[maz]

This has nothing to do with what we were discussing. I notice many right wingers completely abandon the previous topic and launch a new one whenever they lose a point.

It is weird that in one post you are complaining about Verve posting something you claim has nothing to do with the discussion, and in the same thread you post something about you and your family, which has nothing to do with the discussion.

Please note that the killer himself advocates an ideology where political discourse would be forbidden, and people like me and my family would be sent to death camps.

By the way, what exactly are you and your family and why would James Fields want to send you to death camps?

[Hindsite]

:roll: Do you have a source to corroborate this idiotic theory? Do you have any facts to support this, or is this more defense of the indefensible, on your part?

Yes, common sense is my main source.
Praise the Lord.

[SpecialOlympian]

This has nothing to do with what we were discussing. I notice many right wingers completely abandon the previous topic and launch a new one whenever they lose a point.

[Verv]

Those are riding lights, not brake lights. ALL lights at the back light up when the brakes are applied. This is common to all cars of that year, model and make.

Why does this stationary 2010 Dodge Charger, that is on, have only the outer lights illuminated during day time..?



Because they are the break lights that have turned on, and they are not daytime running lights.

You can refer to the image on page 3 attached to the video of Fields car with the same lights illumined indicating breaking.

[maz]

I am not saying that the break issue is Godstud posted was wrong, but I would like to know what causes the running lights from going from illuminated to not illuminated within seconds.

[SpecialOlympian]

Why does this stationary 2010 Dodge Charger, that is on, have only the outer lights illuminated during day time..?



Because they are the break lights that have turned on, and they are not daytime running lights.

You can refer to the image on page 3 attached to the video of Fields car with the same lights illumined indicating breaking.

The car is parked, Verv. You can see the parking meter station right behind it.

[Hindsite]

The car is parked, Verv. You can see the parking meter station right behind it.

One can still have the brakes applied while parking.
If you look at the pictures on page 8 of this thread, you can compare how the tail lights look when the brakes are applied and when they are not applied. That proves Godstud wrong in this case.
HalleluYah

[Verv]

@SpecialOlympian , I am curious...

Do you think that the 'Alt Right' does not deserve free speech or the right to assemble freely?

You posted a meme that is literally making fun of the idea of not supporting the right of people to organize in a free country, as if peopel who said that would be those folks in disguise, and not just people who believed in political freedoms that have commonly been held to be human rights throughout the whole history of the nation...

I don't really get it. How is that persuasive.

[redcarpet]

Wow! People trying to justify and downplay a brazen murder! Just when you think you've seen it all......

[SpecialOlympian]

@Verv It's mocking folks like you and Maz, that might be why the obvious message went flying over your head.

[Pants-of-dog]

It is weird that in one post you are complaining about Verve posting something you claim has nothing to do with the discussion, and in the same thread you post something about you and your family, which has nothing to do with the discussion.

By the way, what exactly are you and your family and why would James Fields want to send you to death camps?

My point is that all the people who are defending this racist murderer are completely ignoring the fact that the racist murderer actually embodies the very ideological positions that his defenders supposedly oppose.

Mind you, this whole tangent about how Verv is supposedly affronted by people opposing this racist murderer is irrelevant.

As for this whole brake light thing:

Ryan Kelly, who at the time worked for The Daily Progress in Charlottesville, said he was taking pictures at the violent white nationalist rally on Aug. 12, 2017, when he saw a gray Dodge Challenger reversing uphill on the one-way street at a pedestrian mall.

“I thought it was trying to get out of the way,” he said.

Moments later, Kelly heard tires screeching and saw the car speeding past him directly toward counterprotesters. He instinctively pointed his camera toward the car and began shooting.

“I heard thuds, screams and cries,” said Kelly, who won a Pulitzer Prize for one of his photos, which showed bodies flying at the moment of impact.

...

Kelly described following a large crowd marching through downtown several hours after authorities declared the rally an unlawful assembly.

