CFO of Huawei arrested in Canada - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14970793
One Degree wrote:Why should I care if Chicago gets a $3 billion skyscraper?

Really? Do you think it is me the one that cries every time "your jobs" go overseas because huge companies end up investing overseas instead? :lol: ROFL, the irony.

At least you are an honest liberal in saying poorer people should be happy richer people are taking over their neighborhoods. If they don’t like it, they should move to Montana or become a doctor. Lol.

Actually, you are wrong. You should read my post a little bit more careful or at least try to think a little bit.

After all, someone is making money and that is all that matters.

No, it does not. But progress matters. That is what has driven humanity to crawl out of the savannah into cities and to invent cars and airplanes and electricity and medicine. Ignorants buffoons like to pretend progress is a bad thing the same way they pretend that education is bad and that ignorance is virtuous but, newsflash to you, the vast majority of humanity disagrees with you and if you are going to be stubborn you, and those like you will continue to be the fringe. You cannot enjoy the benefits of progress while being a hindrance and expect to not be called out on your hypocrisy.
#14970798
XogGyux wrote:Really? Do you think it is me the one that cries every time "your jobs" go overseas because huge companies end up investing overseas instead? :lol: ROFL, the irony.


Actually, you are wrong. You should read my post a little bit more careful or at least try to think a little bit.


No, it does not. But progress matters. That is what has driven humanity to crawl out of the savannah into cities and to invent cars and airplanes and electricity and medicine. Ignorants buffoons like to pretend progress is a bad thing the same way they pretend that education is bad and that ignorance is virtuous but, newsflash to you, the vast majority of humanity disagrees with you and if you are going to be stubborn you, and those like you will continue to be the fringe. You cannot enjoy the benefits of progress while being a hindrance and expect to not be called out on your hypocrisy.

Our country is made up of a lot of different people. We need to provide a living for all of them, not just the ones that will make us richer. Our goal should be the people, not modernity for the sake of modernity. Allowing our manufacturing to go overseas because it was cheaper was pure stupidity or indifference to our people.
#14970814
One Degree wrote:Our country is made up of a lot of different people. We need to provide a living for all of them, not just the ones that will make us richer. Our goal should be the people, not modernity for the sake of modernity. Allowing our manufacturing to go overseas because it was cheaper was pure stupidity or indifference to our people.


And here is where you create the strawman (modernity for the sake of modernity) and try to steer the point out of focus. By enlarge there is no such thing as modernity for the sake of modernity as you tried to say, in general progress is actually for the sake of humanity and that is why the vast majority of people are in favor of it. Your iphone (or equivalent smartphone) did not come to be "for the sake of modernity", it developed as the industry kept adding useful features to phones (items that we carried all the time) to improve our productivity, save us time and even entertain us when bored. In the same way, LCDs/OLED screens were not created simply as a method to get a "more modern" TV compared to old tube-based CRT screens. Stop pretending. Unless you are some sort of oriental monk or an Amish or some kind of aboriginal tribe you are benefiting, and to a degree participating in the bettering of humanity through progress even when your expressions, statements and behavior indicate otherwise. Stop the hypocrisy.

Allowing our manufacturing to go overseas because it was cheaper was pure stupidity or indifference to our people.

Seriously what is it that you want... What is your ideal system?
You don't want people from other places to come to our country and invest/work in our country.
You don't want our companies to invest on other countries.
I don't see you, in particular, advocating for higher education and training of our citizens or investing in research and exploration. In fact, in general, conservatives tend to portray this "superiority of the ignorant man" picture (which of course it is completely ridiculous but they do it anyway).
How exactly do you expect the US to remain competitive then? No investment on education and research, our companies cannot take advantage of cheaper labor in other countries and cannot bring smart or hard workers to our countries. How do you pretend you can possibly compete. :knife:
You are advocating for a system that it is doomed to fail.
#14970817
XogGyux wrote:And here is where you create the strawman (modernity for the sake of modernity) and try to steer the point out of focus. By enlarge there is no such thing as modernity for the sake of modernity as you tried to say, in general progress is actually for the sake of humanity and that is why the vast majority of people are in favor of it. Your iphone (or equivalent smartphone) did not come to be "for the sake of modernity", it developed as the industry kept adding useful features to phones (items that we carried all the time) to improve our productivity, save us time and even entertain us when bored. In the same way, LCDs/OLED screens were not created simply as a method to get a "more modern" TV compared to old tube-based CRT screens. Stop pretending. Unless you are some sort of oriental monk or an Amish or some kind of aboriginal tribe you are benefiting, and to a degree participating in the bettering of humanity through progress even when your expressions, statements and behavior indicate otherwise. Stop the hypocrisy.


