[SSDR]

@Ter, I am against Zionism, but I am no far right wing idiot who believes in the Zionist Occupation Government conspiracy theory. People who believe in that are dangerous. I am a socialist, and people who believe in the ZOG believe that "socialism was created by the Jews to rule the world." Or some bullshit like that.

[redcarpet]

If you oppose the invasion of Iraq then you're defending Saddam Hussein. You're supporting him! You're an appeaser!


..............

Sound familiar???

Some left-wing posters here were denouncing the Neo-Con rhetoric such as that and now............employ it. Hypocrites! Shame on you!

[Hong Wu]

Headlines lately are that some border guards from Venezuela defected seeking asylum and that Maduro's forces lit four trucks carrying foreign aid on fire. I've found the refusal to accept foreign aid disturbing.

[Taurean Reign]

They have the right to refuse, like how trump refuse foreign aid for Puerto Ricans.

[B0ycey]

If oil and opposition to US hegemony aren't the issues why has Trump chosen Venezuela and not the plethora of countries that have issues with democracy and humanitarianism. @JohnRawls Do you think Venezuela is the only country (even just in Latin America) where people have problems with the government and have suffering?

This.

When the claim is that Maduro is so bad he must be toppled you have got to ask why he is so damn special?

https://planetrulers.com/current-dictators/

Do people think the rest of the world is the mirror image of the West or something?

Venezuela is only special because it has oil and is not Pro America. The same as Iran - another nation up for new US sanctions on a weekly basis. And Iraq, Syria and Libya before them. Only a US butt sniffing fool would believe this has nothing to do with oil. What? Because US franking is lucrative? Is the Petro Dollar not or something? If OPEC decided to take payment is Euros the US is fucked, floating in excess Dollars. But rather than woo Venezuela they are looking for civil war and new puppets to rule the nation because that is the American thing to do.

Imperialism never stops. It just evolves, looking for the next puppet to bow before it.

[Rugoz]

When the claim is that Maduro is so bad he must be toppled you have got to ask why he is so damn special?

https://planetrulers.com/current-dictators/

If you limit the selection to Americas, you'll see that Venezuela is one of 3 left and the only major country.

As for the oil, the US hasn't taken it anywhere it intervened in the recent past. Which is a shame, since Venezuelans would be better off in the long term if somebody took it away from them.

The US' motivation is pretty obvious, limiting Chinese or Russian influence in the region. Also Trump hates refugees, Venezuela produces tons of them.

Overall I'm pretty indifferent about this intervention. Maduro's rule is a disaster, but a violent transition won't necessarily improve on it. If the US (and almost all of SA) manage to make the junta go peacefully, the choice is clear though.

[Heisenberg]

I know the theory Beren. But i am asking in this case, particular for this Venezuelan instance at this point of time and space, what is the imperialist goal? What can current Venezuela offer US as a colony right now what it is not already doing?

Work force? (You know how Trump is regarding this)
Place to invest? (Well, Venezuela really needs this right now actually)

What are those bad things that the US wants to do at the expense of the well being of the Venezuelan people? Or is it perhaps a more of a win-win situation right now. (If you are not Maduro obviously)

You cannot be this dense. What possible imperialist goal could the US have in the country with the world's largest known oil reserves?

John Bolton said very clearly on Fox News that the goal is for US companies to take control of Venezuelan oil reserves. This is straight from the horse's mouth.

[B0ycey]

If you limit the selection to Americas, you'll see that Venezuela is one of 3 left and the only major country.

So fucking what? You think Venezuela is special because it is in the Americas? Did you think that about Iraq, Libya and Syria as well?

The point still stands. If America wants to save the world from terrible leaders they best start off in Africa where there are shit loads with plenty of starving nationals.

As for the oil, the US hasn't taken it anywhere it intervened in the recent past. Which is a shame, since Venezuelans would be better off in the long term if somebody took it away from them.

For a start it is all about maintaining the Petro Dollar, not stealing oil. But should Venezuela become a US vessel state their oil will go to US contractors like when they intervened in oil rich nations in the recent past!!

The US' motivation is pretty obvious, limiting Chinese or Russian influence in the region. Also Trump hates refugees, Venezuela produces tons of them.

So not helping the people of Venezuela as claimed in the OP. At least you are honest about US intentions being selfish.

As for refugees, perhaps the US should stop sanctioning nations with poverty to prevent the conditions to allow people to become refugees to being with. Only an idiot will believe this is only self harm as global banks hold a significant amount of money that could well solve the main issue they have by buying aid themselves.

