Rural white man on how to make rural whites understand Blacks fear of the police - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14955076
You're statements are full of shit. Every bit of scientific research that you don't agree with, you dismiss. That's a simpleton attitude. Studies are noy "theoretical" and seeing as you are quite ignorant as far as science goes, your comment is quite groundless.

One Degree wrote:Edit: @Godstud Actually, the second article basically says the poor have problems because the poor are not very bright to begin with and therefore don’t supply the intellectual stimulation.
You obviously did not read the fucking article, and malnutrition is a primary cause of low IQ.

You know, forget it. I'm done talking to a person of questionable morals incapable of having an honest discussion. Your posts are akin to those of a racist brainwashed propagandist.
#14955089
Godstud seems to hold the common misconception that there are people starving in America. Aside from weird niche circumstances where they fail to access social services for some reason, there aren't and the poor also get free socialized healthcare (Medicaid). So no, poverty is no excuse.

Poverty in America is fundamentally different from how it works in some other countries out there where the poor actually have trouble accessing food and so-on. Poor people in America are actually often obese from eating too much, have smartphones etc.
#14955148
Oxymandias wrote:@One Degree



They associate themselves with conservatives, worship traditional values, build upon conservative ideologies, and support most of the same stuff as regular conservatives. For all intents and purpose, they do represent some kind of conservative view.



Then it’s certainly a well-researched and well-evidenced lie with great deals of grounding in the real world.



Just because you can’t see it doesn’t it doesn’t exist. Just because you haven’t experienced institutional racism doesn’t mean no one has ever seen it or felt it. Certainly the minorities who complain about it have seen it and have been effected by it. They also couldn’t possibly be all Democrat propagandists.



On the contrary it has already been proven.



Minorities don’t vote Democrat because of propaganda. They do so because the opposing party not only does not care about them, but is consistently attempting to undermine them.



I have literally been arguing against it for these past posts. If you want proof, I’m currently on mobile typing this which explains my lack of links and sources as well as the occasional spelling errors here and there.



The reason why institutional racism isn’t present under your jurisdiction is because it’s your jurisdiction. You’re an upstanding man and thus aren’t succumbed to racism. However other firms, both public and private, do have characteristics of institutional racism.

Institutional racism isn’t just about hiring, it’s about bias towards specific minorities in social institutions. It’s much more broad than just a business owner hiring a white guy over a black guy due to race.



You can’t just make invisible racism. Racism can be known to exist based on its effects on others. If there was no racism and the Democratic Party was simply making it up, they won’t get minority votes. This is because minorities themselves haven’t experienced any racism if this was the case. Except it isn’t, many minorities are speaking again racism so much so that they couldn’t be all spreading propaganda and minorities are relating to their stories based upon their own experiences.



I doubt it. The two parties are self-sufficient.


All of your arguments amount to, “institutionalized racism is real because minorities say they experience it”. You even believe you have supplied evidence, but people’s feelings are not evidence. As I explained, believing something is true is not the same as it being true. Their fear is real, but not realistic. If you believe people are out to get you, then you will find examples everyday. If you believe people love you, then you will find examples everyday. If the media only feeds one of these nonstop for decades, then it is pretty certain which one you will believe.
If you are made paranoid about racism, then it only takes about one racist every few years to convince you of it. You ignore the 10,000 encounters that weren’t racist. This effects whites too. Our view of Blacks is also distorted because we know what the media is saying about us is not true. We resent it.

Even if it were true, there is no solution except time. The laws are passed. Listen to what is really being said. It is complaints about racism, but no one is offering solutions. The solutions are already in place. So exactly what laws are any of these complainers suggesting be passed. All these Democrats are running against racism, so where are there proposed laws? They are beating a dead horse for votes. You ask the football kneeler what they want done and all they can come up with is donations to charity.
#14955150
@Godstud said...
You obviously did not read the fucking article, and malnutrition is a primary cause of low IQ.


