Illiteracy rate in Palestine one of the lowest in the world - Page 8 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14948511
Ter wrote::lol: I have already forwarded this news to my friends who live in Israel. They have started packing their bags. Where should they leave the keys for the high-rise buildings in Tel Aviv ?
:D


To be honest with you, your country almost entirely survives off the back of the Christian-dominated Tourism industry and related Western-"protect our own travellers" funding for Israel's security and defence forces including the IDF. Luckily the Israeli Government and BIBI at least respect this fact:


Can't say the same for the other Jews though.
#14948513
Oxymandias wrote:@Ter



What they do won't change reality. Many things have happened in history that can be seen as impossible. Regardless if Israel didn't have any of the problems I talked about, that doesn't mean it will live on forever. To think that is delusional.


It is you who is delusional to think that Israel will cease to exist as a Jewish Nation.
You pile up one conspiracy theory upon another, you misinterpret economic data to suit your narrative and you grossly underestimate the will of the Israelis to survive whatever the Arabs will try to throw at them.
But keep on dreaming that Israel will become the 58th Islamic Republic.
#14948541
Ter wrote:It is you who is delusional to think that Israel will cease to exist as a Jewish Nation.

That survives on it's Tourism industry.... Which survives on the millions of dollars the visiting Christians pump into it. Which you really should be encouraging more of at this point(good for your economy) and be proud of, but as usual you won't be.

You pile up one conspiracy theory upon another, you misinterpret economic data to suit your narrative and you grossly underestimate the will of the Israelis to survive whatever the Arabs will try to throw at them


The Economic data points to the Tourism Industry being on steroids and keeping the country's economy viable. And of course the major drawcard is the Religious sites, and especially the Christian-specific religious sites.

They will survive, but as a middle-east Deputy for the United States... While Syria acts as Russia's Deputy.... I could be less polite and say "as the United States middle eastern B****" but let's keep things civil.

But keep on dreaming that Israel will become the 58th Islamic Republic.

No. Neither of you will get your way. It will be a secular state with both Jews and Arabs running it in tandem. Maybe the Jews will still nominally control it but at least others will also get their say in a democratic vote.
#14948662
@Ter

It is you who is delusional to think that Israel will cease to exist as a Jewish Nation.


Yeah cause all nations live on forever /s

You clearly don't know anything about politics if you think it's possible for a nation, especially one like Israel, to last forever.

You pile up one conspiracy theory upon another, you misinterpret economic data to suit your narrative and you grossly underestimate the will of the Israelis to survive whatever the Arabs will try to throw at them.


Except that you haven't proven that what I am saying are conspiracies or that I am misinterpreting economic data. All you have done is stayed silent and called me delusional. That's all. You have no substance to your arguments while I give you actual proof. It isn't a conspiracy theory if there is backing behind it. That's like saying a round earth is a conspiracy theory even if there is shit loads of evidence that prove it correct. It isn't a conspiracy theory in this case, it's a fact.

Furthermore, I am not underestimating their will to live nor am I saying that Arabs will take it over. Israel will make itself fall by itself. No one will be conquering it. It won't stay a Jewish nation in the process just like how Rome is no longer a Roman nation. Btw, it's very hard to put up the will to fight when you're starving and have no money to spend on the military which will be the result of all these factors. Israelis are human and are subject to natural tendencies. They won't suddenly not need to eat or pull money out of their ass.

But keep on dreaming that Israel will become the 58th Islamic Republic.


You're in denial that Israel will live on forever. Israel is a nation composed of humans like every other. There is nothing special about Israel. Israel will fall, just like Iran, just like Egypt, just like the US, just like Russia, and just like China. It is irrational for you to believe that Israel will live on forever. You're like a child who has just been told that Santa Claus doesn't exist. You're throwing a tantrum calling other people names and refusing to believe the obvious. Even without the factors I have just listed, Israel will fall one way or the other since it is a nation just like every other.