Kelly said he saw the vehicle accelerate the whole way toward the crowd, but defense attorney Denise Lunsford contested that account.

She said some of the images appeared to show his brake lights come on moments before he struck the crowd and ultimately rammed into another car that was stopped behind another vehicle in the middle of the crowd.

During redirect questioning, prosecutor Nina-Alice Antony had Kelly go through the images one by one — he took more than 70 photos in just a few seconds — to identify where they first showed brake lights. It was only after the photographs showed Fields’ vehicle colliding with the crowd that Kelly pointed to what he referred to as “reverse lights.”

....

Here is the Pulitzer prize winning photo:



Please note the brake light is not on.

[Verv]

Right, POD: it occurred after his vehicle was smacked with a bar or bat, theoretically, though the jury is out on that one.

It was on a one way street and it is also thought that he was attacked at an intersection prior to this event. However, there is no evidence of this (and there would not necessarily be), and I am not sure what was said in court.

This break light drama is also very interesting because one second it isn't a break light, it's a daytime riding light, and in another it clearly is a break light not on in this picture... And we have a picture of a stationary Dodge Charger 2010 with the break lights on (not all four taillights alight), and another where all taillights are on at night and also stationary. To complicate issues further, some vehicles allow you to determine whether or not your riding lights are on or not...

Because the lights change, though, we should perhaps conclude that they were break lights, as otherwise they would constantly be on, right?

So the narrative would be something like...

At one point Fields is hesitant and not wanting to go forward, and at another he has gone forward rapidly. This may have occurred at a point where theoretically he was hit by the bat or bar. Regardless, he ends up going forward, reaching a speed of 28 MPH -- for reference, this is the fastest speed that a human being has ever run at (Usain Bolt).

Perhaps it is a scenario where Fields felt threatened on the one way, and did not want to go backwards because he felt attacked from the back (both from the bat/bar and from being assaulted at an intersection earlier), and in the panic he just proceeds forward, perhaps hoping that people will make a path, and having no idea how deep the crowd marching on the street is...

It is also possible that there was no assault at an intersection earlier, and that the bat/bar that hits the back of his vehicle hit ti while he was already in the process of moving towards the crowd and determined to ram into them.

These are honestly very important questions, and the fact that they were not central in the media, and we did not even get the final speed of the vehicle, and we had reporters deleting tweets about what they knew from it that cast an exonerating light on Fields, all serve to make this look like a lot of people have been misled about the situation.

[Pants-of-dog]

There are many vague claims in that post.

Let us start with the first one.

Please provide evidence for your claim that the car was struck with a bat.

[JohnRawls]

@Verv
Well, here we go again and again grasping at straws:

1) He used the breaks(No he didn't)
2) It is self-defense (Self-defense from what? He wasn't threatened until he started ramming the crowd. Are people trying to imply that he was so threatened that he panicked and by pseudo random chance managed to arrive in the same place as the protesters. The self-defense argument can only fly if you manage to prove that he was threatened before the act/attack in a real and a meningful way. Also you need to prove that he had no other alternative. If you gonna imply that he was threatened during act/during the execution then no shit sherlock. Also if he had alternatives to go besides the crowd then it is still ILL intent + messages = first degree murder People are not gonna be happy when you are speeding at 30km/h at the crowd or backing out after hitting 40+ people) Self defense implies that there is a threat to you before you actually become a threat to somebody else. (Very very simple explanation) So the argument that it was self-defense can only be used for the protesters. They had the right to hit his car with a bat but it doesn't work the other way around.
3) It is an inside job. (DUUUUHhhhhhhhhhh. Gotta eat more of that chilli sauce...)

[blackjack21]

Yes, many torch-carrying douchebags from all over the country descended to Charlottesville to show the community what for, for taking down a statue. There was violence and intimidation all day (with all the open carrying of guns, rifles and more). University grounds were attacked. Churches were attacked. Guys were jumped and beaten bloody. A scumbag drove his car into a group of people, killing one.

