[colliric]

@colliric



The only thing I am aware of is converting churches to mosques and even that was only within special instances having less to do with Islam and more to do with the Umayyad Dynasty. I would like sources on where you got this information and I would also like to see where this cemetery is.

Good Catholic article with a picture of the cemetery:
http://www.magdalenepublishing.org/jeru ... -prophecy/

[Oxymandias]

@colliric

I would like exactly where it is. Like, give me a google maps address or something.

Also, the article does not understand Islamic theology. Furthermore, the gate was closed due to defensive reasons. I also checked the wikipedia article for the Golden Gate and it claimed the same things you did but offered no citations at all. I would like to know exactly where you got the information that Muslims closed the gate to prevent the Messiah from going through there. Is it the article you linked? If so, I suggest you read an Islamic source rather than a Catholic talking about what they think Muslims believe. There is certainly no reason for an Islamic source to lie about such a matter.

[colliric]

@colliric

I would like exactly where it is. Like, give me a google maps address or something..

Don't be daft. The Cemetery is in front of the gate and can be seen in almost every photo of it.

And they're NOT LYING. The Defensive reason WAS to crush then Jewish hopes they could retake the land. They didn't wall up any of the other old gates. The rabbonic Jews believe the Messiah will be a military conquerer and will ride into Jerusalem to retake the old city from a foreign conquerer and establish his rule there, even today even after Israel now exists and has already retaken it.

You can find it in archeological history books written about the gate. The internet is still hit & miss sometimes.

Also, the article does not understand Islamic theology

The theology being mainly discussed is the Jewish theology concerning the gate. Naturally. The Islamics simply blocked it on them delibrately.

[Oxymandias]

@colliric

Don't be daft. The Cemetery is in front of the gate and can be seen in almost every photo of it.

I just want to get a better angle of it.

The Defensive reason WAS to crush then Jewish hopes they could retake the land.

That makes no sense given how most Muslims don't believe in such nonsense. The Golden Gate is easily accessible by anyone and isn't often used to carry troops or bring supplies to the front lines. In all the cases in which the gate was closed, it's owners just finished fighting a war and, if we consider how decentralized Islamic governance is, likely simply forgot about reopening it. The responsibility rests on the local rulers, not the government itself. Hell, the fact that the Crusaders opened the Golden Gate lead to their downfall because it was so accessible.

They didn't wall up any of the other old gates.

Mostly because those were still widely used by the public while the Golden Gate wasn't used in ages. The Golden Gate was both unused by the public contributing nothing to the cities growth (unlike the similarly vulnerable but economically important Jaffa Gate) and was extremely accessible by armies. The Caliphs may have solved this problem after rebuilding it over and over but I have no information on that. The cemetery itself probably grew naturally and out of reverence of the gate rather than disrespect.

The theology being mainly discussed is the Jewish theology concerning the gate. Naturally. The Islamics simply blocked it on them delibrately.

"The Islamics" lol

Muslims don't believe in the idea that the Dajjal will come through the Golden Gate. The only thing that is mentioned is that Dajjal will lay seige upon the entire world and this would happen no matter what. The Caliphate has no fucking reason to close their gates and they don't have the time to screw over Jews just cause. The conquerors have better things to do, like govern an empire.

Furthermore, the article does discuss Islamic theology. It's entire argument about why the Caliphate blocked the gate is based on what they think is Islamic theology. Everything about what they said about Islam is false. You cannot flippantly say "oh, naturally they blocked the gate" without explaining why it would be natural for them to block the gate and this article certainly can't explain that. You need to give me some actual sources of where you got your information from and if it's this article, then I'm sorry bud but you've screwed up.

[Beren]

I would like exactly where it is. Like, give me a google maps address or something.

How can't you get it for yourself?

[Oxymandias]

@Beren

Too lazy. Internet is being a bitch where I'm located. I have more pressing matters to attend to on the internet outside of Google maps.

[Oxymoron]

Awesomeness to the max baby, Hava Nagila motherfuckers.

[skinster]

[danholo]

Palestine has no right to exist. It is a myth, a dream that never existed in the first place. It's funny that places that do exist should be myth but mythical lands of happiness and love should not.

https://twitter.com/boufont_zak/status/1025850197291749377



I don't think you understand what 'natives' mean, zionist-dude who doesn't even live in Israel. You're not even a real zionist according to your fellow fanatics, who believe you must make aliya before you can be crowned with that awful label.

You might be correct in saying I don't know what 'native' means but I think for you native means the side you root for? I think that'd be more accurate in your case, or what do you mean? I think the Palestinians are native to the land, especially the ones who grew up there. There is no other home or land for them. It would be silly to deny this.

This doesn't discount the fact that the Jewish people are from Israel and have always mantained their connection to the holy land as the homeland of the Jews. Our history was formed there and continues to be tied to that place even today. Funny tidbit to enforce this fact is that Judaism is heavily tied to the harvest seasons in Israel. Undeniably current Israelis are native to the land. They live there, build there, create there and have families there. They love the country and land. They will fight to stay there. It doesn't matter if you don't think they're native - it's their home and treat it as such.