Yes it is and it is true in some parts of the world, but not in the US.
So why are you and these so called scientists using it to excuse crime in the US?
Sure looks like propaganda to me.
#14955257
@One Degree

of your arguments amount to, “institutionalized racism is real because minorities say they experience it”.


Nope. That isn't my argument. My argument is that there is evidence of institutionalized racism and minorities own experiences with it is a part of that series of evidences.

You even believe you have supplied evidence, but people’s feelings are not evidence.


That wasn't my evidence.

s I explained, believing something is true is not the same as it being true.


They aren't believing in it, they're experiencing it. These are two fundamentally opposed things. Believing you are in poverty is completely different from experiencing being in poverty. Right now you're just using post-modernist nonsense here.

Their fear is real, but not realistic. If you believe people are out to get you, then you will find examples everyday. If you believe people love you, then you will find examples everyday. If the media only feeds one of these nonstop for decades, then it is pretty certain which one you will believe.


Experiences =/= beliefs.

If you are made paranoid about racism, then it only takes about one racist every few years to convince you of it. You ignore the 10,000 encounters that weren’t racist. This effects whites too. Our view of Blacks is also distorted because we know what the media is saying about us is not true. We resent it.


Institutional racism does not mean that individuals are racist. It means that institutions are structured in a fashion which is racist. This makes sense when you consider that most American institutions and infrastructure haven't been updated in decades. It isn't the people who are racist, it's institutions. This is why it's called institutional racism.

Even if it were true, there is no solution except time. The laws are passed. Listen to what is really being said. It is complaints about racism, but no one is offering solutions. The solutions are already in place. So exactly what laws are any of these complainers suggesting be passed. All these Democrats are running against racism, so where are there proposed laws? They are beating a dead horse for votes. You ask the football kneeler what they want done and all they can come up with is donations to charity.


Can we just ignore Democrats and Republicans for just three seconds? Their honestly irrelevant to a discussion about institutional racism because both Democrats and Republicans are institutionally racist.
#14955261
@Oxymandias
I won’t bother rearguing the individual comments, but where are the proposed solutions? What is being accomplished by screaming about racism nonstop? Even if institutionalized racism actually exists, it does not seem to be stopping many minorities from succeeding in their life. I can think of all kinds of things about me that other people did not like and tried to hinder me. That is life. The idea is to defeat the hurdles. I think we have removed the serious hurdles for minorities. The evidence is all around us. So again, why do I only hear complaints and not proposals?
#14955264
@One Degree

I won’t bother rearguing the individual comments, but where are the proposed solutions?


There are many solutions proposed by minorities but they aren't being heard or addressed by both Democrats and Republicans. They like to pay lip serve to institutional racism but not solve it because both parties are institutionally racist.

it does not seem to be stopping many minorities from succeeding in their life.


The crux of institutional racism is that it prevents minorities from succeeding in their life.

I can think of all kinds of things about me that other people did not like and tried to hinder me.


Your life is not comparable to that of a minorities. You have not experienced institutional racism.

I think we have removed the serious hurdles for minorities.


Institutional racism is a much bigger hurdle. If certain institutions, regardless of the viewpoints of their individual workers, are biased due to their structure then that affects minorities negatively.

So again, why do I only hear complaints and not proposals?


Probably because you haven't looked for them. I mean, until this thread, you have professed that institutional racism didn't exist. Obviously you wouldn't pay attention to solutions to a problem you think is redundant anyways.
#14955267
Oxymandias wrote:Your life is not comparable to that of a minorities. You have not experienced institutional racism.


:lol: How the fuck do you know what his life has been?

We can be pretty sure what your life has been though if you think middle class blacks have it worse than impoverished whites.
#14955269
@Oxymandias
So, no answer?