Seriously what is it that you want... What is your ideal system?
You don't want people from other places to come to our country and invest/work in our country.
You don't want our companies to invest on other countries.
I don't see you, in particular, advocating for higher education and training of our citizens or investing in research and exploration. In fact, in general, conservatives tend to portray this "superiority of the ignorant man" picture (which of course it is completely ridiculous but they do it anyway).
How exactly do you expect the US to remain competitive then? No investment on education and research, our companies cannot take advantage of cheaper labor in other countries and cannot bring smart or hard workers to our countries. How do you pretend you can possibly compete. :knife:
You are advocating for a system that it is doomed to fail.


Hard to reply to such silliness and misconceptions. I am all for education. All 5 of my kids have degrees. I was an educator. You need to quit stereotyping.
I am also aware college is not the best path for many. What about them?
There is no reason that America should not supply all level of jobs because we have all levels of people. Sticking them on welfare or in McDonalds because we eliminated their jobs is not what they need and we should not have done it to them. Pricing them out of their neighborhood is not helping them.
I don’t care if we are competitive. None of our toys make us any happier. I lived without them all and if anything I was happier without them, but I don’t resent them. They just aren’t that important to sacrifice people for.
#14970835
One Degree wrote:Hard to reply to such silliness and misconceptions. I am all for education. All 5 of my kids have degrees. I was an educator. You need to quit stereotyping.

Really? I could not tell. Maybe if you spent less time replying racists things in other threads and more time creating/posting your ideas about education and how in your views it could be improved I'd have a better understanding of your views. :lol: Stop pretending.

I am also aware college is not the best path for many. What about them?

That's true and still does not solve the problem. To stay competitive you can either produce cheaper or produce better. You are opposed to the 2 solutions to produce cheaper. To produce better you need research, intellect, knowledge and education.

There is no reason that America should not supply all level of jobs because we have all levels of people. Sticking them on welfare or in McDonalds because we eliminated their jobs is not what they need and we should not have done it to them.

WTF you are talking about. We supply all levels of jobs. The culture in this country is that of laziness and self entitlement. There are plenty of oportunities for highly trained professions and the demand for workers is frankly too high for US-born people to fill it. And as for the other end? Even for the simplest, no-skill-required, job, our people are too spoiled to even consider them or to keep them, they do not appreciate the job, they don't do it right what makes you think they are entitled to it?
Our problem is a problem of mindset and not a problem of lack of jobs. There are PLENTY of jobs out there just there are plenty more of people that think they are too good for those jobs and don't appreciate them when they are, in fact, too shitty for those jobs.
Pricing them out of their neighborhood is not helping them.

The ones that end up having to move out of their neighborhood for financial reasons are the ones that priced THEMSELVES out by failing into our social/economic system. Like I said, you people love capitalism, but sure as hell love to complain when you draw the short stick in the system.
A small town in the middle of nowhere is cheap. Suddenly starts seeing the business boom and people moving in. The reasonable thing to expect is that such town that is improving economically will soon start becoming progressively more expensive to live in. Again, if you own property in that town, you will benefit greatly as well, your property will also increase in price as the rest of the town does. If you don't care for a more "progressive, modern city" then you can always cash in your profit and move to a smaller town where it is cheaper. The problem is you want to cash in on all the benefits while not paying the price. You think you are entitled to a differential treatment, when in fact, you are not.
I don’t care if we are competitive.

Of course, you do. I'll pretend you didn't say something as stupid as the above quote and move along because I think this goes beyond stupid at this point. Stop trolling.

None of our toys make us any happier.

Again... nonsense. Ofcourse they make us happier. Stop talking non-sense or put your money where your mouth is. If you don't care for your toys and all you care is humanity why don't you cash in your wealth and everything about the bare essentials into helping someone less fortunate?
I lived without them all and if anything I was happier without them, but I don’t resent them.