That was the third march. The first one happened two months earlier, was peaceful, and there were no counter protesters. That bothered the mayor of Charlottesville. Then, they repeated the march a month later, and the counter protests began, but it was only counter protesters who were arrested. I don't know why you have remained ignorant of these facts, as they were discussed at length on PoFo before the moderators shut down the thread.

Going to need a citation for this shit.

See the original thread on Charlottesville. It has been asked and answered before.

Ibid to the rest of the citation requests.

"obviously mentally ill" for white terrorists is nonsense.

From your perspective, perhaps. Fields had a history of mental illness as diagnosed by medical professionals, not just according to PoFo commenters.

Fields sounds like a loser but that is not proof of murder one deserving life plus 417 years. That sentence was a message to the right.

That was the whole point of the government's ops and of these threads. What is the message to Bernie Sanders supporters about the guy who shot Steve Scalise? Probably nothing. Why haven't they found Seth Rich's killer yet?

One the key findings is that the police intentionally let the event spiral out of control by forcing the two groups to confront each other.

Yes, and it's the chief of police that takes the hit for what was directed by elected political officers--who did not face any consequences.

I am still waiting for someone to deny it is normal to be frightened when surrounded by adversaries?

They aren't very interested in why these peaceful counter protesters had baseball bats at the ready. I'm sure they were all just very athletic and sports-minded people.

[JohnRawls]

There are many vague claims in that post.

Let us start with the first one.

Please provide evidence for your claim that the car was struck with a bat.

It was struck with a bat but it was during the act or after it. I remember seeing the video. This does not really fall under self-defense thought for him because that is not how self-defense works.

[Godstud]

Brakes leave skid marks when applied hard... even at 28 mph. There are no skid marks, which means there was no attempt to stop. This argument is complete bullshit, and you know it. It's also irrelevant, as it would be AFTER he'd already struck people.

Your "important questions" are complete rubbish. It's likely that the car could not accelerate faster than 28 mph, given the distance it travelled, before striking the protesters. I suppose the protesters are lucky he didn't take a longer run at them...

Fuck your defense of this asshole, Verv. It's pathetic.

[One Degree]

Brakes leave skid marks when applied hard... even at 28 mph. There are no skid marks, which means there was no attempt to stop. This argument is complete bullshit, and you know it. It's also irrelevant, as it would be AFTER he'd already struck people.

Your "important questions" are complete rubbish. It's likely that the car could not accelerate faster than 28 mph, given the distance it travelled, before striking the protesters. I suppose the protesters are lucky he didn't take a longer run at them...

Fuck your defense of this asshole, Verv. It's pathetic.

Anto lock brakes on newer cars like this don’t skid.

[Godstud]

They leave skid marks if you hammer on the brakes. When's the last time you drove a car?? It's a 250 hp muscle car, not a Toyota Yaris. Also, vehicles equipped with ABS brakes will in fact leave faint tire marks on the roadway when the ABS system is activated.

The excuses you people are making are ridiculous! A guy, on his brakes, accelerates to 28 mph. How does that work? You guys toss physics right out the window with your idiotic theories and conjectures.

[One Degree]

:lol: They leave skid marks if you hammer on the brakes. When's the last time you drove a car?? It's a 250 hp muscle car, not a Toyota Yaris. Also, vehicles equipped with ABS brakes will in fact leave faint tire marks on the roadway when the ABS system is activated.

The excuses you people are making are ridiculous! A guy, on his brakes, accelerates to 28 mph. How does that work? You guys toss physics right out the window with your idiotic theories and conjectures.

I drove for a lot of years and don’t ever remember skidding applying the brakes at such slow speeds on dry pavement. Remember 28 is the top speed that has been estimated. Exactly, it is a muscle car which is why the tires and brakes would have no problem stopping without skidding. It was designed for it. It is also why it doesn’t need to back up to get a running start. It has all the power required without backing up.