Overall I'm pretty indifferent about this intervention. Maduro's rule is a disaster, but a violent transition won't necessarily improve on it. If the US (and almost all of SA) manage to make the junta go peacefully, the choice is clear though.

Intervention will cause civil war. Why? Because Maduro has support.

Until Venezuela truly reject Maduro there can be no solution to this. However whilst America stack the deck against Maduro he will have a degree of sympathy around the world - not because he is a good leader, but because America should stop being assholes.

[Heisenberg]

If you oppose the invasion of Iraq then you're defending Saddam Hussein. You're supporting him! You're an appeaser!


..............

Sound familiar???

Some left-wing posters here were denouncing the Neo-Con rhetoric such as that and now............employ it. Hypocrites! Shame on you!

Actually, if you call for intervention in other people's countries, you are an interventionist.

Since you aren't calling for intervention, these criticisms do not concern you. I'm certainly not one of Maduro's deluded acolytes, but I can see quite plainly what this intervention is about. John Rawls, on the other hand, is quite openly supporting the coup, so saying he's on the same side as Trump, Abrams and Bolton is hardly a smear.

[Beren]

I'm certainly not one of Maduro's deluded acolytes, but I can see quite plainly what this intervention is about.

This Trump-Bolsonaro-Bolton-Abrams intervention is clearly about liberating Venezuela and improving the situation there.

[Rugoz]

So fucking what? You think Venezuela is special because it is in the Americas?

Yes.

For a start it is all about maintaining the Petro Dollar, not stealing oil.

The importance of the petro dollar is a myth. It makes no economic sense, as I've explained many times already.

But should Venezuela become a US vessel state their oil will go to US contractors like when they intervened in oil rich nations in the recent past!!

In Iraq it did not. Here's a list of contractors:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum ... ng_results

As for refugees, perhaps the US should stop sanctioning nations with poverty to prevent the conditions to allow people to become refugees to being with.

Another myth refuted several times already (in the case of Venezuela).

Intervention will cause civil war. Why? Because Maduro has support.

A non-democratic regime can enforce its rule with the support of a small minority of the population, as long as it has more guns. The opposition would have to start a guerrilla warfare with weapons from a friendly foreign power. That's the way it was almost always done throughout history. If Maduro would head a right-wing regime, you would advocate exactly that. Or at least many of the left-wingers here would.

[JohnRawls]

Since you seem to know the answers to your questions, let me ask you something too. If there's nothing to gain there, what the hell do the Americans want in Venezuela then? Do you think Trump just wants to solve a problem? Are you even aware of any bit of Latin American history and US-Latin American relations?

I am aware. Although almost all of those intervention in the recent years were done during the cold war. It was a different time when the US didn't really have a choice besides to support pro-US scumbags. Now the situation is different because the USSR doesn't exist. It doesn't mean that the US has no security interests anymore. Now US can wait and choose actually instead of fighting this global war against the USSR.

US foreign policy was 99% about security during the cold war even to the point of heavily subsidising other countries so they won't join the USSR block of countries. The 3 foundation principles of that policy were:
1) Do not let any foreign power establish a foothold in the Northern/Southern/Central America.
2) Do not let anybody become a hegemony in Europe. Especially do not let Europe have free access to Russian resources.
3) Do not let anybody build ships in mass.

So if you view it in that context then they see this situation as an easy way to remove an anti-US regime who hosts foreign powers. This is inline with the US foreign policy actually.

Most people will say it is about oil though. Those people are stuck in 2000s-2007s. The situation is much, much different right now. If you look at the graph below then you will see Iraq war was when US was importing 10-12+ millions of barrels of oil. Now the US needs only 2.5 million barrels to import. (This graph is a bit outdated) That 2.5 can easily come from Canada that usually imported 3.6-4 mil of barrels. In 1-3 years US will not need foreign oil imports at all. So why would the US want the oil from Venezuela when they do not need it nor is it economically viable by US standards?

[Beren]

It's like a full capitalist Cold War, @JohnRawls. It's Cold War 2.

[B0ycey]

Yes.

Thanks for confirming that Venezuela is special.

So ask why is it special to you? *cough* oil.

Or do you think Latinos lives are more important than Black Africans? You need to explain this line of thinking.

The importance of the petro dollar is a myth. It makes no economic sense, as I've explained many times already.

Then you best explain again. As if excess Dollar entering a market is a good thing.

The Petro Dollar allows the US to spend with impunity as demand for Dollars always remain high. Take away that impunity and they are at risk of hyperinflation. But I don't expect you to understand this. You are a faux economist.

In Iraq it did not. Here's a list of contractors:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum ... ng_results

Whatever.

