Saudi Arabia-Jamal Khashoggi - Western Hypocrisy - Page 12 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14955275
anarchist23 wrote:Trumps supporters don't give a shit to what happened to a Saudi journalist in a Consulate in Turkey.
No doubt they don't know or care where Turkey, Saudia Arabia or Yemen is on the map.

When compared to the last 20 years of Middle East politics? This is what gets the media upset? If that's what it took to get the media's attention they should have started killing journalists en masse back in 2001. For God sake, we've seen the migration of millions of people into Europe and the political destabilization of the EU, with a compliant media calling entire national populations racist. This does not bother them. Yet, when a Saudi journalists with ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and friendly with shitbag reporters in DC gets chopped up they fall to pieces in tears and grief? Seriously? What world are these people living in? They weren't even marginally upset by Al Qaeda offshoots in Libya killing a US ambassador, instead blaming it on a Coptic Christian Egyptian emigre and throwing him in prison for an alleged parole violation.

jimjam wrote:Donald has been doing business with gangsters and crooks most of his life and has recently come out in favor of choking and body slamming reporters who ask unwanted questions.

We understand your disdain for Donald Trump, but the US has been allied with the Saudi state since its formation. The US has been exceptionally close to Saudi Arabia since King Abdulaziz bin Abdulrahman al-Saud and Franklin Roosevelt met aboard the USS Quincy on the Great Bitter Lake in Egypt in 1945. Oil is of strategic interest to the national security of the United States. The well being of shit-disturbing Muslim Brotherhood Saudi journalists is most definitely not a national security interest of the United States.

jimjam wrote:Perhaps news that his new BFF is a guy who cuts reporters into little pieces who ask unwanted questions is a bridge too far for some.

Calling illegal aliens who murder Americans "murderers" is a bridge too far for some. Given what Trump's detractors complain about, this one seems a little odd to me. It's not like Donald Trump ordered him to be killed. Do you want him to cry crocodile tears for the Muslim Brotherhood?

jimjam wrote:Perhaps this incident solidifies what we already knew: worshiping at the alter of money is what Donald and, by association, America stand for. I know that worshiping at the alter of money is ok by you and Donald but there are still some in this life who think there are some things/values that are more important.

The US prints the money it pays to Saudi Arabia. They return it to the US Treasury in exchange for weapons. Money isn't the primary issue. Oil and weapons are the material factors. Exporting weapons to client states was one of the methods to overcome the Triffin paradox following the closing of the Gold Window and the end of Bretton Woods. I have to figure that Jamal Khashoggi was some sort of bagman funding US reporters. I've long suspected US talking heads of taking payouts (effectively bribes) to sell out US interests for the interests of foreign powers--in effect, lobbying the American people in their role as reporters on behalf of foreign governments. That's the only reason I can see them being upset about this; that is, one of their ATM machines got taken away.

Istanbuller wrote:The United States and Trump administartion created this Saudi monster. You created this swamp. For this reason, it is up to you to clean this and reveal everything transparently.

Trump hasn't even been president for two years. He had nothing to do with creating the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The current milieu is a result of Obama's administration siding with Iran, which has created an otherwise unthinkable alliance between Israel and Saudi Arabia against Iran.
#14955278
I know I know, it's Fox. But the guy did call the president clueless. :)


What do you guys think? Could the US be just fine financial speaking if they cut ties with the Saudis?

[youtube]0yjM6K3o-o0[\youtube]
Last edited by Rancid on 20 Oct 2018 23:57, edited 1 time in total.
#14955279
One Degree wrote:Yesterday, you were saying the opposite. You must have been in a bad mood. :)


I'm old and in a bad mood every day :) .

I think yesterday I was railing on and on about basically the same thing. Rich getting richer at the expense of the non rich and America being turned into a nation of every man for himself with no regard for folks helping each other. Sounds similar to me.
#14955282
Hindsite wrote:1. That is why you don't understand a real American, a 20 year military veteran, like myself.


I'm not going to debate the notion of what constitutes a 'real' American with you. I will say that to me, vets strike me as devoted to their country. I gather, in your case, that's the idea of America rather than to or for your countrymen. I conclude this because you don't seem to give a red rats bottom regarding their health.


