[Oxymandias]

@Zagadka

I don't know how you can expect anything else from @Zionist Nationalist

Also btw, I apologize for "singling you out". That wasn't my intention in the slightest. I simply just tag the OP just to show that I am responding to the main post or news the thread is about.

@Zionist Nationalist

I dont support attack against Iranian civilians only against military personnel

Terrorists don't care about whether or not you're a civilian. By supporting terrorist attacks (which is very ironic coming from you), you support civilian deaths. There's no other way around it.

Hezbollah are a terrorist group. they intentially hit civilian areas with rockets bombed Israeli tourist bus in Bulgaria and bombed an Israeli embassy in Argentina

1. All of those specific terrorist attacks weren't done by the main Hezbollah organization (i.e. the one in Lebanon) and most other branches of Hezbollah are autonomous. The terrorists affiliated themselves with Hezbollah but that doesn't mean that the main Hezbollah headquarters ordered them to do so.

2. Hezbollah is a party in Lebanon (holding 14 of the 128 seats in the Parliament of Lebanon), has it's own de facto state within Lebanon, of which has it's own government and political factions, and has it's own foreign policy and deals with other nations. It's pretty much no longer a terrorist group, just a very, very aggressive state.

They are terrorists and nothing will change my mind about them since I experienced their terrorism at first hand in 2006

I'm not asking you to change your mind, just to remember that Iran isn't the only one funding terrorists. The US funded ISIS and Israel created the Hamas.

Israel culturally is somewhat close to the Arabs but it will never be part of the region, it will never join the Arab league or play in sport competition with the neighboring states.

TIL joining the Arab league and playing sports is integration.

That's not what I mean by integration. Iran isn't in the Arab league and so isn't Turkey, but they still provide something to the region and have vested interest in it's prosperity. Israel isn't doing any of that. It only seeks to extort from it, not give to it in any meaningful way. Israel has the potential to be the Al-Andalus of the Middle East, but it doesn't want to do that. It doesn't want to provide opportunities or raise the standard of living for everyone in the Middle East, it just wants to suck the resources from it.

thus it have no interests in benefiting the region unless the Arabs will finally drop the Palestinian issue

Except that all Arab countries have the dropped the issue and only their citizens give a shit about the Palestinian issue. Israel's just paranoid and elitist. She doesn't want to integrate because she doesn't consider herself for who she really is, a part of the Middle East. By destabilizing the Middle East, Israel doesn't help itself, it only secures it's downfall by making everything A. more unpredictable B. lowering their prosperity and C. making their neighbors hate them even more.

[Rich]

The US funded ISIS and Israel created the Hamas.

What a pathetic fantasy world you live in. All sorts of people might have funded ISIS or even Hamas for all sorts of reasons, but its Muslims that joined ISIS and Hamas, its Muslims who supported ISIS and Hamas, its Muslims that in huge numbers voted for Hamas and most importantly its Muslims that have been prepared to die for ISIS and Hamas. We've had 1400 years of terror from Muslims, 1400 years of intolerance, 1400 years of bigotry, 1400 years of parasitism going right back to its Paedophile prophet who raped a nine year old girl with her fathers encouragement so as he could become Mohammed's successor. Hamas and ISIS is just more of the same.

[Oxymandias]

@Rich

What a pathetic fantasy world you live in.

Based on all of your posts, I can say the same for you. There's a reason why no one takes you seriously.

All sorts of people might have funded ISIS or even Hamas for all sorts of reasons, but its Muslims that joined ISIS and Hamas, its Muslims who supported ISIS and Hamas, its Muslims that in huge numbers voted for Hamas and most importantly its Muslims that have been prepared to die for ISIS and Hamas.

1. Simply because Muslims joined ISIS and the Hamas doesn't mean that all Muslims joined ISIS and the Hamas. White Christians joined the Nazis and the KKK. Does that mean all of them did?

2. Most Muslims don't support ISIS or the Hamas.

3. Palestinians didn't vote for the Hamas, Israel placed them as the authority of Palestinians. Also Palestinians aren't "huge numbers of Muslims".

4. I have heard of Western Christians fighting for ISIS as well. Does that mean that all Christians are prepared to die for ISIS?