And to iterate on my point, Israel has no future. Literally even @Zionist Nationalist has stated, wisely, that Israel would be better off as an island. Even he admits that Israel is particularly geographically vulnerable. There is no way to stabilize Israel even if they do kill off every single Palestinian. There is no way for Israel to grow it's agriculture back since the damage is already done. There is no room for expansion or more colonization since Israel will literally break in two if they expanded more than they already have since Israel is already over expanded. There is no way to diversify the economy since the economy is so focused on military expenses and other related endeavors (for example, the largest industry in Israel is in surveillance) that any form of diversification would result in the weakening of the Israeli state as a whole. There is no way to make Israel more democratic since that would lead to more pressure from Palestinians to reform the Israeli state. There is no way to effectively fight against foreign invaders since Israel is preoccupied with Palestine and if someone is invading Israel, Palestinians will see this as an opportunity for a rebellion. There is literally no future for Israel as a whole.

To think otherwise is to be in denial and wallow in delusion.

@Zionist Nationalist

Israel is not a banana republic like Greece that relies on tourism for its economic survival


You're right. You rely on foreign aid instead.

Also I don't think you know what a banana republic is.
#14948683
Zionist Nationalist wrote:The Palestinian issue will be gone soon all Arabs will get tired of it and they will stop sponsoring them and than they would have to compromise
its slowly happening alredy


Which planet do you live in where any of this makes sense?
Drlee wrote::lol:

Troll much?

Do take some time and google the truth. Oh I forgot. You could not care less about the truth. In my experience few people from your neck of the woods do.


Says guy who's level of argument amounts to "Nonsense". Both me and the better Oxy put questions to you, all of which you ignored, because it's obvious you have no answers, but still post dumb shit like the above as if you're convincing anybody besides dumb zionists.

Drlee wrote:
It is true that being an Iranian does not make you wrong. It does make me deeply suspicious of the sources of information you have and the indoctrination you receive every day. How is that for honest?


And the sources of dude who lives in the empire, which funds and arms and supports politically 100% its racist little military garrison state placed on top of Palestine is likely to be so objective about this issue. :lol: How is that for honest?

Ter wrote:It is you who is delusional to think that Israel will cease to exist as a Jewish Nation.


Who's going to explain to Ter that Israel isn't a Jewish state currently - and of course won't ever be - because there's about as many non-Jews in Palestine as there are Jews and zionists.

The delusion is with you, frand. Israel cannot be a Jewish state unless the Christian, Muslim, Druze, Bedouin and Atheist Palestinians convert to Judaism. Or lunatic-state-Israel kills them all. Which I'm sure you would like, but it's just not going to happen. Israel could've got away with that decades ago maybe, around the not-that-long-ago-time when zionists stole the country from the natives, but today, nope. Keep dreaming. Israel is merely an apartheid state right now but one day people like you are going to be forced to have equality amongst all the people in the land, whether you gtfo, get killed on the way or take it politely like a good little babby who likes to share. :)
#14948705
@Drlee

It is true that being an Iranian does not make you wrong. It does make me deeply suspicious of the sources of information you have and the indoctrination you receive every day. How is that for honest?


If you're suspicious of my sources, then verify them! See for yourself whether they are right or wrong. I gave you the exact pages I found this information along with the books. This isn't information given to me since all these books are Western and found in American publications and institutions. If you have any issue with these sources, take it up to the authors and distributors of these sources, not me. I have been the most honest person in this entire argument. I have done nothing but provide backing for my arguments and addressed every concern you have had. You have not done the same for me and merely dismissed anything, regardless of it's validity, as false. You have no intellectually honesty, you only seek to create a narrative and ignore the facts at play.

Israel's economy is very strong and growing and I posted evidence to prove it. You really have to do better.


You literally posted no evidence. The only person who posted even a smidgen of evidence was Ter and even his source was a wikipedia article both irrelevant to my point and outdated. The only issue you brought up was concerning the Palestinian literacy rate which was wrong anyway since not only did you not give your own sources for your information but your claims directly contradict the sources I gave you and you merely just hand-waved it away.

I find it ironic how I am the guy living in a controlled theocracy but I can back up my arguments and give you external legitimate sources while the guys living in a liberal society can't even give me sources for their information as if you are the ones being fed propaganda. All the sources I have posted aren't Iranian ones. One of them is a book written by a Israeli whose goal was to motivate Israel to improve itself and show how dire the situation in Israel really is. Israeli books aren't even allowed in Iran. The argument that my sources are propaganda directly contradicts the actual sources I have given you.
#14948720
skinster wrote:The delusion is with you, frand. Israel cannot be a Jewish state unless the Christian, Muslim, Druze, Bedouin and Atheist Palestinians convert to Judaism. Or lunatic-state-Israel kills them all. Which I'm sure you would like, but it's just not going to happen. Israel could've got away with that decades ago maybe, around the not-that-long-ago-time when zionists stole the country from the natives, but today, nope. Keep dreaming. Israel is merely an apartheid state right now but one day people like you are going to be forced to have equality amongst all the people in the land, whether you gtfo, get killed on the way or take it politely like a good little babby who likes to share. :)


No not really, they couldn't ever have gotten away with that, at least to Christians anyway. Their tourism industry depends heavily on "The Birthplace of Jesus". They lose essential Christian Tourism bucks to main competitor Rome whenever they develop a bad reputation.