I think my life gives me a pretty good idea. My father was a private investigator and had dirty details on everyone. I encountered all kinds of roadblocks from people who hated me because of it. Most of them never expressed openly because my brothers and I spent our lives fighting people who badmouthed him.
When he died, I was inundated with important people asking what would happen with his files. It took me 3 days to burn them all in a huge dumpster.
So, yes I think I can imagine what it is like to believe people you don’t know or unidentifiable forces are holding you back.
There was little I could do about it other than not let it stop me.
#14955274
Btw, when I talked to my students, of all colors in bad situations, I asked them what they could do to make their situatin tolerable until they could get out of it. It is a waste of effort and emotion to demand other people change to make your life better. This rarely happens. What you do is what will make a difference in your life.
This may be mundane and outdated, but I still believe it is the only reasonable response. Today, everyone seems to demand everyone else must change. Good luck with that. Kneeling because other people don’t please you is not going to change one damn thing in your life to make it better.
#14955287
@Sivad

Are you seriously saying that there is no difference in how blacks are socially treated than how white middle classmen are treated? Are you serious?

@One Degree

So, no answer?


Answer what? Do you want me to give you proof of institutional racism.

I think my life gives me a pretty good idea. My father was a private investigator and had dirty details on everyone. I encountered all kinds of roadblocks from people who hated me because of it. Most of them never expressed openly because my brothers and I spent our lives fighting people who badmouthed him.


That has nothing to do with institutional racism or the African American experience.

When he died, I was inundated with important people asking what would happen with his files. It took me 3 days to burn them all in a huge dumpster.


You should've sent them to me. :)

So, yes I think I can imagine what it is like to believe people you don’t know or unidentifiable forces are holding you back.


Except that both the circumstances and forces are completely different and the forces are identifiable in the case of racism. The fact that you know who's hurting you makes it hurt more. Furthermore, in this situation, you have the capability of getting out of it. Minorities can't. For minorities, it's a never-ending fucking cycle of constant poverty and humiliation.

There was little I could do about it other than not let it stop me.


This means that blacks should just suck it up and let others treat them like shit? This means that it's fine to do a 180 and remove blacks of their civil rights because they're "snowflakes".

Btw, when I talked to my students, of all colors in bad situations, I asked them what they could do to make their situatin tolerable until they could get out of it. It is a waste of effort and emotion to demand other people change to make your life better. This rarely happens. What you do is what will make a difference in your life.


Except that the world rarely rewards those who put in the effort to change their lives. It's put to society to reward those who attempt to provide something for themselves and the world.
#14955292
@Oxymandias
So, no solutions still?
Most of your comments can be covered by, “We are all equal but Blacks are very different and helpless.” That reasoning is so insulting to Blacks.
Then your last comment where you admit it is up to everyone else to change to make your life better confirms my suspicions of how totaling lacking in character and self worth many have become. Yes, fix your own life. Society has done what it can, which is why you can’t show me proposals for laws anyone is making.
#14955296
I taught in a school where not being poor was a rarity. The commonality of at risk kids was not race or income. It was dysfunctional families. It affects people of all races and all income levels. Poverty and discrimination are overcome by functioning families. Strong families did this even when the laws were against them.
#14955317
@Hong Wu and @One Degree No. I don't think Americans are starving to death. Don't be puerile.

Hidden hunger: America’s growing malnutrition epidemic
Even people in the wealthiest countries aren’t getting enough nutrients, write Barbara Bush, daughter of former US president George W Bush, and Hugh Welsh, president of DSM North America. Some 85% of Americans lack essential vitamins
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... itamins-us

It doesn't help that better food costs more money, either, but hey, don't let some facts get in the way of your stupidity. :knife:

Poverty
the state of being extremely poor.

Poor
lacking sufficient money to live at a standard considered comfortable or normal in a society.

This is dependent on the society you are in, so a poor person in Africa is going to be much poorer by American standards. Mind you, in USA no one should be that fucking poor. It's a 1st world country that's among the richest in the world. Can you wrap your heads around that?
#14955322
@Sivad

I"m saying middle class black kids are treated a lot better than poor white kids. I'd rather be black than poor in America.


The issue is not with treatment but with social mobility. If you're poor and white, you have higher capabilities to climb the social ladder than if you're black.

@One Degree

So, no solutions still?