Wait what? You were happier without them? Why woulnd't you give them up then. Seriously, are you purposedly being unhappy ON PURPOSE? what kind of idiocy are you talking about.
This is how I know you are not being sincere. :knife: hypocresy 101.

They just aren’t that important to sacrifice people for.

So you care a lot about other people right? I then would care to guess that you are a supporter of universal healthcare and universal higher education for everyone in the US right? :lol: :knife:
#14970844
Like so many today, you believe economics is our God to be served. You simply can’t see beyond money. This is not a personal insult but simply pointing out we have been convinced to believe it is more important than it is.
Yes, many of our people are lazy and thieves. They weren’t born this way. We created them. Our affluence you are so proud of also allowed us not to demand more of them. We became ‘compassionate’ and ‘understanding’. We paid them not to work instead of supplying work.
I got rid of my money and could put the possessions I care about in a box, but that is not what I said or recommend for everybody. I said I simply don’t think they are important. Enjoy them, but don’t live your life just so you can purchase them. Quit looking to the economy as the solution to a better life. I don’t mean reject money but prioritize. Would it be so terrible if your TV cost twice as much but we still employed thousands making them? Why have another country make them?
Your figures on unemployment disregard the simple fact it only includes people looking for a job, not all the unemployed. We have plenty of people to work.
#14970853
One Degree wrote:Like so many today, you believe economics is our God to be served. You simply can’t see beyond money. This is not a personal insult but simply pointing out we have been convinced to believe it is more important than it is.

First of all, you are no authority to tell what I believe or I do not believe. Second drop the charade, the lies and deception. I called your bluff, your bullshit. If you are such a humanist, get rid of your material possessions and go help the poor. I can't believe you are the same person that was proposed to shoot poor desperate HUMAN immigrants because they were crossing a border just a few days ago in a different thread. Of all the people in the world, believe me, you are in the bottom 1% of whom I'd consider taking advice on moral integrity. Just your support for such a despicable orange buffoon already disqualify you, the rest is just a bonus.

Yes, many of our people are lazy and thieves.

That is step one. Recognize the problem. Everything else is a distraction.

We created them.

I completely agree with you. Now, the solution is not to scapegoat something else and chase our tails trying to fix a different problem that is NOT a problem. Tired of seeing TV politicians, movies and just about everyone selling "American dream" as if you are entitled to it and as if you don't have to work hard for it. Back when "the American dream" was a thing and the "middle class" was created, people actually worked hard, long hours and worked to better themselves. There was a time we were leaders in technology, all countries would look at us and be 10 years behind.
I will help anyone, and I will put effort. I will share my time, knowledge and wealth but there is 1 condition, you also have to put as much effort if not more effort than me. I will not carry you on my shoulders. (and yes, I am not literally talking about you, this is a "general" you).

I said I simply don’t think they are important.

Like I said. I'm calling your bluff. If you really mean what you said I'd expect you never post in this forum because you stopped paying for internet and sold your computer to aid a poor kid in Africa with AIDS. If I see you post again, you better stop bringing this nonsense that you obviously don't even believe for yourself and stop acting like a moral schmuck.

Enjoy them, but don’t live your life just so you can purchase them. Quit looking to the economy as the solution to a better life.

The economy is the fuel. The car is progress. The economy is what fuels progress in our society. At some point in our future, perhaps hundreds if not thousands of years in the future, assuming that we have not wiped ourselves or died to some kind of cataclysm, we might find ourselves into a post-scarcity world. At such point, the economy will likely look dramatically different or even be completely replaced. however PROGRESS will continue, at this point driven by other goals (e.g. curiosity, general goodness, etc).
As usual you have created a strawman and attacked it. Too bad what you have said does not in any way address my point.

Would it be so terrible if your TV cost twice as much but we still employed thousands making them?