We've had 1400 years of terror from Muslims

You know, if I actually asked you to prove this, you wouldn't be able to give me a single meaningful source. Like, in your claim of Muslim's intolerance and bigotry, you forgot that A. Islam is against racism and B. Islam has been more tolerant to minorities than Christians have given that literal pagans still live in Islamic lands while most of Europe is Christian despite being also religiously diverse. Furthermore, let's look at your parasitism stance. What do you even mean by that? The Middle East is still self-sufficient and refugees are only going to Europe because of political instability, not lack of resources. Also, your "Aisha was a nine year old" statement. There are two arguments against this, 1. that he married her to protect her and didn't fuck her 2. that her age is vague since there are multiple sources which claim that she was 9-22 years olds and 3. the hadith in which the idea that she was nine came from is false. I don't think you can make a meaningful argument against any of mine.

Hams and ISIS is just more of the same.

The Hamas and ISIS were created by Israel and the US respectively. There is nothing natural about these two groups, they are as artificial as the nations they came from. The West and Israel only pretend that they are natural outgrowths of Islam. You seem to side with those liars.

[danholo]

The Hamas and ISIS were created by Israel and the US respectively. There is nothing natural about these two groups, they are as artificial as the nations they came from. The West and Israel only pretend that they are natural outgrowths of Islam. You seem to side with those liars.

What makes these groups 'unnatural'? Are the people who lead them somehow easily brainwashed or some sort of drones? Others would say it's extremely natural, as was the outgrowth of the Islamic Republic in Iran, or is everything divisive in the Islamic sphere just the product of some other sinister forces?

Iran decided it needs to say something in order not to look weak so:

Iran warns Israel and US of revenge after parade attack

[skinster]

Iran does not pose an immediate threat but its a long term threat and their agenda is clear they want to end Israel as a Jewish state and its not something Israel will accept

Iran, like a lot of nations and millions of people, want the end of zionism in Palestine since it's an ethnosupremacist ideology in a multi-nation state. Israel is not and will never be a Jewish state and anyway it's weird you support it being one since that being so would expel you from there since you're not Jewish.

They support of Hamas,Hezbollah both groups who have made the destruction of Israel part of their agenda

Just stop with the hasbara. Both those orgs hate Israel because Israel made war on them and that is how they were created. Neither would exist if Israel didn't commit terrorism in Palestine and Lebanon. You done fucked up on your chronology.

Iran is financing terrorism they deserve every terrorist attack they get

Iran is not murdering Palestinian children every Friday. Iran is not placing millions of people in a modern day concentration camp. Iran can aid groups if other states like the US can arm and fund you and and the terrorism against the natives that you continue to support. You can't have it both ways, and you won't.

I feel bad for the civilians but military personnel especially the revolutionary guards are a legitimate target and I hope more attacks against those dogs will come along

This terrorist attack in Iran killed women and children. Only people like you and other regular racists ITT would celebrate such things. But it's only notable, never a surprise.

[Oxymandias]

@danholo

What makes these groups 'unnatural'? Are the people who lead them somehow easily brainwashed or some sort of drones? Others would say it's extremely natural, as was the outgrowth of the Islamic Republic in Iran, or is everything divisive in the Islamic sphere just the product of some other sinister forces?

Hezbollah and the Hamas aren't even in Iran how can they be outgrowths of them? Furthermore, I have posted evidence of the Hamas creation by Israel and, in the case of Hezbollah, it was the literal outgrowth of the Lebanese civil war not Islam for whatever reason. The Islamic world doesn't even have a history of this. Terrorism and militia groups only became a major force after foreign intervention. Hell, even Iran's radicalism was the result of the CIA and M16 destroying any hopes of Iran becoming a democracy by assassinating their democratically elected prime minister. Even if Iran wasn't an Islamic Republic it would still despise the US for this reason only.

[layman]

Iran is not immune to Arab terrorists either.

We will probably never know if any greater power sponsored them but it’s fun to speculate.

[Ter]

Iran is not immune to Arab terrorists either.

We will probably never know if any greater power sponsored them but it’s fun to speculate.

Nobody should be happy that women and children got killed.
Iran is a major sponsor of terrorism however, let us not forget that.
What goes around, comes around.

