meant “20 years and retired”.

[Steve_American]

We are on page 3 now.
Still nobody has come forward to explain why it is totally OK for the US to flagrantly violate one of the 2 Cardinal rules under the gold standard system and keep running massive foreign trade deficits, year after year, forever.
But, it is not at all OK for the US to violate the other Cardinal rule under the god standard system that says don't keep running budget deficits [which are paid for by borrowing dollars].
Why can the US violate one but not the other?

[Godstud]

US left the gold standard in 1971.

http://www.businessinsider.com/history- ... rd-2015-12

[Steve_American]

US left the gold standard in 1971.

http://www.businessinsider.com/history- ... rd-2015-12

I don't understand your point with your comment or with your link.

Yes, I know that the dollar is a fiat currency.
This should mean that the deficit doesn't matter. And yet it does. Every politician talks as if we still need to keep the national debt small. MMT points out that the national debt simply represents the amount of dollars that the Private Sector [the American people and comp.] have been paid in the past for their goods and services. The national debt can always be paid and the interest on it can also always be paid with new borrowing or with newly created dollars. So, why do we want to take this money away from the American people? See my other threads for more on this.

[Godstud]

You are ascribing properties of a gold standard to the American economy, and saying they're breaking rules that no longer apply. That's the point. I thought it was obvious.

[blackjack21]

What is it that Republicans love about recessions.

It makes labor cheaper for one, just like illegal immigration and cheap Chinese goods. What makes the establishment so loyal to trade with a communist oligarchy? Maybe something in your tagline?

Ultimately, the United States cannot continue a trading relationship like the one we have with China stealing intellectual property willy nilly. It's time to put a stop to it come what may. Recessions are a fact of life, and we're a bit overdue for one now.

The interesting thing will be what happens to China. In an effort to save face, they are putting themselves in a perilous position. They don't need to maintain such a huge surplus relative to the US when other trading partners are willing to accept large deficits. How will China keep the property bubble going when the stock market is falling. This is how it ended in Japan back in the 1980s too.

[Steve_American]

:lol: You are ascribing properties of a gold standard to the American economy, and saying they're breaking rules that no longer apply. That's the point. I thought it was obvious.

I think it would have been if you had not argued in my climate change thread that deficits do matter.
That is what confused me.
Are you now saying that deficits don't matter?
Just like a massive trade deficit doesn't matter.
Both because the dollar is a fiat currency.

[Godstud]

I am not arguing on a climate change thread about economic deficits. Stick to the topic.

[Steve_American]

I am not arguing on a climate change thread about economic deficits. Stick to the topic.

It was my thread. I get to say what the topic is.
The subject length is very limited or I could make it more explicit.
The thread had 2 elements starting in the very 1st original Post.
1] A huge methane release from the Arctic [sea and land] can kill every human on earth. Note the "can" not will.
2] One way to pay for programs to stop this release from occurring is to just create cash. Better to risk or get inflation than extinction.

Again it was my thread and I should get to decide what is on topic and I started it with both elements.

[Godstud]

We may already have passed peak Trump
What mattered most was not German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s measured response – “We can make our independent policies and make independent decisions” – but rather the response of the U.S. Senate, which in anticipation of the summit voted 97-2 in favour of a motion affirming support for NATO.

And in a further rebuke, the Senate voted 88-11 on Wednesday afternoon on a motion criticizing the Trump administration’s tariff policy. These non-binding motions are only first steps, but they are meaningful shots across the President’s bow.

All of this comes even as the Trump administration announced a further US$200-billion in impending tariffs against China, which if implemented could mark the end of any meaningful trade between the world’s two largest economies, since China would certainly respond with matching countertariffs.

Mr. Trump has pulled the United States out of a Pacific trade agreement, threatens to cancel the North American free-trade agreement, has imposed tariffs on steel and aluminium entering the United States and is threatening to extend those tariffs to the auto sector. In short, he has launched a trade war between the United States and the rest of the world.

The world is fighting back with retaliatory tariffs, and those tariffs are starting to hurt. John Murphy, senior vice-president of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, said a new tariff by Mexico on dairy products was a “disaster” for dairy farmers. “It’s a perfect storm spawned in large part by tariffs unleashed in Washington,” he tweeted.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion ... eak-trump/

[Albert]

I do not think they can do anything about it. He has the executive authority to dictate trade policy. I do not know if Congress and Senate have outright ability to amend those powers but that is another matter.

All I see here is established politicians protesting. Hopefully they will be voted out this midterm.

[Godstud]

His own party is putting the brakes on his stupidity... finally.


Still, it appears as though the damage is done...

- Trump’s imposed tariffs on China include health care equipment such as CT scanners, EKGs and X-ray tubes, according to USA Today. Increase in medical equipment translates into higher costs for health service providers and thus patients. Dozens of drugs and medical devices — such as epinephrine and insulin — are projected to spike in price.

The New York Times News Service reported that if these tariffs take effect,they would cost the medical device industry up to $1.5 billion each year, with the higher cost largely affecting baby boomers, who are big recipients of hip and knee replacements as well as insulin.

- Batteries imported from China will go up 23.8% in price. About 34% of lithium batteries sold in the U.S. are China imports, said the NRF-CTA report.