For the same quality, longevity and "specs" as foreign made one? Yes. You are trying to lecture me, and pretending that you care more about people than material things but you fail to realize that just as the TV made in the US, the TV made in china or mexico or india is also made by people. Arguably people that are far worse off than the worse here. So by that simplistic logic, I should in fact be obligated to buy the cheaper one because the workers making them are in far greater need and because it would allow me to spend the other half of the money that could have gone for 1 tv into buying a second one. And at this point I am helping 2x indian people instead of 1 american one furthermore arguably they need it more.
Of course, this is not what happens in real life. For one, helping people in my country also benefits me, because it is money that remains inside my community and eventually part of it returns to my pocket. I'll be the first to admit that it is a bit selfish but so be it. If I had the choice to buy two otherwise identical products in term of quality, characteristics, etc. I would always choose the one made locally because of that (that is, assuming I had the information. Part of the complexity for this question is the fact that we usually do not have all the variables. For instance, the Japanese brand car might actually be 100% assembled and produced in the US while the US branded one exports parts from china/india and is half assembled in Mexico, etc. and we not always have all the information but rather just a "perception"). But again, reality is nuanced and you seem to have some trouble understanding it.

Would it be so terrible if your TV cost twice as much but we still employed thousands making them? Why have another country make them?

I bolded the important bits. You answered your own question. You have another country make them because they are half as expensive to do so. Not hard at all. It is called capitalism.

Your figures on unemployment disregard the simple fact it only includes people looking for a job, not all the unemployed.

That's the only figure that matters. I don't care for the 3 years old that is "unemployed" or the 70 year old that is retired and also "unemployed" or the rich guy that is just living his fortune and it is also "unemployed" or the stay-at-home mom (or dad?) that works at home while spouse brings the money.

We have plenty of people to work.

Why aren't they?
#14970857
My iPad was a gift so my kids and grandkids could FaceTime me. I get my internet from a neighbor. I have rabbit ears for my tv. This has nothing to do with what I think we should do as a country however. Your obsession with me personally is not an argument for policies.
I am not a globalist. I believe in helping my community and letting the rest of the world find their own solutions. I can only set an example for them with my community.
They don’t need my help. They know what is best for them. They can make their TVs and we can make ours. Both of us have people who need the work.
#14970862
One Degree wrote:My iPad was a gift so my kids and grandkids could FaceTime me. I get my internet from a neighbor. I have rabbit ears for my tv.

I think you misunderstand me. First, you don't need to justify yourself about how little "resources" you use because like I pointed out, what you brought up was a strawman. I do not think that having wealth and having luxuries in life is wrong, you brought the point and I pointed out how ridiculous that it is. There is always going to be a more unfortunate poor person than yourself. If you are a 10-year-old HIV (+) hungry kid in africa, guess what, there is another HIV (+) with parasites in his belly and blind. I don't strive to bring everyone down to the mean, I strive to raise the ones below the mean, and then to raise the mean altogether. The truth is, with a little bit more of hard work and human ingenuity we could do great things.

Your obsession with me personally is not an argument for policies.

Quite the oposite. I don't care a bit for you. First, I don't know you so that depersonalizes you, on top of that, your posts are full of shit which makes me believe you don't even care for what you post, for all I can tell you are just a troll. Your ideas is what bothers me because some silly idiotic kid searching the web for a school assignment might come up to the forum after a google search (that's how I actually joined this forum :p) and read some of the stupid posts and get the wrong impression. Bad ideas need to be confronted. Stop bringing bad ideas and sure enough, you will find me on your side.

They can make their TVs and we can make ours. Both of us have people who need the work.

Congratulations, you just tried to simplify the whole world economy to essentially a kindergarten play room. Jimmy, you build your lego tower on the left, Andrew you build yours on the right. The world is not simple, we need global trade because not all resources are located equally spaced on the glove.
And even if we could get a machine and equally redistribute all resources so there was no need to trade and everyone got everything they needed to stay on their countries and not move, the world would be a lesser place without the exchange of knowledge, cultures, and ideas. Your solution is not only simplistic and moronic but also unrealistic and quite frankly scary.
#14970864
I think you misunderstand me. First, you don't need to justify yourself about how little "resources" you use because like I pointed out, what you brought up was a strawman. I do not think that having wealth and having luxuries in life is wrong, you brought the point and I pointed out how ridiculous that it is. There is always going to be a more unfortunate poor person than yourself. If you are a 10-year-old HIV (+) hungry kid in africa, guess what, there is another HIV (+) with parasites in his belly and blind. I don't strive to bring everyone down to the mean, I strive to raise the ones below the mean, and then to raise the mean altogether. The truth is, with a little bit more of hard work and human ingenuity we could do great things.