[Oxymandias]

@Ter

So terrorism would be payback for Western and Israeli meddling in the Middle East? Also calling Hezbollah a terrorist group when it literally has it's own state within a state and political party in Lebanon and fudning the Hamas is pretty mcuh the only way to fund Palestine.

[Ter]

@Ter

So terrorism would be payback for Western and Israeli meddling in the Middle East? Also calling Hezbollah a terrorist group when it literally has it's own state within a state and political party in Lebanon and fudning the Hamas is pretty mcuh the only way to fund Palestine.

You should ask the Iranian leadership why they are sponsoring terror.
Hezbolla is definitely a terror group. They are Iran's client, a proxy army.
Hamas is of course also a terrorist group.
Iran is not only threatening Israel, it is also considered an enemy state by a number of Sunni Arab countries in the Region.

In the meantime, a large part of the Iranian population is unhappy with the way things are going there. Iran should concentrate on making its own population happy instead of boxing above its weight in the Region. It is unsustainable and will lead to a catastrophy, not in the least for Iran itself.

[Victoribus Spolia]

Hezbollah and the Hamas aren't even in Iran how can they be outgrowths of them? Furthermore, I have posted evidence of the Hamas creation by Israel and, in the case of Hezbollah, it was the literal outgrowth of the Lebanese civil war not Islam for whatever reason. The Islamic world doesn't even have a history of this. Terrorism and militia groups only became a major force after foreign intervention. Hell, even Iran's radicalism was the result of the CIA and M16 destroying any hopes of Iran becoming a democracy by assassinating their democratically elected prime minister. Even if Iran wasn't an Islamic Republic it would still despise the US for this reason only.

But does Iran offer funding to these groups? IF they do, thats all the west is arguing on this point.

Likewise, this whole post sounds like victim-mentality whining.

"We're only bad guys because the west were bad guys first."

Give me a break. You guys act like you never invaded and tried to influence western lands....

You can call Hamas and Hezbollah a "Psuedo-Islamic Nationalist Reaction to Colonial and Post-Colonial Oppression,"

but its still justified as Islamic by the members of those groups, and they are still funded by middle-eastern nation-states, and they still target non-combatant populations.

They are state-funded "Islamic" terrorists and Iran supports them.

Your rebuttals are nothing but window-dressing and quite besides the point.

[Zionist Nationalist]

You are funny guys Iranians.

it dosent matter how many times you gonna say that the wolf is a ship its still going to be a wolf

Hezbollah is a terrorist organization that have celebrated a release of a child murderer but thankfully this subhuman shit was eliminated
hopefully nasrallah will join him soon

[Godstud]

Israel is a terrorist organization. They've murdered more children than Hamas has.

[Victoribus Spolia]

Israel is a terrorist organization. They've murdered more children than Hamas has.

This could be said about many nations, including the U.S., Canada, the UK, et al.

However, its a red herring to make that point when the point under contention is if Hamas and Hezbollah are islamic terrorist organizations funded by Iran.

My point was that their existence stemming from unorthodox religious views and a sense of grievance against western imperialism are all quite irrelevant.

If they kill non-combatants in the name of Islam and by the funding of states like Iran, than Iran is guilty of the what the U.S. is claiming. Period.

[Godstud]

This could be said about many nations, including the U.S., Canada, the UK, et al.

Can you support such a claim with facts?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_ ... n_conflict

[Victoribus Spolia]

Can you support such a claim with facts?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_ ... n_conflict

Do you really want me to support the claim that the allies committed atrocities against civilians?.....Please don't make my waste my time linking stuff we already know happened Godstud.....don't pull a PoD on me.

[Zionist Nationalist]

Its easy for godstud to speak against Israel when you are from a country that is being sorrounded by their main ally
they have no threats from blood thirsty neighbors and you have no idea whats going on here

all the information that you are getting is from the media which is biased and makes the Arabs look like some peacelovers when peace is not and never was part of their agenda (the leadership)

[Red_Army]

Are you talking about Hamas? The leadership that Israel wanted?

[Oxymandias]

@Ter

Funding someone =/= owning that person. Iran doesn't even make up 40% of Hezbollah's funding and thus, doesn't even have the sufficient influence to direct Hezbollah let alone make it it's proxy.

The Hamas are the de facto rulers of Palestinians and thus, if you want to fund Palestine, you'll end up funding the Hamas one way or the other.

