EU-BREXIT - Page 69 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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User avatar
By Rugoz
#14963965
Rugoz wrote:If I understand correctly, it means the UK cannot get out of this temporary deal unilaterally...


I was wrong about this part, the backstop is basically a different arrangement, where the UK stays in the customs union and adopts some single market rules. Still, it seems to be more in the EU's interest, and weakens the UK's bargaining power for a final deal.
User avatar
By Nonsense
#14963968
Donald TUSK puts it as it is, "Since the very beginning, we have had no doubt that Brexit is a lose-lose situation, and that our negotiations are only about damage control," said Donald Tusk, President of the European Council, when he received the draft text of the agreement on 15 November.

For Theresa MAY to state that it's a 'good' or 'best' deal for the country, is a travesty of the truth, when the E.U have ALWAYS known it's a, 'lose-lose' situation.
'Half IN-Half OUT' is not delivering on the 2016 referendum result to EXIT the E.U.

That is NOT just a 'transition' draft deal, it will form the basis of any future trade deal & we will have paid the £39 BILLION to the E.U, BEFORE any 'possible' trade deal is agreed, on terms which may be even more onerous than this dogs breakfast called BREXIT.

The E.U has a history of changing rules or laws, once Treaties or Treaty 'amendments' have been agreed, at the expense of the other party's involved.
You cannot do a 'political' deal with the German dominated E.U, without knowing that it's not worth the paper it's written on, just as it was with HITLER et al CHAMBERLAIN, Soviet Union...

John GOVE is a 'political-snake-in-the-grass', he is NEVER to be trusted, he is an opportunist, who is looking after himself by remaining in the Cabinet, once MAY is out, GOVE & HAMMOND should immediately be ejected from their respective Cabinet positions.
User avatar
By Heisenberg
#14963976
The way you can tell Nonsense is taking this well is that his post includes HITLER in all caps.
User avatar
By anarchist23
#14963980
21 MPs have filed letters that we know of and 48 letters are required for a Tory vote of no confidence in Theresa Mays leadership.

This is a list of Conservative MPs who have publicly said they had sent in letters demanding a vote of no confidence in Theresa May’s leadership. Those named have released their letters on social media, or told the media they have sent in a letter.
A total of 48 MPs need to have written in for a vote to be triggered. The vote would be held a couple of working days after the threshold had been reached. May would then need to win the backing of half or more of her MPs – 158 – to ensure that she kept her job as party leader, and hence prime minister.
The true number of letters that have been sent in is almost certainly higher. There is no obligation for MPs to disclose whether they have sent in letters to the chairman of the party’s backbench 1922 Committee, Sir Graham Brady.
But Brady has no obligation to disclose how many letters have been sent to his office until the magic number of 48 is reached, whereupon he would tell May and publicly announce that a ballot would be held.
Ben Bradley (source: the Guardian, 15 November)
Jacob Rees-Mogg (source: the Guardian, 15 November)
Steve Baker (source: tweet of letter, 15 November)
Nadine Dorries (source: tweet, 15 November)
Andrew Bridgen (source: Ross Kempsell, tweet of letter on 10 July)
Mark Francois (hand-delivered on 16 November)
Sheryll Murray (source: tweet of letter, 15 November)
Simon Clarke (source: tweet, 15 November)
Andrea Jenkyns (sent in letter in July, press reports)
James Duddridge (source: the Sun, 3 October)
Anne Marie Morris (source: press reports, 15 November)
Peter Bone (source: the Guardian, 15 November)
Lee Rowley (source: ITV news, 15 November)
Philip Davies (source: Yorkshire Post, 19 July)
Henry Smith (source: tweet of letter, 15 November)
Martin Vickers (source: tweet 15 November saying letter was sent after Chequers meeting)
Laurence Robertson (source: own website, 15 November)
John Whittingdale (source: BBC 16 November)
Maria Caulfield (source: BBC, 16 November)
Adam Holloway (source: Kent Online, 16 November)
Chris Green (source: tweet, 16 November)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nce-in-may
User avatar
By Beren
#14963990
The Guardian wrote:46m ago
14:23

David Lidington, the Cabinet Office minister, has reportedly complained about Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister refusing to meet him in Edinburgh today.