I never said having wealth was wrong. I said we give it too much priority in our decisions. Please argue against what I actually say.

Quite the oposite. I don't care a bit for you. First, I don't know you so that depersonalizes you, on top of that, your posts are full of shit which makes me believe you don't even care for what you post, for all I can tell you are just a troll. Your ideas is what bothers me because some silly idiotic kid searching the web for a school assignment might come up to the forum after a google search (that's how I actually joined this forum :p) and read some of the stupid posts and get the wrong impression. Bad ideas need to be confronted. Stop bringing bad ideas and sure enough, you will find me on your side.

You just wrote a paragraph that didn’t confront a single idea. It is amusing how often people confuse insults with arguments.

Congratulations, you just tried to simplify the whole world economy to essentially a kindergarten play room. Jimmy, you build your lego tower on the left, Andrew you build yours on the right. The world is not simple, we need global trade because not all resources are located equally spaced on the glove.
And even if we could get a machine and equally redistribute all resources so there was no need to trade and everyone got everything they needed to stay on their countries and not move, the world would be a lesser place without the exchange of knowledge, cultures, and ideas. Your solution is not only simplistic and moronic but also unrealistic and quite frankly scary.

Technology should allow fewer people to be self sufficient. It makes no sense to use technology to make people less self sufficient. Why would you want a system where a mistake destroys everyone. That is moronic. We are well aware of the practicality of modules and redundancy. Why not apply it to society?
Being self sufficient does not require isolation. That is just a common fallacy used by globalists to discourage greater autonomy. The internet will not disappear if we make our own TVs.
#14970951
One Degree wrote:Her teenage son goes to school in Boston while she has avoided the US because she knew she would be arrested. It is a screwed up world where many support and undermine countries simultaneously.

Did she already have a warrant in the US when her child moved to Boston and enrolled in school or did she decide not to force her child to leave school and have his education disrupted after the warrant was issued?
#14970956
AFAIK wrote:Did she already have a warrant in the US when her child moved to Boston and enrolled in school or did she decide not to force her child to leave school and have his education disrupted after the warrant was issued?


I don’t have that information. Why does it matter?
#14970959
AFAIK wrote:One scenario is more hypocritical than the other.


I guess we have to assume guilt before making any judgement at all. Assuming guilt, she was aware of her actions before any warrant was issued, so it is a moot point when he came to the US.
#14970976
Business communities in the US and EU are starting to get behind Trumps anti-China stance. I"m sure Canada is on board, and Trudeau is just feigning and using the plausible deniability.
#14970984
On a side note, this is once again a nice example of nepotism.
The daughter of the founder of Huawei happens to have the right kind of abilities to be CFO of the company, or should we conclude that this job could be done by a number of other people ?
#14970986
Ter wrote:On a side note, this is once again a nice example of nepotism.
The daughter of the founder of Huawei happens to have the right kind of abilities to be CFO of the company, or should we conclude that this job could be done by a number of other people ?


Your guess is probably right.

Nepotism is huge in East Asia. East Asian cultures are much more about family over the individual. Actually, my thesis has always been, this is precisely why the Chinese government is able to have such control over the population. The culture is very steeped in the concepts of hierarchies. THe mind set is right to create a paternal system of government that people will accept.

Chinese government is a perfect government for that culture.
#14971028
Ter wrote:On a side note, this is once again a nice example of nepotism.
The daughter of the founder of Huawei happens to have the right kind of abilities to be CFO of the company, or should we conclude that this job could be done by a number of other people ?

She's most likely smart and talented, and rather capable, though not capable enough not to fall afoul of the law.

Based on the allegations, what she's accused of is not really that extraordinary in the context of China, where innovative means of cheating sometimes are needed.

It doesn't fly in the US, though.

I still think politics is a part of the situation. There seem to be a lot of technicalities present in the situation.

It's a complex case. I also don't think it's worth it. The toothpaste is already out of the tube though.
#14971219
Singapore's Prime Minister is the son of the previous PM. I don't think nepotism and cronyism is that big of an issue for many East Asians although they are often very meritocratic as well. You have to be qualified to get the CFO position but if 10 qualified applicants turn up, the daughter of the CEO has a better chance than those without connections.

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