Do you want me to give you proof that institutional racism is a thing and that their are solutions being proposed? It's not my obligation to propose solutions. I'm not American after all.

Most of your comments can be covered by, “We are all equal but Blacks are very different and helpless.” That reasoning is so insulting to Blacks.


No they can't because my argument is that institutional racism exists and that minorities have lower levels of social mobility than whites in America. None of that is insulting to blacks. Admitting that there are social and political barriers to the self-improvement of blacks isn't insulting them. It's accepting reality.

Then your last comment where you admit it is up to everyone else to change to make your life better


I never said that. I said that society should reward those who put in the effort to advance themselves and their respective communities. That has nothing to do with society proving everything to anyone.

Yes, fix your own life. Society has done what it can, which is why you can’t show me proposals for laws anyone is making.


My life is perfectly fine. What you are suggesting is that society has no reason to reward those who try their best to improve their own lives and/or their community's and thus, it's morally fine to throw them under the bus. The reality is that many people who put in the effort to improve themselves and those around them don't get rewarded for it. There are so many examples of people trying their best to not just rise up the social ladder but improve humanity as well and don't get rewarded for it because society is so closed off to them that the idea of someone like them becoming successful is repulsive.

If you want solutions to institutional racism their there. You just don't want to see them:

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10. ... 7906060715

https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/ab ... .127.6.787

https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 007-9117-0

https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr ... ns&f=false

https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage? ... &id=&page=

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... 0600967885

And much much more.
#14955324
Godstud wrote:@Hong Wu and @One Degree No. I don't think Americans are starving to death. Don't be puerile.

Hidden hunger: America’s growing malnutrition epidemic
Even people in the wealthiest countries aren’t getting enough nutrients, write Barbara Bush, daughter of former US president George W Bush, and Hugh Welsh, president of DSM North America. Some 85% of Americans lack essential vitamins
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... itamins-us

It doesn't help that better food costs more money, either, but hey, don't let some facts get in the way of your stupidity. :knife:

Poverty
the state of being extremely poor.

Poor
lacking sufficient money to live at a standard considered comfortable or normal in a society.

This is dependent on the society you are in, so a poor person in Africa is going to be much poorer by American standards. Mind you, in USA no one should be that fucking poor. It's a 1st world country that's among the richest in the world. Can you wrap your heads around that?


Poor nutrition in the US is attributed to our eating habits (fast food). This is not due to lack of money for food because fast food is more expensive than healthy food at the grocery store. I would be surprised if the lack of nutrition they are speaking of has significant impact anyway. Even if you argue it does, it doesn’t matter because it is due to the individuals choice and not to oppression. So what is your point other than another opportunity to insult?
#14955325
Oxymandias wrote:@Sivad



The issue is not with treatment but with social mobility. If you're poor and white, you have higher capabilities to climb the social ladder than if you're black.

@One Degree



Do you want me to give you proof that institutional racism is a thing and that their are solutions being proposed? It's not my obligation to propose solutions. I'm not American after all.



No they can't because my argument is that institutional racism exists and that minorities have lower levels of social mobility than whites in America. None of that is insulting to blacks. Admitting that there are social and political barriers to the self-improvement of blacks isn't insulting them. It's accepting reality.



I never said that. I said that society should reward those who put in the effort to advance themselves and their respective communities. That has nothing to do with society proving everything to anyone.



My life is perfectly fine. What you are suggesting is that society has no reason to reward those who try their best to improve their own lives and/or their community's and thus, it's morally fine to throw them under the bus. The reality is that many people who put in the effort to improve themselves and those around them don't get rewarded for it. There are so many examples of people trying their best to not just rise up the social ladder but improve humanity as well and don't get rewarded for it because society is so closed off to them that the idea of someone like them becoming successful is repulsive.

If you want solutions to institutional racism their there. You just don't want to see them:

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10. ... 7906060715

https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/ab ... .127.6.787

https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 007-9117-0

https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr ... ns&f=false

https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage? ... &id=&page=

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... 0600967885

And much much more.


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