@Victoribus Spolia

But does Iran offer funding to these groups? IF they do, thats all the west is arguing on this point.

Yeah, you definitely represent all Westerners /s

Most people on this forum are arguing that Iran funds terrorism, not that it funds the Hamas or Hezbollah. Any argument otherwise is your point, not theirs.

Likewise, this whole post sounds like victim-mentality whining.

"We're only bad guys because the west were bad guys first."

Ironically, I've seen many arguments in favor of the Crusades stating that it was a reaction against Islamic aggression. Wouldn't that be considered "victim-mentality whining"? I assume you yourself ascribe to these thoughts.

I'm not affirming a morality to the situation. I am merely asserting that terrorist groups aren't created because of Western intervention either directly or indirectly. I don't see how you can see this as "whining" given that I am just correcting these posters of the reality of the situation. There is no "bad guy" here.

Give me a break. You guys act like you never invaded and tried to influence western lands....

Iran =/= Achaemenid and Sassanid Empires. To assume that there is a direct continuity between the three is anachronistic. Furthermore, Iran under the Caliphate did not conquer Western lands.

but its still justified as Islamic by the members of those groups, and they are still funded by middle-eastern nation-states, and they still target non-combatant populations.

That doesn't change that they didn't emerge as a natural phenomenon of Islamic civilization which is what the posters here are arguing. The Hamas was an Israeli creation and Hezbollah was the result of the Lebanese Civil War. How "Islamic" they are has nothing to do with this. We are debating how these terrorist groups came to be in the first place, not what they are. I have never said that the Hamas or Hezbollah weren't Islamic, I said that they are not the result of Islam. Not only is the claim that they are incoherent when taking into consideration Middle Eastern history, it is also ignorant of any foreign intervention in the Middle East.

They are state-funded "Islamic" terrorists and Iran supports them.

Hezbollah has it's own state within Lebanon, has it's own government, has seats in the Lebanese parliament, and is legally considered a political party in Lebanon. The Hamas are the de facto rulers of Palestine. Even if they aren't formally nations, they certainly are de facto ones. Iran supports them in the same vein as they do Assad. Basically just funding them.

Your rebuttals are nothing but window-dressing and quite besides the point.

Yes because stating that Hezbollah and the Hamas are de facto states is definitely window-dressing and not a substantial point worthy of debating. Either you aren't reading what I'm writing or the point completely went over your head.

If they kill non-combatants in the name of Islam and by the funding of states like Iran, than Iran is guilty of the what the U.S. is claiming. Period.

You clearly know what the US is claiming. Such insider knowledge is obviously expect of Americans. Furthermore, I find your point kind of incoherent. You say that the US or the UK for example can be considered terrorist organizations but then you go on to say that the distinction between the US and organizations like the Hamas (explicitly between states and terrorist organizations) is that the Hamas are Islamic, get funding from Islamic states, and kill non-combatants. This, not only is a false definition of terrorism, but also simply absolves every non-Islamic polity of committing terrorism. Those weird Japanese cults and the bombings they commit wouldn't be considered terrorism in your book because they aren't Islamic. Your definition of terrorism revolves around the idea that terrorism is inherently Islamic. Terrorism no longer is an act and more of a catch all term for any Islamic violence which literally makes the term useless. I think both you and I can see the faults of that analysis.

[skinster]

But does Iran offer funding to these groups? IF they do, thats all the west is arguing on this point.

Why can the West support genocidal apartheid states and then cry about the resistance organizations that become victim of said apartheid states? You too are fucking up on the chronology of events vis-a-vis the orgs you're complaining about.

History is your frand.

Its easy for godstud to speak against Israel when you are from a country that is being sorrounded by their main ally

First of all, Palestine isn't your country - you're from Ukraine. Secondly, it's easy for lots of people all over the world to speak against Israel, because it's a fascist apartheid state that tests weapons on prisoners, including imprisoned children, for one.

they have no threats from blood thirsty neighbors and you have no idea whats going on here

Maybe stop bombing and trying to destroy neighbouring countries, and they won't hate on you. Just an idea...

all the information that you are getting is from the media which is biased and makes the Arabs look like some peacelovers when peace is not and never was part of their agenda (the leadership)

This doesn't jive with reality but at you playing victim, that's unlike you.