2. You should at least realize that America leads and rules international treaties if they are to endure.


No, you should realise it doesnt


3. One of your British leaders once said that America always does the right thing in the end.


The actual quote, rightly or wrongly attributed to Churchill is "You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing after they have tried everything else.”, implying it takes a lot of floundering it the weeds before you give up and do the right thing. HTH.
#14955294
[center-img]http://i63.tinypic.com/2bw87p.jpg[/center-img]


Not satisfied with the Saudi story on how journalist Jamal Khashoggi died in Turkey, EU leaders are demanding an in-depth probe, with Germany's foreign minister saying that Berlin shouldn’t sell arms to Riyadh until it’s finished.
Germany, France, and the EU all said they want more from Saudi Arabia on Saturday, demanding a full investigation and "accountability"
French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said Paris "condemns this murder in the strongest terms." He noted that while Riyadh's Friday night admission of the journalist's death is the "first step toward the establishment of truth," many questions still remain.
"The information available about events in the Istanbul consulate is inadequate," said a joint statement of German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Foreign Minister Heiko Maas. They expect transparency and more answers from Riyadh about the circumstances surrounding the suspicious death, widely painted in media reports as a gruesome murder.
Maas stated separately that Berlin should not approve arms sales to Saudi Arabia until investigations into Khashoggi's death are completed.
"So long as investigations are underway, so long as we don't know what happened there, there is no reason to take positive decisions on arms exports to Saudi Arabia," he told German public television's Tagesthemen program.
The remarks from Europe came after Riyadh finally stated on Saturday, ending two weeks of denials, that Khashoggi was killed in a “fistfight” that occurred at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, while providing no evidence. Authorities also announced the detention of 18 suspects in the case.

But while Europe remains skeptical and insistent on clear answers, US President Donald Trump seemed mostly satisfied with Riyadh's confession on Saturday, once again calling the kingdom a "great ally." He did admit, however, that "some questions" remain and that he will be working with Congress on how to proceed to address the issue. 
Trump has repeatedly stated that the US hopes to keep its $450 billion arms deal with Riyadh, citing the money and jobs it is bringing to the US. He said on Friday that it would be "very hurtful" to the US if it was dropped, and previously said there were other ways of "punishing" Saudi Arabia if it were found to be beh
Khashoggi was last seen on October 2 when he entered the Saudi consulate in Istanbul to obtain documents for his forthcoming marriage. Turkey was quick to state that it had evidence that he was murdered inside the building, though Riyadh had adamantly denied that claim until Saturday. The case prompted a global backlash against Saudi Arabia, from governments to media organizations and business figures including Richard Branson and Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi.

https://www.rt.com/news/441842-europe-d ... khashoggi/
#14955362
Zagadka wrote:Image

These guys have our backs.

I have always been fascinated at just how repulsive a human can become.

I had an 86 year old friend who used to be a fishing dragger captain on Georges Bank when I lived in Gloucester, Mass a long time ago named Dutchie Vegliano. He said to me once while we were drinking some of his home made wine something I will never forget, "Money make you crazy." Simple words of profound wisdom.
#14955370
Istanbuller wrote:The United States and Trump administartion created this Saudi monster. You created this swamp. For this reason, it is up to you to clean this and reveal everything transparently.

So far, Erdıgan did everything. He made Saudis admit it.

The United States and Trump administration did not create any Saudi monster. The monster Jamal Khashoggi was created by the left wing news media and himself. In my view it is the left that created a lot of other swamp monsters too. There are bad people all over the world and the Saudi government appears to be preparing to drain some of those swamp creatures in their government. Every country has swamp creatures that need draining. There just needs to be more light to shine on them to identify them. Trump has come in and shed some light and has made the swamp rats squirm and run for cover.
#14955390
Hindsite wrote:The United States and Trump administration did not create any Saudi monster.
No, but they're feeding it and condoning their immoral acts. That's just as bad.

Hindsite wrote: Trump has come in and shed some light and has made the swamp rats squirm and run for cover.
Trump has filled the swamp with just more swamp rats. He hasn't shone a light on anything.
#14955399
Godstud wrote:No, but they're feeding it and condoning their immoral acts. That's just as bad.

I haven't noticed any immoral acts being condoned.

Godstud wrote:Trump has filled the swamp with just more swamp rats. He hasn't shone a light on anything.

You can't see the light in America because you live in Thailand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Thailand
#14955404
Hindsite wrote:I haven't noticed any immoral acts being condoned.
:eh: A Saudi assassination and dismemberment? You're trolling, right?

Maybe according to your lack of morality, this is nothing.

Hindsite wrote:You can't see the light in America because you live in Thailand.
And you'd clueless and oblivious to the obvious, because you're willfully ignorant.

Yes, there's corruption in Thailand. That's not what this thread is about, however. What's your point? This is just another "Whataboutism", right?

Stick to the topic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruptio ... ted_States
#14955420
Godstud wrote::eh: A Saudi assassination and dismemberment?

Maybe according to your lack of morality, this is nothing.

Well, it is not being condoned by America.

Godstud wrote:Yes, there's corruption in Thailand. That's not what this thread is about, however. What's your point?

The point is that the USA is less corrupt and more moral than Thailand. Therefore, you speak from a place of less moral authority than I do.
#14955428
American society’s top priority became its bottom line, net worth became synonymous with self-worth, and a billionaire businessman who repeatedly pointed to his own wealth as proof of his fitness for office was elected president

Yes. A president that can be bought. Whore of Babylon.