- Similar to TVs,83% of personal computer monitors sold in the U.S. are from China. This means prices on computer monitors are predicted to go up 23.5 percent, according to the NRF-CTA report.

-Levi Strauss has strongly opposed Trump’s trade barriers, unhappy with the fact that they may have to pay a 25% import tax as a result of the EU’s retaliatory tariffs against the U.S.

“We support open markets and free trade where everyone plays by the rules,” Levi Strauss said in a statement. “Unilateral tariff impositions risk retaliation and destabilizing the global economy, in which case American brands, workers and consumers will ultimately suffer.”

- U.S. solar installations doubled in 2016, according to CNBC, meaning there were over 1.3 million solar installations across the U.S. early last year. Not only are solar panel homes cost efficient, saving each home thousands of dollars yearly, they reduce each household’s carbon footprint — equal to “taking a car off the road,” per home.

The Solar Energy Industries Association predicts the new tax could cost as many as 23,000 U.S. jobs, as higher costs prompt homeowners and businesses to put off solar installations. (One out of every 10 jobs in the solar industry.)

Energy marketplace EnergySage estimated the taxes would add $500 to $1,000 to the cost of the typical home installation project.

[Albert]

They are probably protesting because their buddies in big business are hurting. Ship production back to the states and bring those jobs back to American people who you have robed.

[Godstud]

@Albert You do realize that the down side of this is much more expensive products, and the unemployment is already exceptionally low. Does US really need those jobs, or do people need more affordable products?

If US unemployment was high, I might see this as an argumen. It's not, however. Americans are not in need of more low-paying jobs in manufacturing.

[Albert]

@Albert You do realize that the down side of this is much more expensive products, and the unemployment is already exceptionally low. Does US really need those jobs, or do people need more affordable products?

If US unemployment was high, I might see this as an argumen. It's not, however. Americans are not in need of more low-paying jobs in manufacturing.

Yes, those high paying jobs at Walmart are amazing.

Economy will balance itself out or can be encouraged to do so with government intervention. Also the cheap labour in China has not made those products cheaper, cheap labour goes into profit margins of big corps it does not translate into lower prices for goods. That is why a shirt it Thailand is 5 bucks whilst in Canada 40. Where are the promised cheaper goods, in the pockets of some few bald white men?

The whole economy needs to be restructured, big business monopoly model that the western economies have evolved into needs to be dismantled. The economy need to return to where majority of it is compositioned of small to medium size business. Walmart in every town can be replaced by 5-10 small to medium sized business that will provide better wages, services and goods.

I'm sure Trump is not thinking in this direction, I do not think he is even capable to do so. But so far he is moving things in direction I like to see. That is hurting the globalist big business model.

[Godstud]

Yes, those Walmart jobs are high-paying. Just like the jobs that will be created by these tariffs.

You still haven't explained WHY USA needs these jobs, when the unemployment rate is already so low... Should I expect a reply or are you avoiding it?

You think this isn't going to hurt the USA, but you are sadly mistaken. The rest of the world is still trading and all the USA is doing is cutting itself off from trade. It's going to cause more pain to itself than anyone else.

Trump does not think. He reacts. He's an egomaniac.

[One Degree]

People are happier working 16 hour days for $5 an hour in a business they own than they are working for $10 an hour for Walmart. Economic theories do not care about individual happiness, and therefore are not really an argument about what people should choose.

[SolarCross]

You do realize that the down side of this is much more expensive products, and the unemployment is already exceptionally low. Does US really need those jobs, or do people need more affordable products?

If US unemployment was high, I might see this as an argumen. It's not, however. Americans are not in need of more low-paying jobs in manufacturing.

Other than that manufacturing jobs aren't necessarily low paying especially compared with retail jobs what you say is correct. Though while the US as a whole has low unemployment specific regions like the rustbelt might well have local job shortages from the manufacturing that went to China. It was the rustbelt that voted to MAGA, Trump would be letting them down if he did not help them. Another thing is the trade deficit the US has with China.

China has swarms of slave labour, while the US has significant costly labour regulations. Competing with China and solving the trade deficit either means labour deregulation and lowering taxes or tarrifs on Chinese imports. Trump's base would prefer the latter I guess, it's what they voted for.

[jimjam]

The recent tax overhaul has further pumped up corporate earnings. Promises that lower tax bills for businesses would translate into higher wages ( ) have yet to materialize. Higher gas and medical care costs have eaten away at whatever gains most workers have made.

Nor are those extra profits going into business expansion. Since the first of the year, American companies including Apple, Wells Fargo and McDonald’s have announced nearly $680 billion in buybacks of their own stock, according to the research firm TrimTabs. In essence, they are directing a majority of the windfall to investors and chief executives( ), who tend to have large stock-based compensation packages.

The United States may be leading other big industrialized countries in economic growth, but its labor force does not fare well in comparison. American workers’ share of their country’s total output fell much sharper and faster than the average reported by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. The United States also had a larger proportion of low-wage workers than nearly every other member.

Hang on suckers … pretty soon America will be great again …. y'all get a red white and blue baseball hat and chief executives get the pay increase that Donald promised you.

[Rancid]

I think I'm starting to support the tarrifs. The company I work for seems to be benefiting from them.

Anyway, I find it interesting that leftist (in the American sense) are supporting free trade, and are anti-tariff. I thought American leftist hated the WTO and NAFTA?