She has described the accusation as “outrageous”, saying she was only offered a meeting at the last minute.


Purpose not clear - How about saving the cabinet?

Sorry, I have more important duties to do.

:lol:
User avatar
By anarchist23
#14963992
Theresa Mays power is draining away by the minute. She's dead in the water.

A vote of no confidence in Theresa May is now more than “likely”, as sources are claiming 48 letters have now been submitted. The editor of Brexit Central cited a single source on Friday saying the 48 letters from Conservative lawmakers needed to trigger a leadership challenge have been received by the chairman of the 1922 Committee, Graham Brady. Sky sources have said all government whips have been summoned to London.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... ny-letters



[center-img]http://i63.tinypic.com/o6h3te.jpg[/center-img]
By layman
#14963995
I doubt they have the votes to remove her.

I also honestly doubt any of the hard core want the job right now for the reasons I stated. You cannot do a hard brexit with the time allocated without chaos and suffering on a big scale. These people will never own that.

@ter project fear is real. We haven’t even left yet and investment has tanked, not to mention virtually every other metric going in the wrong direction.

This vs 0 benefits and 0 trade deals on the horizon and not a hint of what any benefits may be ....
User avatar
By Nonsense
#14963999
I had one of those vision's earlier today, not quite 'apocalypse now', but not too dissimilar.
Standing on the elevated foreshore, in the distance was what looked like a lighthouse, half submerged, it was actually 'Big Ben'.

My head turned slightly seaward, lo & behold, before my eyes, emerging from Oceanus Germanicus in the mist, a sailing vessel, the vessel 'Britannia', heading for Londinium, taking on water after a collision with the rocks of Terre Europia.

The whole crew could be observed swimming away from the vessel with all the speed that they could muster.

The 'captain', apparently a 'female' wearing an unfamiliar toga that is divided from the waste down to accommodate each leg separately, was at the helm, unaware that as she was steering the 'Britannia' towards rocks more treacherous than her reputation, the crew (MP's) were long out of earshot & sight
.
One could, if foolish enough to remain in earshot, hear Captain 'MAY' shouting aloud, crying out, "Man the pumps, Britannia expects every man to do his duty".

The cry was so loud that all the crew could hear that hellish sound of her voice & with no exception in true Anglo Saxon refrain, they, to a man, shouted back, "F*ck OFF" , looked down to where they hoped that Neptune would welcome them & headed into the deep, never to be seen again.

The 'captain', true to tradition, saved herself, only to go down with her ship alone on board what was once affectionately known as the 'Magnus Britannia', steering her back onto the rocks, where the Barbarians of Germania & Rome await the reward from the salvage, AKA vassalage.

Thereafter, Britannia ruled the waves from below, while the Barbarian tribe of Germania & Gaulle looked down at the wreck of the Britannia, shrugged their shoulders & said, "What the F*ck was that all about"? 8) :excited: :excited: :evil:
Last edited by Nonsense on 16 Nov 2018 16:50, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By anarchist23
#14964006
The Labour deputy leader Tom Watson has put himself at odds with Jeremy Corbyn by predicting that a second Brexit referendum was now “more likely” than ever before. His comments follow the hostile reception across the House of Commons to Theresa May’s draft agreement with Brussels over the terms of Britain’s withdrawal from the European Union. “I think it is more likely that we could get there” Tom Watson Labour’s official policy is to call for a general election if the Commons rejects her deal in a “meaningful vote”, but that the option of a so-called People’s Vote should remain on the absence if there is no election. ADVERTISING Mr Watson told the House magazine that it was now “more likely that we could get there” because of Mrs May’s weak position. Contrast to Corbyn His comments were in sharp contrast to Mr Corbyn’s declaration in a German magazine that Brexit “can’t be stopped”. Mr Watson said: “To restate the Labour conference position, we think for a complex deal like this the best way to assess its merits are in a meaningful vote. We need to really press very hard to make sure that whatever motion comes to the House can be amended. “If you get to the point, and it’s looking more likely, where Parliament cannot decide what the best option is, we think that’s the point where you go to the people in a general election. “They voted to leave the European Union, they didn’t vote for food shortages or problems with medical supplies or not to be able to sell goods to the European markets. They voted to bring sovereignty back to the UK.


Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/tom-wat ... than-ever/
User avatar
By ingliz
#14964009
layman wrote:I doubt they have the votes to remove her.

If May wins, she remains in office and cannot be challenged again for 12 months.

FT, The risks of a confidence vote in Theresa May, 15 Nov 2018 wrote:If the rebellion falls short of 159, Mrs May cannot be challenged for another year.


:lol:
Last edited by ingliz on 16 Nov 2018 16:43, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
By Nonsense
#14964010
Update -

Amber RUDD has just jumped back on board the sinking ship as DWP Secretary.

Any more 'rats' about?
Last edited by Nonsense on 16 Nov 2018 17:05, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Nonsense
#14964012
anarchist23 wrote:Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/tom-wat ... than-ever/


Just shows that politically, it pays to keep your 'friends' close to you & your enemies even closer.

I wouldn't ' trust him further than I could smell him, 'LEAVE' means LEAVE, one referendum decided the issue - finito.
By B0ycey
#14964016
ingliz wrote:If May wins, she remains in office and cannot be challenged again for 12 months.


The problem isn't who is in charge of the Tories but that unless we have a sizable number of MPs from other parties willing to back this deal, it isn't getting through parliament whether May remains defiant or not. So I am on the fence with this. As May is still ruling out a second referendum at the moment I wouldn't mind a leadership challenge for the small hope Ken Clarke might throw his name in the hat on a EUREF2 ticket and wins the damn raffle.

Desperate times equals desperate measures on hope. :angel:
User avatar
By Nonsense
#14964018
B0ycey wrote:The problem isn't who is in charge of the Tories but that unless we have a sizable number of MPs from other parties willing to back this deal, it isn't getting through parliament whether May remains defiant or not. So I am on the fence with this. As May is still ruling out a second referendum at the moment I wouldn't mind a leadership challenge for the small hope Ken Clarke might throw his name in the hat on a EUREF2 ticket and wins the damn raffle.

Desperate times equals desperate measures on hope. :angel:



Nonsense -

When you are that desperate, it's time to give up all hope. :lol: :lol:
By B0ycey
#14964019
I have given up hope nonsense. I don't know where May thinks her support is coming from so why is she flogging the dead horse? So we now have two choices, Hard Brexit or no Brexit. Time to let the public decide.
User avatar
By ingliz
#14964026
B0ycey wrote:The problem isn't who is in charge of the Tories

If May remains in office she may extend Article 50 and call another referendum rather than see no-deal by default.


:lol:
By layman
#14964028
@B0ycey you are correct as half in is pointless.

However, Mogg is firing blanks as looks like only around 20 of the 80 members of the erg have handed in letters. This is a major embarrassment for him personally.

They know fine well that while there is no majority for this deal, there is even less for no deal. Equally, there is no guarantee they can get one of their own into power.

So it’s stalemate which is why the people’s vote thing may simply have to happen. As @ingliz says, no deal crash out was only ever an empty threat of hers.
User avatar
By Albert
#14964030
B0ycey wrote:I have given up hope nonsense. I don't know where May thinks her support is coming from so why is she flogging the dead horse? So we now have two choices, Hard Brexit or no Brexit. Time to let the public decide.
The public has already decided by the peoples' referendum and direct democratic action at the ballot box. Leave means leave! Therefore her majesties loyal servants now need to make this into law.
By B0ycey
#14964035
ingliz wrote:If May remains in office she may extend Article 50 and call another referendum rather than see no-deal by default.


I suspect she will win the leadership challenge actually. But she has ruled out another referendum - which is the only play left. And no deal by default is the only thing left as the EU are not willing to negotiate and she maintains that view I'm afraid.
User avatar
By Albert
#14964040
Forget the EU, it needs Britain more then Britain needs the Fourth Reich. They are probably bluffing, if not then they will come to the bargaining table sooner or later anyways. May just does not have any balls, literally, hence it is best to have a man in charge at these crucial times. Better a king, the royal family should disband the parliament.
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