Funny thing is if they made it easier for Christians to live and visit there, they'd all make way more tourism bucks and their Population would grow at a faster rate. The government at least understands this fact.
#14948722
I only meant it in the sense that nowadays, more people are aware of the truth about the colonization - that remains ongoing - of Palestine.

Don't you find it odd how people who claim to be Christians in this thread - cough cough Drlee - care nothing for their Christian brothers and sisters in Palestine? What's that about?
#14948735
skinster wrote:Who's going to explain to Ter that Israel isn't a Jewish state currently - and of course won't ever be - because there's about as many non-Jews in Palestine as there are Jews and zionists.

The proportion of Arabs in Israel proper is 20%.
You count the inhabitants of Judea and Samaria and who know who else to state that half the population of Israel is not Jewish.
A lttle intellectual honesty would go a long way to have a productive conversation, miss.

skinster wrote: Israel cannot be a Jewish state unless the Christian, Muslim, Druze, Bedouin and Atheist Palestinians convert to Judaism. Or lunatic-state-Israel kills them all.

This is called "hyperbole"

skinster wrote: Or lunatic-state-Israel kills them all. Which I'm sure you would like, but it's just not going to happen. Israel could've got away with that decades ago maybe, around the not-that-long-ago-time when zionists stole the country from the natives, but today, nope. Keep dreaming. Israel is merely an apartheid state right now but one day people like you are going to be forced to have equality amongst all the people in the land, whether you gtfo, get killed on the way or take it politely like a good little babby who likes to share. :)

This was the rubbish part of your post.

Listen to this: Israel isn't going anywhere any time soon.
Of course nations are not going to stay in eternity, but singling out Israel for an early demise is just your wet dream. So keep on dreaming.

I am ready to make a wager with you : I say that Iran wil get its comeuppance quite soon if it does not change its belligerent attitude. Iran has in fact managed to achieve what Israel did not, namely create a partnership between Israel and a number of Sunni Arab countries who feel threatened by Shia Iran. Let's first see what the American sanctions will achieve.
#14948739
skinster wrote:You should be open to it considering the government in charge there at the moment has been explicit about there never being a Palestinian state, AKA being honest about the reality on the ground since European zionism moved on top of an Arab country.


I honestly do not think that that is the case. It seems like a convenient conclusion that you guys have come to.

Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated because he was so close to establishing the two-state solution, after all, and he was assassinated by Israelis who were upset by it.



How?


Because, obviously, if there is no actual intention of honoring the Palestinian desires with another state, then it's easier to ignore the autonomy of the Palestinian Authority in their own affairs.

Have you heard of the one-state solution? It's what I support; one state, where all people live together but without the segregation and occupation and concentration camps, AKA the status quo changing into a state where everyone is equal, be they Jew, Muslim, Christian, Druze etc.


That's not a solution.

That's a fantasy. :D

The two-state solution is only in the heads of people who get all their info from the MSM. Most of us know that as the two-state delusion since Israel, the state that holds all the power currently, doesn't allow the possibility of it based on the facts/reality on the ground, which won't allow for an independent Palestinian state.


Oh, so the delusionis the idea that Jews & Palestinians want to live separately? These years of conflict and the existence of these extremist organizations & stances on both sides aren't indicative of any greater trend?


Please don't quote me in your gibberish that has nothing to do with anything I said ITT. But "featureless mayonnaise" is an amusing way to describe white people. :D


It's a good way to describe the white Left.
#14948746
@Verv

That's not a solution.

That's a fantasy. :D


It's the status quo. Palestine has no sovereignty and is entirely controlled and influenced by Israel. Israel won't give them a two state solution since that would make all their behavior towards Palestine both illegitimate and be war crimes. Palestine might even demand for compensation for the suffering Israel has brought upon it and the international community will agree.

Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated because he was so close to establishing the two-state solution, after all, and he was assassinated by Israelis who were upset by it.


You know, you're this close to becoming self-aware of what's actually happening in Israel. Israel is already one state. Palestine is not a state, it's a polity and it's one controlled by Israel with Palestinians being left to suffer. Palestine has no sovereignty nor self-determination. It is, quite frankly, a colony or concentration camp of Israel. Undesirables, including both Africans and non-Palestinian Arabs, are sent to Gaza or any other Palestinian territory if they do not comply to the state.
#14948757
According ot you, Ozy, the status quo is an apartheid state, and not some one-state where everyone is equal.

According to everyone else, the status quo is two, separate states, one of which is completely independent and the other has all of its terms dictated to them as if they are a hostage.

Blacks in South Africa did not have the political infrastructure of Palestinians, nor did they have the levels of autonomy nor the basis to really negotiate some kind of independence.

That is mostly why I think the "apartheid" line is really just romantic bullshit the Left feeds one another to prop up their narrative. :knife:
#14948761
The OECD (not a US organization) Executive Summary of the Israeli economy 2018:

The economy is strong

Income inequality has fallen, but economic disparities and a lack of social cohesion
persist

Reforming education, infrastructure and product markets will enhance inclusiveness
and productivity

Israel’s economy continues to register remarkable
macroeconomic and fiscal performance. Growth is
strong and unemployment low and falling. With low
interest rates and price stability, financial policy is
prudent,andpublicdebtiscomparativelylowand
declining. The external position is solid, thanks to a
dynamic high-tech sector. The average standard of
living is improving, mainly due to higher employment
rates. Continued accommodative macro policies and
planned investments in the offshore gas fields in the
coming years will spur further growth. Against this
backdrop, Israelis remain on average more satisfied with
their lives than residents of most other OECD countries.


Income disparity is a problem but improving.

Read this Oxy. It is as objective a document as you will likely ever see.

I completely understand your wanting the world to be different. It is not. Homosexuals in your country live in shear terror and you are focused on people hundreds of miles from your border. It is exactly what your government wants you to do. The Palestinians are not your brothers. The gay guy down the street is. Fix your own backyard before you set about whining about that of your neighbor. My country should heed the same advice but my country is not where you live. You can do something, even if it is subtle, about your own country just as I try to fight windmills here.

Israel is going to be where it is for long after you and I are gone. Encouraging Palestinians to kill children indiscriminately has no justification. You can't argue atrocities by claiming that someone else did it first.

You have no dog in the fight in Palestine. It is time you understand that and move on to a fight in which you have......a dog.
#14948765
@Drlee

Read this Oxy. It is as objective a document as you will likely ever see.


This, not only has nothing to do with my argument that agriculture is declining nor that a majority of Israeli GDP comes from foreign aid, it also isn't even a viable source since you didn't post a link. It doesn't even show exactly what the rate of growth is. Since most of Israel's GDP comes from foreign aid, it would mean that Israel's GDP is actually lower than it seems, developing country low. Developing countries are well-known for having high amounts of growth (for reasons I won't discuss here). It would make sense for Israel to have a good growth rate given the it's undeveloped economy.

I just want to remind you that this doesn't address any of my points.

completely understand your wanting the world to be different. It is not. Homosexuals in your country live in shear terror and you are focused on people hundreds of miles from your border. It is exactly what your government wants you to do. The Palestinians are not your brothers. The gay guy down the street is. Fix your own backyard before you set about whining about that of your neighbor. My country should heed the same advice but my country is not where you live. You can do something, even if it is subtle, about your own country just as I try to fight windmills here.


This is completely irrelevant to the discussion. Apparently you can't both support gays and Palestinians at the same time. I also do support gays more than you ever will in a lifetime simply by not telling authorities or lying about knowing of their homosexuality while you cringe whenever someone brings up "gay rights".

Israel is going to be where it is for long after you and I are gone. Encouraging Palestinians to kill children indiscriminately has no justification. You can't argue atrocities by claiming that someone else did it first.


1. Based on that vulnerable economy and life expectancy in the 21st century maybe. Furthermore, I'm not encouraging Palestinians to kill children, stop using hyperbole and putting words into my mouth. For all intents and purposes Israel has killed more children that Palestine. What you are doing now is appealing to emotion, something that shouldn't happen in a rational and evidence-based debate. Then again, you have no evidence to back up your arguments so you just use emotion instead.

