Rich wrote:Its brilliantly entertaining, I've seen nothing like this since Dirty Den went back to EastEnders. But more seriously I think this could end up being profoundly good for British democracy. The British people are being treated to a painful lesson in reality. Unlike left and right fascists I support a losers vote. I support a proportional representation vote for Parliament every 2 years. I support a losers vote every two years, regardless of whether the winners of the previous election have fulfilled their manifesto. I support a losers vote even if the losers have frustrated and not cooperated with the winners of the previous election in fulfilling their election manifesto. This is very different from fascists, Marxist and Islamists who support the principle of one person, one vote, one time.
What do you mean by 'losers vote'?
More broadly. certainly the hard Brexiters won't admit their campaign was distorted by Russia via Cambridge Analytica, repeated lies, as well as exploiting sheer ignorance of voters about EU institutions and how they work. This is known and has been
for years (eg. 2002);
Reasons for disconnection
12. Many reasons have been suggested for the disconnection between citizens and EU institutions, some of which have been touched on already. The Commission's list includes a perceived inability of the EU to act effectively where a clear case exists, the EU not obtaining the credit when it does act effectively, Member States blaming 'Brussels' for decisions they have agreed to themselves, and lack of understanding about the EU institutions; the EU 'is often seen as remote and at the same time too intrusive'.[19] The Minister for Europe (Peter Hain) listed a general trend towards non-participation, euro-jargon, lack of involvement of national parliaments, over-emphasis on institutional changes at the expense of delivering practical benefits, confusion over who does what, lack of consultation, and worries about excessive EU interference.[20] Other reasons offered have included the opaqueness and complexity of EU law-making, a perception that the EU is undermining democracy and national sovereignty, lack of emotional commitment to the EU and (at least in the UK) lack of media coverage and the nature of such coverage as there is.[21]
There is no point in me asking a British tabloid writer, or reader, or UKIP member to 'define an imposed decision on the UK from the EU'. The obvious answer is 'any decision I disagree with'. Even if it's not a 'decision' but a
recommendation.
A more specific, regular lie, is, that I always see spouted whenever written/spoken about, is that an EU Directive is 100% obligatory.
Ahh, that's a half-lie;
Directive (European Union)
A directive is a legal act of the European Union[1] which requires member states to achieve a particular result without dictating the means of achieving that result. It can be distinguished from regulations, which are self-executing and do not require any implementing measures. Directives normally leave member states with a certain amount of leeway as to the exact rules to be adopted. Directives can be adopted by means of a variety of legislative procedures depending on their subject matter.
The text of a draft directive (if subject to the co-decision process, as contentious matters usually are) is prepared by the Commission after consultation with its own and national experts. The draft is presented to the Parliament and the Council—composed of relevant ministers of member governments, initially for evaluation and comment then subsequently for approval or rejection.
Or that more broadly that the UK is '
dictated to by Brussels most of the time'. That's not correct.
According to Sara Hagemann of UK in a Changing Europe: It is incorrect to say that the UK consistently loses in the EU.
Since 1999, when decision records became available from the EU Council where governments meet to negotiate and adopt policies, the UK has been in the minority (voting "No") on 57 legislative acts.
It has supported - and hence been in the majority - on 2,474 acts, and abstained on 70 occasions.
It is true that the UK votes against the majority more frequently than other member states, in particular during the last few years of David Cameron’s Government. But the UK is not consistently outvoted in the EU.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/22/eu-referendum-fact-checking-the-big-claims1/
For once I agree with the
Daily Telegraph, lol. These people want to pretend that most of the time that like, all of a sudden a EU Commissioner makes a Directive announcement, and is 'imposing' it on the UK, etc. Even if we are talking about an EU Directive, the means is voluntary, and there's previous meetings, which, as the trend shows, the UK mostly votes in favour.
If you mean 'imposed' when it's compulsory, well, that sounds like an emotional political swearword. Like losing a court case and denouncing a judge for 'imposing' a ruling on you.
"Why is it always the innocents who suffer most, when you high lords play your game of thrones?"
Lord Varys,
Game of Thrones.