You also started bringing up my character then, as if it should be at all relevant to what I say but since you like to go into ad hominems, I'll indulge you because I love talking about myself:

Physically I am not native to Israel but many aspects of my life fit to the land there. It is odd, but it exists so some things are completely native to me. The people aren't - it's a mix of Arabs and Westerners, too hectic. So, I wasn't born there, but if my children were, they'd be native. I'd bring them up as Israelis, Jews, not Finns. It'd be silly to deny their right to live there in that case or their nativity.

If you want to know, I'm native to Helsinki and somewhat Finland. One of my parents isn't from here. And in fact my Finnish parent's father's family are refugees from Karelia, and the mother's from somewhere due west of here. Am I not a native then? Who decides who is native? How many generations does one need to live in a place to be considered a native or is that up to the other natives to decide? What if the other natives in that area don't have a unified culture to begin with that could be joined in the first place? Stadilaiset (Helsinki slang term for a local) say a "real" native is one who's third generation in Helsinki.

I guess that's enough to lose your connection to the mother country when family connections become more distant... no?

[Oxymandias]

@danholo

Palestine has no right to exist. It is a myth, a dream that never existed in the first place. It's funny that places that do exist should be myth but mythical lands of happiness and love should not.

If Palestine doesn't have a right to exist, so doesn't Israel. The only thing that matters here isn't who is a native and who isn't but who is more powerful than the other. Israel is more powerful than Palestinians but this power will not last. Israel's economy is highly dependent upon foreign aid. It requires billions of dollars to keep itself afloat due to a combination of geographical and political circumstances. Speaking of geography, Israel is located in a very vulnerable area that is highly accessible by anyone who shares a land border with Israel. Walls won't prevent this. Walls have been put up before, and they have always been torn down. Politically, Israel is in capable of expanding outside of it's borders or influencing it's neighbors so that it can mitigate it's geographical and economic disadvantages. Conquest into Syria or Lebanon will leave Israel extremely vulnerable to such an extent that they would be killing themselves by doing so and all it's neighbors reject contact with Israel let alone cultural and economic influence.

Furthermore, let's not forget that after the artificial regimes put into place by European powers in the MidEast fall apart, the more anti-Western ambitious rulers that will rise from their ashes will see conquering Israel as a way to gain legitimacy and prestige. To conquer Israel will be a remarkable achievement and those who thirst will power will try to take it no matter what. After US inevitably withdraws support from Israel due to troubles at home, Israel will be left defenseless and without assistance. It's economy will plummet and it will become even more xenophobic to the extent that their power will falter because of it. That will result in their demise.

[skinster]

You might be correct in saying I don't know what 'native' means

Correct, and that bit about how you're not really a zionist according to some of your hardcore ilk.

Also, Palestine already exists. It's Apartheid states that have no right to exist. History is not on your side.

[Beren]

If Palestine doesn't have a right to exist, so doesn't Israel.

Exactly, the whole thing should belong to Babylon.

[danholo]

If Palestine doesn't have a right to exist, so doesn't Israel.

That was the point, wasn't it, but happy you had a nice typing session. I was just trolling skinster.

Also, Palestine already exists.

Where?

[skinster]

Under Israel's military boot, duh.

[danholo]

Under Israel's military boot, duh.

So it only exists metaphorically? Figured.

[skinster]

zionists denying reality are much

You're getting lazy danholo, you used to argue harder before and not as weak as these days. I suppose it must get tiring having to lie constantly. Good.

[danholo]

Well Tom, I can call you Tom, right? You are a Jew but not a very knowledgeable one. Many of Jews know that Israel is a problematic place where Palestinians have come to suffer due to a multitude of reasons, but that's not the point here because you are drawing conclusions based on shoddy facts. But it is true that Israel has become increasingly paranoid and thus moved to the right wing. This we need to correct.

Also, I can show why demonstrations, that became riots, ended up in many casualties. If you'd know anything about rioting and security, you wouldn't say a word about Israel's actions during those days. Look, one has no special place in the pantheon of criticism. However, everyone has the right to defend themselves from accusations and if you don't listen to the defendant, you're just as bad as any uncivilized lynch mob. You can smear all you want but if the smears and accusations were based on untruths, one is not above criticism, but one is under assault.

You're getting lazy danholo, you used to argue harder before and not as weak as these days. I suppose it must get tiring having to lie constantly. Good.

It's true. Thanks for being attentive.

I've become lazy here, because my energy goes into work, relationships and studying. In recent weeks I've been more active, as you can see, because your twitter feed is interesting. Also, I don't lie, so it is very tiring to have a fellow board member smear my name and accuse me of things I never did. So, I love you guys, but life changes.

[skinster]

Israel is a problematic place

Agreed. I have to correct you though; Israel always been rightwing/fascist towards the natives ever since the state was created by terrorist gangs on top of Palestine, in the 1940s, via dispossession and ethnic cleansing.

[danholo]

All is fair in love and war. Dispossession and terror is what you receive when you choose war, as you and I do, every day.

[skinster]

Palestinians didn't choose war, they were merely going about their business trying to live until terrorist gangs from Europe flocked over in the 1940s and stole Palestine from them.

On topic,