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/15/business/energy-environment/15iht-srerussia15.html

Bush literally forced allies to back him in Iraq on the promise they would get deals for their oil/drilling companies. Keep up with your US shilling and poor memory skills. Trump would be proud of such ignorance.

Another myth refuted several times already (in the case of Venezuela).

Myth?? Are you fuckin' serious? It is common knowledge that Venezuela have had their assets frozen by anyone who isn't living under a rock!!

One of many articles from Google to read up on your ignorance.

http://laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=2447436&CategoryId=10717

$3 billion dollars is a shit loads of aid FYI.

A non-democratic regime can enforce its rule with the support of a small minority of the population, as long as it has more guns. The opposition would have to start a guerrilla warfare with weapons from a friendly foreign power. That's the way it was almost always done throughout history. If Maduro would head a right-wing regime, you would advocate exactly that. Or at least many of the left-wingers here would.

Thanks for showing support for civil war. At least you are consistent.

[Rugoz]

The Petro Dollar allows the US to spend with impunity as demand for Dollars always remain high. Take away that impunity and they are at risk of hyperinflation. But I don't expect you to understand this. You are a faux economist.

Yep, with a faux degree from a faux university.

As for the rest of your "responses", not worth my time either.

[JohnRawls]

It's like a full capitalist Cold War, @JohnRawls. It's Cold War 2.

US is not planning to subsidise anybody anymore. There is no large threat like the USSR. So you can't really call it a Cold War if there is no other side to fight against the US. As much as the US sees it, it is just maintenance of their security policy that they do not know how to readjust. After the end of the Cold war and fall of the USSR US is stuck in a limbo of sorts of not knowing what to do with their sole superpower status. I don't know when the world had such a situation actually. I guess Rome? But Rome was also split on what to do after they became the sole superpower in the region either after they defeated the Carthaginians or Gauls...

[Beren]

US is not planning to subsidise anybody anymore. There is no large threat like the USSR. So you can't really call it a Cold War if there is no other side to fight against the US. As much as the US sees it, it is just maintenance of their security policy that they do not know how to readjust. After the end of the Cold war and fall of the USSR US is stuck in a limbo of sorts of not knowing what to do with their sole superpower status. I don't know when the world had such a situation actually. I guess Rome? But Rome was also split on what to do after they became the sole superpower in the region either after they defeated the Carthaginians or Gauls...

I thought you were a Fascist, but you're just totally clueless.

[Rich]

There are some posters here that, for various reasons, blame Israel and/or the Jews for about everything.
Some would like to see the Arabs destroy Israel and another one blames the Jews for the killing of some guy two thousand years ago.

The earliest Christians believed that Jesus was killed by demons, the rulers of the age, in the lower heavens, in ignorance of his true status. Paul a Jewish homosexual, who couldn't keep to the Jewish Law, invented the idea of Jesus being crucified, the supremely humilating death. A sado-macoschistic homosexual fantasy. Jesus was revealed to the proto Christians through reinterpretation of the Jewish scriptures both canonical and non canonical. Later Jesus started to make appearances to Christians from the highest Heaven. Then the earliest revelations started to be reinterpreted as appearances. Then people stated to give Jesus an earthly biography in which it was natural to presume that he had been crucified by the Romans. Its quite possible that the earliest creators of Jesus on Earth stories didn't believe in their literal truth.

Later still Jews started to eject Christians from the Synagogues. Jews refused to recognise Christians as Jews, hence Christians lost the Jews protected religious status, and had to engage in Emperor worship like everyone else on pain of death. Hence the Gospel versions of the many layered Jesus story, which seek to blame the Jews for Jesus's death, where the narrative of Jesus being killed by the Romans had already become established. It sought to portray Jesus as the true Messiah of the Jews, that Jesus was loyal to the Emperor, he was not a violent political revolutionary and that hence Jesus's followers were entitled to the protected religious status of Jews within the Empire. The further implication was that by killing Jesus, the Jews had lost their right to protected Jewish status within the Emperor.

[QatzelOk]

This Trump-Bolsonaro-Bolton-Abrams intervention is clearly about liberating Venezuela and improving the situation there.

You're not playing chess in as many dimensions as they are.

See, once Venezuela has been ruined by sanctions and terrorism, and the neighboring countries have been destroyed by blowback, millions of Latino refugees will seek refuge in North America.

This will give the people you mentioned an endless supply of inexpensive laborers, and it will destroy all organized states in South America - perfect for the IMF and CIA to clean up again.

Starving people living in violent misery.... commercial media will stop covering long before that happens.

[Beren]

Sure, @QatzelOk, they fuck up their own country too, although not as much as others.