2. Yeah, I'm definitely arguing atrocities by being proud of Palestinian literacy and not the guy who thinks a terrorist attack against Iranian civilians is "deserved".

You have no dog in the fight in Palestine. It is time you understand that and move on to a fight in which you have......a dog.


Yeah, I know. I am literally just fighting a war of information here just in case. Simply because I can't directly influence the Palestinian cause doesn't mean that I'll just stand idly by and let you people spread misinformation. I have been fighting for civil liberties in Iran and I am very politically active in the Reformist Party of Iran which is why I am so concerned about not revealing too much about my identity in the first place. You don't do anything and you have the audacity to tell me that I shouldn't have my own opinions and beliefs about foreign policy despite hypocritically supporting Israel and it's propaganda? Don't make me laugh.

EDIT: Also you're a Westerner I assume? You're the last person to tell others not to get involved in the issues of other nations. I bet that you have very strong opinions about what South Africa is doing to it's white farmers. Shame that, given your own logic, you are unjustified in expressing those opinions on this politics forum since you should be busy "fixing up your own backyard".
#14948768
This, not only has nothing to do with my argument that agriculture is declining nor that a majority of Israeli GDP comes from foreign aid, it also isn't even a viable source since you didn't post a link. It doesn't even show exactly what the rate of growth is. Since most of Israel's GDP comes from foreign aid,


I stopped reading here. This is categorically untrue. Most of Israel's GDP does not come from foreign aid. Not even close.

Until you can educate yourself better there is no point in trying to talk with you.

You may not know what the OECD is. You seem not to have access to credible sources. I recommend you google it, find the article and stop being so typically lazy.
#14948769
Oxymandias wrote:Since most of Israel's GDP comes from foreign aid, it would mean that Israel's GDP is actually lower than it seems, developing country low.


If you repeat a lie often enough, somebody somewhere is going to believe you.
As has been pointed out to you earlier, 3 - 5 billion foreign aid is not half of 360 billion GDP.
I am pretty astonished at your lack of elementary math comprehension.

It is possible that agricultural output is declining somewhat, but thinking that the country is in trouble because of that is pretty dumb. Agriculture is only responsible for a small portion of GDP.
Many countries, like Singapore, Nepal, have to import agricultural products and other countries, like Thailand and Vietnam, export a lot. What is your problem with this exactly ?
Let me also repeat that the region is suffering a natural drought since several years.
Israel is a small country, they have more tech, IT and research priorities than agriculture.
The country also has a lot of human capital because most of the immigrants are not janitors or drivers.
#14948770
@Ter

If you repeat a lie often enough, somebody somewhere is going to believe you.
As has been pointed out to you earlier, 3 - 5 billion foreign aid is not half of 360 billion GDP.


1. I gave you proof. You didn't address it.

2. My estimate was based on your claim (or maybe DrLee's) of Israel's GDP, which was 7 billion. I adjusted my estimates to that. If you want to know how much half of Israel's GDP would be, then do the math yourself.

I am pretty astonished at your lack of elementary math comprehension.


I adjusted it based on the data you or others gave me. I didn't even claim anything regarding Israel's foreign aid.

It is possible that agricultural output is declining somewhat, but thinking that the country is in trouble because of that is pretty dumb. Agriculture is only responsible for a small portion of GDP.


Agriculture is the foundation of an economy. If you can't produce food, then you are either 1. starving or 2. now fully dependent upon other powers. So either Israel becomes desperate or is exploited by larger more powerful powers.

Many countries, like Singapore, Nepal, have to import agricultural products and other countries, like Thailand and Vietnam, export a lot. What is your problem with this exactly ?


Nepal, Thailand, and Vietnam still produce their own food and have the capability to produce their own food. Any food they do import are food that they can't get anywhere else. This is completely different from being unable to grow food domestically at all.

Singapore is a city-state and a trading center at that.

Israel is a small country, they have more tech, IT and research priorities than agriculture.


Their largest industry is surveillance. Their tech industry is no different from any other upstart developing country's tech industry and developed due to the military-industrial complex. India's tech is better than Israel's.

The country also has a lot of human capital because most of the immigrants are not janitors or drivers.


Human capital is worthless if they're starving.
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