[center-img]http://i66.tinypic.com/1h9dza.jpg[/center-img]
#14955461
Donald Trump directly created the swamp in Saudi Arabia. There is a huge difference between former administration and current one. Former one was politically inactive.

The swamp creature called MBS is an American product. You created it and you are feeding it. Now you are giving him a free pass. Trump refers them as "my people".

Trump himself is also a wsamp creature now. He is no exception.
#14955532
Obama administration did not do anything like that. Obama eased sanctions on Iran. He put Israel in its place. But he did not do anything with Arabs. Instead he choosed to support Kurds in Syrian Civil War.

Former Saudi administration was on same axis with Turkey and Qatar. Current one is exact the opposite. Saudi Arabia was not a major arms buyer country under former king. All things started with new king and his "wrecking ball" son.
#14955583
Skripal and Khashoggi: A Comparison of Reactions
In the two weeks since the last sighting of Jamal Khashoggi, the Saudi dissident in exile employed as a Washington Post correspondent, much outrage has been expressed by the Western political and media establishment at the possibility of Riyadh’s involvement in his disappearance - with the journalist having last been seen entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul on the 2nd of October in order to finalise paperwork allowing him to marry his Turkish fiancée.

Appearing on CNN’s 60 Minutes, US President Donald Trump vowed ‘severe punishment’ for those responsible for the writer’s disappearance, Virgin media tycoon Richard Branson has suspended involvement in two Saudi-based tourism directorships, and the Future Investment Initiative (FII), a Riyadh-based high-level business summit intended to showcase Mohammad bin Salman’s modernisation plans for the oil rich Gulf Kingdom, has had numerous high-profile withdrawals as a result of the case.

As emphatic as this response has been to Khashoggi’s disappearance however, it has so far paled in comparison to the West’s reaction to the poisoning of Sergei Skripal, the former Russian intelligence officer who worked as a British double-agent, after he was found slumped on a Salisbury public bench with his daughter Yulia in March of this year.

A mere eight days after the attack on the former spy, an enraged Theresa May took to the House of Commons to allege Kremlin involvement in the incident (a claim that Downing Street still hasn’t substantiated more than seven months on), with the British Prime Minister ordering the expulsion of 23 Russian diplomats from the UK two days later, a measure that was also taken by the United States and 27 other countries in response to the Skripal poisoning; the largest expulsion of Russian diplomats from the West since the end of the Cold War and a move that has so far not been suggested will be used against Saudi Arabia in response to allegations of Riyadh’s involvement in the disappearance of Jamal Khashoggi.

This difference in reaction to both incidents is not unintentional however, and to understand why, one must take a deeper look at the wider geopolitical conditions at play in the West’s relationship with both Russia and Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia, the oil rich desert kingdom, has always maintained a good relationship with both Britain and the US; the world’s number one exporter of petroleum, it also imports weaponry worth billions each year from both countries, satisfying not only the desires of wealthy defence contractors but also allowing the US to use Riyadh as a bulwark against the influence of regional rival Iran – a long time Western foe since the 1979 Islamic Revolution replaced the Washington-backed Shah with the anti-American Ayatollah Khomeini.

Russia on the other hand however, has been diametrically opposed to the foreign policy aims of the US-NATO hegemony.

Following a request from the Syrian government of Bashar al-Assad in September 2015, a Russian air campaign began against the Western-backed Salafist militants who had laid waste to the secular nation since March 2011 in order to install a regime which would allow US-allied Qatar to construct a pipeline through the country.

This Russian air support played a key role in preventing the Syrian Arab Republic from falling victim to the catastrophic regime change consequences that had befell Libya just four years earlier; it also resulted in rampant Russophobia amongst Western establishment media that consequently led to calls for greater sanctions on Moscow following the attacking on Sergei Skripal.

Therefore, it would ultimately suggest that this differing approach to Western foreign policy by Riyadh and Moscow will see that the current furore over the case of Jamal Khashoggi will amount to nothing more than empty rhetoric by the West – a far different stance than that that was taken over the case of Sergei Skripal.
https://ahtribune.com/world/north-afric ... hoggi.html



Istanbuller wrote:Obama administration did not do anything like that.


The Saudis began their genocidal war on Yemen under Obama's watch. A war they wouldn't be able to start without the US giving the nod.

He put Israel in its place.


How? By allowing the last 3 wars on Gaza take place under his watch? By giving the nod to the continuous ethnic cleansing and settlement building in the occupied territories? By giving Israel the largest military package it had to date? :?:

But he did not do anything with Arabs. Instead he choosed to support Kurds in Syrian Civil War.


The US doesn't give a shit about the Kurds. He was supporting ISIS and similar groups in Syria as well though.

Saudi Arabia was not a major arms buyer country under former king. All things started with new king and his "wrecking ball" son.


That's not true at all. The Saudi royals have always been savages. This documentary covers the arms sales between the KSA and the UK.
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